17 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

It’s an argument, but they’re still worth the same. Had Hurts thrown 1 yard HB options to Barkley instead and ended up with the same TD total, they aren’t suddenly better TDs

Using the total stats feels cheap to beef up a players stats IMO

Nix throws a nice ball 

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Using the total stats feels cheap to beef up a players stats IMO

Or it destroys a faulty narrative.

1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

My bad. Yes the failing is mostly on Hurts' end. As earlier in the year we kept seeing the complaints about how many different head coaches and OCs he has had in his career since college. Truth is he transferred because he lost his starting job. And in the NFL everyone keeps calling for the firing of his coaches. 

As I said, hes not a good fit with any OC. He always looks subpar. And people blame the coaching. 

You become more shrill and less convincing with every passing day. Sorry to say. This latest broadside is too vague even to be discussed. It’s all opinion, based on well, nothing.

Just now, just relax said:

And my question remains, on what is this based? Is it production? Prettier passes? Profile? By the most basic of criteria Hurts has been better this year.

Style points do not outweigh production, IMHO.

I am not saying Hurts is better. I’m saying by what metric do you see Allen as better? Belief is a slim reed.

Yards,TDs, Comp%

Also the eye test

You can disagree with this and that's fine. Agree to disagree

Just now, jsb235 said:

Or it destroys a faulty narrative.

Fault how?

16 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Damn. Genuinely surprised. Hurts' is having a darn good season, and that's with AJ and Smitty missing time.

He's overshadowed by Barkley, but no shame in that.

Yeah, he’ll end with over 4000 total yards and close to 40 TDs again

Just now, Mike030270 said:

Fault how?

If you disregard facts because they don't fit your narrative, your narrative may be the problem. 

1 minute ago, jsb235 said:

If you disregard facts because they don't fit your narrative, your narrative may be the problem. 

Just so I understand your reply to my post... you think total stats defeats some faulty narrative towards stats?

That's confusing logic to me but okay

8 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Yards,TDs, Comp%

Also the eye test

You can disagree with this and that's fine. Agree to disagree

Doesn't Hurts have a better Comp%? by a good margin too.

50 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

When we had Mack Hollins did he dress like a cotton swab and walk around barefoot in the snow?

all he did here was ride his bicycle everywhere. 

11 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Using the total stats feels cheap to beef up a players stats IMO

As I said earlier, for RBs they cite rush & receiving yards separate, and cite all-purpose yards. Maybe that can be the way QB stats are shown. 

I guess it comes down to how much passing vs rushing matters. Do WR receiving yards count more than RB rushing yards? It's yards. If the objective is to gain yards and get in the endzone, does it matter how it's done?

If the QB throws a 2 yard basic screen pass, the RB does all the work and goes 70 yards for a TD that counts as a 70 yard TD pass for the QB. We don't split that out and not count the YAC in the QB stats.

14 minutes ago, just relax said:

You become more shrill and less convincing with every passing day. Sorry to say. This latest broadside is too vague even to be discussed. It’s all opinion, based on well, nothing.

Thats not possible. I havent been saying anything different than Ive been saying for months, or years now.

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Thats not possible. I havent been saying anything different than Ive been saying for months, or years now.

That’s true, though it does not make what you say true.

1 minute ago, just relax said:

That’s true, though it does not make what you say true.

Not the fact that Ive been saying it. No....

But it is true. 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

Not the fact that Ive been saying it. No....

But it is true. 

You and I have widely different views of what makes a good QB. Your truth is not mine nor mine yours.

48 minutes ago, NOTW said:

If the team passed down the field, then the RB ran in a TD from the 1, we would not put an asterisk on the TD.

RBs get credit for all purpose yards. QBs get credit on their pass yards that includes YAC that could be from a short screen or short slant.

The only time people want exceptions, dismiss certain stats or spin this way is to downplay rushing stats by a QB.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle. You just need to your own cotnext when interpreting stats.

Hurts overall TD numbers are slightly inflated given the system we run vs pretty much every other system which doesnt spam tush push at the goal line (conversely this means Saquon's TDs are deflated and to a lesser extent so are Hurts' passing TDs which a lot of Hurts haters cling on to). Does that mean you disreagrd those and Hurts shouln't get credit for those - of course not. He is the biggest reason that makes the Tush Push near automatic and that is why we run what we do at the goal line and it would be dumb not to run that play. 

But for a hypotethical scenerio to think about what would have happened if Tush Push had been banned, for arguments sake say to the 10 TDs Hurts will get this year from that play? Chances are we still get 8 - 9 of those TDs but the breakdown would probably be soemthing like (4-5 rushing for Barkley, 2-3 rushing to Hurts and maybe 2 or so end up as passing TDs instead). That's closer to the system you get with other teams from those opportunities.

As an aside, to me this is part of what makes it so impressive that Saquon has 11TDs this year. At least half of those have been him breaking long-runs as he isnt getting many rush TDs from inside the 5. His rushing total to me is way more impressive to me than Henry's 13 or Mixons 11. He doesnt really get the chance to get many easy TDs like other RBs do.

16 minutes ago, NOTW said:

As I said earlier, for RBs they cite rush & receiving yards separate, and cite all-purpose yards. Maybe that can be the way QB stats are shown. 

I guess it comes down to how much passing vs rushing matters. Do WR receiving yards count more than RB rushing yards? It's yards. If the objective is to gain yards and get in the endzone, does it matter how it's done?

If the QB throws a 2 yard basic screen pass, the RB does all the work and goes 70 yards for a TD that counts as a 70 yard TD pass for the QB. We don't split that out and not count the YAC in the QB stats.

It only recently became trendy for people to use total stats instead of separating them

If it doesn't matter then why combine them and not keep it separate? What was the point to combine them

10 minutes ago, just relax said:

You and I have widely different views of what makes a good QB. Your truth is not mine nor mine yours.

I have noticed.

It doesn't bother me if there are better QBs than Hurts in the league. It doesn't bother me to label Hurts a "game manager" this year. We're literally running 57% of the time right now so the passing volume doesn't really compare equally to a team that relies heavily on passing attempts. 

Our offense isn't designed to do those things that maybe someone like Burrow is doing. We run RPOs and have WRs and/or TEs that aren't part of the progressions. They are essentially decoys drawing defenders away, trying to create picks, or getting into position to block. They aren't even looking back for the ball in the case of a pass. It's a system built around our strengths and it may not appeal to every fan. But it is our identity and we are seeing success with the formula. It's also helping our defense stay rested and allowing them to play very well out there. 

So if anybody would rather root for Josh Allen or Joe Burrow, nobody is stopping them. But those two players aren't Eagles and they aren't going to be anytime soon. While Josh and Jalen have a lot of similarities, they also have differences. Josh is taller and has a bigger arm. He's also been more of a "gunslinger" until this season. But both he and Jalen are good and willing runners. They both entered the NFL with accuracy issues that they corrected early in their careers. They've also both been in the MVP conversation multiple times. They're both winners and good leaders. In 2023, players had voted Allen #8 on the top 100 players and Hurts #3. After last season, they had Allen #12 and Hurts #15. After this season, I predict Hurts will stay close to that #15 while Allen will probably move closer to #5. 

In the end, whether fans appreciate him or not Hurts is still one of the top players in the NFL according to his peers. He may not be your cup of tea, but he is a legit NFL QB on one of the best teams and he's a big part of the team's success. 

In the case of MVP, I'd give the edge to Barkley this season. Not because of Jalen's performance, but because Saquon is having that remarkable of a season as a RB. Unfortunately, when you have two MVP candidates (and Hurts is still one this season: Link) it's like two popular candidates from the same party splitting the vote. Hurts is having a very good season, but Barkley is having a very rare season for a RB. There's no shame in being in the conversation. 

Hurts is what he is, an above average QB.  He’s doing just fine with the O.  My biggest complaint at this point is play calling.  I’m sick of all curls, or all routes short of the sticks on 3rd.  It’s like after the scripted portion that there is little to no motion.  Play calls seem to be coming in late and there’s a scramble at the LOS to get set.  It’s almost like there’s no plan for intermediate or long downs.  Etc etc.  I just don’t get how sometimes Siri and Moore seem brilliant and then others you wonder if they’ve ever coached before.

Siri, for sure has the locker room…but whether or not it was meant as a compliment to Roquan…this is the second time this year lane has said something.  I’m loving that we are winning and winning convincingly, but i think for a lot there’s still that lingering stench of what happened last year and it’s been happening since Siri got here that there’s long periods of incompetence from the O.  Thankfully now we have Saquon and a top 5 D to carry during those times.  The ‘it doesn’t matter, we are winning’ feels a lot different this year.  I’ll say that.

2 hours ago, justwinbaby said:

Why? Would you prefer that Hurts played the worst in the 4th quarter? I swear you all don't care that all the dude does is win. You'd rather lose than have Hurts as QB. It's real weird 

Or I'm tired of people crowning a dude as some amazing QB when he can't even be trusted to throw more than 20 times a game

Jeudy becoming the villain in this game is fantastic tv. 

1 hour ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Yeah, he’ll end with over 4000 total yards and close to 40 TDs again

Dont give me the "total” nonsense. Hows the yards and passing tds?

47 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

The truth is always somewhere in the middle. You just need to your own cotnext when interpreting stats.

Hurts overall TD numbers are slightly inflated given the system we run vs pretty much every other system which doesnt spam tush push at the goal line (conversely this means Saquon's TDs are deflated and to a lesser extent so are Hurts' passing TDs which a lot of Hurts haters cling on to). Does that mean you disreagrd those and Hurts shouln't get credit for those - of course not. He is the biggest reason that makes the Tush Push near automatic and that is why we run what we do at the goal line and it would be dumb not to run that play. 

But for a hypotethical scenerio to think about what would have happened if Tush Push had been banned, for arguments sake say to the 10 TDs Hurts will get this year from that play? Chances are we still get 8 - 9 of those TDs but the breakdown would probably be soemthing like (4-5 rushing for Barkley, 2-3 rushing to Hurts and maybe 2 or so end up as passing TDs instead). That's closer to the system you get with other teams from those opportunities.

As an aside, to me this is part of what makes it so impressive that Saquon has 11TDs this year. At least half of those have been him breaking long-runs as he isnt getting many rush TDs from inside the 5. His rushing total to me is way more impressive to me than Henry's 13 or Mixons 11. He doesnt really get the chance to get many easy TDs like other RBs do.

If this were true then why did we have a QB sneak success rate that was basically the same with wentz? We've always been good at sneaks because we've always had a great line. 

The success of that play starts with the line, and they are by far the biggest reason for its success.