27 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

You have no idea if, and to what degree the Eagles are dumbing down their offense or to the degree other teams are.

Well, let's look at the facts:

The passing game in large hasn't been great since he's been the starter for the most part. It's looked very, very similar despite the number of coaching changes we've gone through. 

There are two consistent pieces over the years: Hurts and Sirianni.

At the very least Sirianni has shown to be willing to change up his offense and run the ball more. I have a hard time believing that Lurie would be willing to let Sirianni continue to run out the same stale passing attack week after week, year after year if he was the problem 

That leads to the problem being Hurts. No amount of scheming will matter, because even the same "basic" passing attack that he's had for years now is still too difficult for him to make throws when he has someone wide open. On some plays, there are multiple.

We can blame the coaching staff all we want, but at the end of the day they're handcuffed to a QB who's gimping the offense

7 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I see it on eagles facebook groups a lot. Can't criticize Hurts while we're winning. He's got such and such rating and hasn't turned the ball over. He didn't have Brown and Smith throughout the year. Oline isn't protecting. Receivers aren't getting open

When Brown is so pissed he is throwing his helmet it tells us all we need to know. 

There's no good reason Hurts is tied for 6th most sacked QB this year with a top 3 ranked o-line. 

3 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

 

 

Yes.  That is point of consistency.  One good rep, one bad rep is not consistent.  You can't trust that.  As to the stats you posted with time to throw, I suspect that the RPO skews that with the time taken to make the read and make the decision to pass.

I am not saying Hurts doesn't share blame.  He absolutely should have hit that pass to AJ.  No excuses.  

What I am saying that the criticism that it is all Hurts fault is extremely myopic.  He needs to play better period.  The coaches have to scheme better, the OL needs to block better.  All can be true.

1 minute ago, Swoop said:

Well, let's look at the facts:

The passing game in large hasn't been great since he's been the starter for the most part. It's looked very, very similar despite the number of coaching changes we've gone through. 

There are two consistent pieces over the years: Hurts and Sirianni.

At the very least Sirianni has shown to be willing to change up his offense and run the ball more. I have a hard time believing the Lurie would be willing to let Sirianni continue to run out the same stale passing attack week after week, year after year of he was the problem 

That leads to the problem being Hurts. No amount of scheming will matter, because even the same "basic" passing attack that he's had for years now is still too difficult for him to make throws when he has someone wide open. On some plays, there are multiple.

We can blame the coaching staff all we want, but at the end of the day they're handcuffed to a QB who's gimping the offense

There are plenty of counters to this logic though. Hurts was here since 2020. They got 3 years to study him in multiple offensive schemes before they signed him to that deal. Under Doug and Sirianni and then Steichen/Sirianni. If they truly believed as an organization he was that limited, why would they pay him that mega contract? They clearly didn't believe that when they signed him.

I really don't think football works that way where you go ok, this guy was here and this guy wasn't, therefore it has to be that guy who's the problem. There are so many other factors. And this doesn't explain why the passing offense was really good in 2022.

Maybe Hurts isn't a great passing QB and Kellen Moore is doing a poor job on the offensive side of the ball? Their passing offense was better last season by every metric. It's gotten worse 2 years in a row and they have 3 different coordinators. So from that perspective, there isn't one constant. Maybe the coordinators have something to do with it after all. Or maybe it has nothing to do with Moore and Sirianni still has a lot of influence. Or maybe it's some combination of those factors. I'm not even the biggest Hurts fan, but putting this 100% on him is something I find totally unfair.

6 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

When Brown is so pissed he is throwing his helmet it tells us all we need to know. 

Eh. He's been vocal before and they ended up just forcing the ball to him to keep him happy. Smith on the other hand is different since he always seemed like the quiet type that just does his job

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

There are plenty of counters to this logic though. Hurts was here since 2020. They got 3 years to study him in multiple offensive schemes before they signed him to that deal. Under Doug and Sirianni and then Steichen/Sirianni. If they truly believed as an organization he was that limited, why would they pay him that mega contract? They clearly didn't believe that when they signed him.

I really don't think football works that way where you go ok, this guy was here and this guy wasn't, therefore it has to be that guy who's the problem. There are so many other factors. And this doesn't explain why the passing offense was really good in 2022.

Maybe Hurts isn't a great passing QB and Kellen Moore is doing a poor job on the offensive side of the ball? Their passing offense was better last season by every metric. It's gotten worse 2 years in a row and they have 3 different coordinators. So from that perspective, there isn't one constant. Maybe the coordinators have something to do with it after all. Or maybe it has nothing to do with Moore and Sirianni still has a lot of influence. Or maybe it's some combination of those factors. I'm not even the biggest Hurts fan, but putting this 100% on him is something I find totally unfair.

Howie pays for potential. He's always done that. That's why his contracts are always looked at as deals after the market hits. It's also why he's got a couple of really bad contracts

This guy is so insanely good for a rookie

 

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Eh. He's been vocal before and they ended up just forcing the ball to him to keep him happy. Smith on the other hand is different since he always seemed like the quiet type that just does his job

This. Smitty speaking out says WAY more than AJ being disgruntled.

3 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

You have no idea if, and to what degree the Eagles are dumbing down their offense or to the degree other teams are.

This idea that some offenses are running super complex passing schemes isn't real.  I think the offense the Eagles run is not substantially different than other teams.  The question is calling plays that Hurts can better execute or coaching him to throw the damn ball.  

15 minutes ago, Cliftoma said:

Yeah Idk that is the best play to criticize.  The WRs ran into each other at the start of the play.  By the time they are open, the protection has broken down and Hurts is running for his life.  Now, if he had a protection then I understand the criticism.

I think the argument is whether he needed to move in the pocket as much as he did. He hopped back an extra step in his dropback.  He has a clean pocket at the 8 second mark. Because he hops back that extra step Mailata's guy comes free and Lane's guy also seems to have a line on him, he could have thrown the ball at that point but he tries to avoid the pressure.   Rather than just step up a small step, he steps up into pressure and has to escape. He has no chance to throw the ball.    Arguably, he didn't need to step up at all and could have delivered the pass. 

5 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Their passing offense was better last season by every metric. It's gotten worse 2 years in a row and they have 3 different coordinators. So from that perspective, there isn't one constant

There is, though.

Jalen Hurts

FWIW, I didn't perceive AJ's comments as being directed at Jalen. It felt more like an overall comment, and if anything directed at coaching. Jalen also seemed to cut his PC short. Feels like they all want it opened up a little more. But I don't think there are issues among Jalen, AJ and Smitty.

Big week for Nick and Kellen. They are going to come out targeting AJ and Smitty early against Pittsburgh I bet.

Just now, Swoop said:

There is, though.

Jalen Hurts

Nick Sirianni

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

This guy is so insanely good for a rookie

 

It's clearly rigged if he doesn't get all pro

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

Nick Sirianni

So Lurie is going to allow Sirianni to continue to run out a passing game that clearly isn't working season after season?

I doubt it.

As it is, the plays are there to be had. Repeatedly. Someone keeps missing them though.

Is that also Sirianni?

1 minute ago, Mike030270 said:

It's clearly rigged if he doesn't get all pro

It's going to be hard given (i) he's a rookie and (ii) he has no picks. I know Sauce was all-pro as a rookie, but NY bias with the media helped him. I think he has a better chance to be an all-pro than a pro bowler since most fans don't know his name due to the lack of picks. 

1 minute ago, Swoop said:

There is, though.

Jalen Hurts

Sirianni is a constant.

Again, if Hurts can't run a functional passing offense, why was it really good in 2022? All I know is since Steichen left it hasn't been the same, but no one wants to acknowledge the possibility that he was just really good and maybe the two OCs since simply aren't that good. And Hurts isn't playing well enough on top of it.

34 minutes ago, Cliftoma said:

Yes. They haven't been good in pass protection.  Free rushers coming up the A gap is not being consistent.  The communication especially between OG and C has not been what it should be.  We see it multiple times a game.  

The protection was there. They may have made some mistakes but Hurts having 3+ seconds on average no pressure and almost 3.5 time to throw is a lifetime. You can’t ask any more out of pass protection when you’re holding the ball that long.

Just now, Sack that QB said:

Sirianni is a constant.

Again, if Hurts can't run a functional passing offense, why was it really good in 2022? All I know is since Steichen left it hasn't been the same, but no one wants to acknowledge the possibility that he was just really good and maybe the two OCs since simply aren't that good. And Hurts isn't playing well enough on top of it.

Again, the plays are there to be had. Sirianni can't also throw the football for Hurts. 

A lot of players can have a flukey good year. It happens all of the time. Look at Sam Darnold.

I'm not saying he's the only one to blame, but IMO he's far and away the main culprit.

Just now, Sack that QB said:

Sirianni is a constant.

Again, if Hurts can't run a functional passing offense, why was it really good in 2022? All I know is since Steichen left it hasn't been the same, but no one wants to acknowledge the possibility that he was just really good and maybe the two OCs since simply aren't that good. And Hurts isn't playing well enough on top of it.

So, you're saying Dak propped up a subpar OC for years in DAL and turned pee into champagne to create a top5 offense every season??

Who knew Dak was underpaid ........ ??

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The protection was there. They may have made some mistakes but Hurts having 3+ seconds on average no pressure and almost 3.5 time to throw is a lifetime. You can’t ask any more out of pass protection when you’re holding the ball that long.

Hurts could go 0/47 with 30 picks and it would never be his fault.

I get that some of us are might be more harsh than need be, but the amount of defenders running to this guy's side is ridiculous. Wentz was dragged through the mud for not playing great with Paul Fing Turner and Dorial Green Beckham.

Hurts has an all pro caliber player at almost every position on offense and he still has every excuse in the book made for him.

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

It's going to be hard given (i) he's a rookie and (ii) he has no picks. I know Sauce was all-pro as a rookie, but NY bias with the media helped him. I think he has a better chance to be an all-pro than a pro bowler since most fans don't know his name due to the lack of picks. 

Yea I doubt he gets pro bowl because majority wont hear his name to vote but since all pro isn't done by fans he should get in

10 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Hurts could go 0/47 with 30 picks and it would never be his fault.

I get that some of us are might be more harsh than need be, but the amount of defenders running to this guy's side is ridiculous. Wentz was dragged through the mud for not playing great with Paul Fing Turner and Dorial Green Beckham.

Hurts has an all pro caliber player at almost every position on offense and he still has every excuse in the book made for him.

I'm going to upset and trigger some but Wentz would have crazy stats with this team (pre Clowney and Hurts)

21 minutes ago, Cliftoma said:

Yes.  That is point of consistency.  One good rep, one bad rep is not consistent.  You can't trust that.  As to the stats you posted with time to throw, I suspect that the RPO skews that with the time taken to make the read and make the decision to pass.

I am not saying Hurts doesn't share blame.  He absolutely should have hit that pass to AJ.  No excuses.  

What I am saying that the criticism that it is all Hurts fault is extremely myopic.  He needs to play better period.  The coaches have to scheme better, the OL needs to block better.  All can be true.

That should work the opposite way.  RPO throws are supposed to be really fast, because the OL is run blocking and heading down field.  So, a slow RPO is a bad QB rep.