11 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Also, the Cowboys have gotten two decades very good QB play without investing any real draft capital at the position.  Romo was a UDFA and Dak was taken in the fourth round.

Wasted opportunity.

 

Or... they overvalued what they had at QB and didn't actually have 'very good' QB play, but 'above average' QB play with a limited ceiling that couldn't maintain that level of play in the biggest moments.  OR... they asked them to do too much and overvalued/overpaid them.  

They needed to treat them more like Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens, but instead treated them like Kirk Cousins with the Vikings and tried to build around them, rather than building around the OL and running game and defense.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Or... they overvalued what they had at QB and didn't actually have 'very good' QB play, but above average QB play with a limited ceiling that couldn't maintain that level of play in the biggest moments.  OR... they asked them to do too much and overvalued/overpaid them.  

Dak had a team with 9 all-pros last year (8 other than him). 3 offensive lineman (Smith, Smith and Martin), a WR (Lamb), an Edge (Micah), CB (Bland), and the K and P. And every single one of those guys was homegrown -- amazing drafting/scouting. And...they got shellacked in round 1. Furthermore, they basically couldn't beat a good team last year and just pounded bad teams. Their wins against playoff teams -- Rams (who were 3-4 going into that game, Eagles (who were in freefall), and the Lions (a game given to them by the refs). Teams like SF, Buffalo and Miami clobbered them on the ground.

Paying Dak $60mm/year after he couldn't win with that team was a massive mistake. And then not adding to that team to try and get over the top was an even bigger mistake. I was actually worried Jerry was going to be smart, let Dak walk, and try and get a new QB with all that talent and have a bunch of 2025 cap space. Instead he did the dumbest thing possible.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

They needed to treat them more like Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens, but instead treated them like Kirk Cousins with the Vikings and tried to build around them, rather than building around the OL and running game and defense.

This is especially true when it was Romo behind center. Dak has been given a lot more to work with than Romo really had at any one given time. Romo made some bone headed plays but he was a better competitor in my opinion and a lot more fun to watch. The lack of defense when he played was just pathetic. I hate listening to him now in the booth, he gives good insight but his delivery just sucks...to me anyway.  

Just two and a half decades of "what if?". I knew they would struggle this year, I just didn't think they would collapse the way they have, and worse they have committed to two players more than necessary for the future.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Dak had a team with 9 all-pros last year (8 other than him). 3 offensive lineman (Smith, Smith and Martin), a WR (Lamb), an Edge (Micah), CB (Bland), and the K and P. And every single one of those guys was homegrown -- amazing drafting/scouting. And...they got shellacked in round 1. Furthermore, they basically couldn't beat a good team last year and just pounded bad teams. Their wins against playoff teams -- Rams (who were 3-4 going into that game, Eagles (who were in freefall), and the Lions (a game given to them by the refs). Teams like SF, Buffalo and Miami clobbered them on the ground.

Paying Dak $60mm/year after he couldn't win with that team was a massive mistake. And then not adding to that team to try and get over the top was an even bigger mistake. I was actually worried Jerry was going to be smart, let Dak walk, and try and get a new QB with all that talent and have a bunch of 2025 cap space. Instead he did the dumbest thing possible.

Bad coaching, bad scheme to build around Dak.

@Joe Ball

I know you've been there for a while, but are other Cowboys' fans finally realizing that Jerry isn't serious about winning? 

Or said another way, Jerry only wants to win HIS way. With a team of all home grown players, so he can prove to everyone that he really is a great scout and team builder. Because he is still butthurt that Jimmy Johnson got all the credit for the 1990s dynasty. It's basically Jerry's childish ego that holds the organization back.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

bad scheme

Read an article yesterday that called the McC offense antiquated...that doesn't even begin to describe it, it's much worse than that. Add in the stupid gambler approach at critical points of the game, taking points off the board, fake punts on your own end of the field, etc...the number of penalties, just ridiculous.

Then you have Jerry giving interviews saying the absolute one thing he doesn't question is the effort...really? Maybe Monday - Friday, but what about game day when they get down...they lay down. EVERYONE can see it, F'ing blind old man.

2 minutes ago, Joe Ball said:

Read an article yesterday that called the McC offense antiquated...that doesn't even begin to describe it, it's much worse than that. Add in the stupid gambler approach at critical points of the game, taking points off the board, fake punts on your own end of the field, etc...the number of penalties, just ridiculous.

Then you have Jerry giving interviews saying the absolute one thing he doesn't question is the effort...really? Maybe Monday - Friday, but what about game day when they get down...they lay down. EVERYONE can see it, F'ing blind old man.

He also doesn't think being blinded by the sun is a problem on game days.

 

Just put the driver back in the golf bag.

 

1 hour ago, just relax said:

After Larry Allen.

Yep, Allen is certainly in the top five of Gs I have seen.   Martin is top fifteen because his technique is so good.   Got to look at the time when looking at Gs though. Mike Munchak, whose technique was top five would be a midget today.  Same with Gene Upshaw, who was a beast.  They were edge sized. 260ish lbs.  Then along comes Larry Allen and that just changed the interior line approach. How could a man that big be so nimble?  Allen was so consistent.  And he could not be moved.  I believe Allen could have single teamed Jordan Davis.   

2 hours ago, BigEFly said:

McCarthy has to be fired.  The team has absolutely quit on him.   

I think his contract expires after this year. He just won’t be retained obviously. 

I grabbed this from Warren Sharp.

Because of Hurts' scrambling, we are going to be seeing lots of zone.  Have to figure out how to be more successful against it.

1 hour ago, Wentz_Era said:

I’m trying to think of a way to word this without diminishing how absolutely good he is…Martin is def not a unicorn.  He’s got plus athletic and physical attributes, but at the end of the day he’s just an amazing football player from a technique, consistency, and IQ standpoint.  Which is what I hope Dickerson continues to develop into.  I remember we flamed the Turds a bit for the pick…but he might have been the ‘smartest’ draft pick Jerry has had in 20 years.   I’m curious a couple years after he calls it quits how the HOF voters will treat him. 

Whereas Allen was a complete physical freak who happened to also be very good at football too lol.

Martin’s  2017 was phenomenal.  Not a single penalty. That should get him in.  Ironically, he wasn’t an All Pro that season but he has a bunch of those too.

9 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

 

Joe gonna be an Eagles consultant soon....

5 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Yep, Allen is certainly in the top five of Gs I have seen.   Martin is top fifteen because his technique is so good.   Got to look at the time when looking at Gs though. Mike Munchak, whose technique was top five would be a midget today.  Same with Gene Upshaw, who was a beast.  They were edge sized. 260ish lbs.  Then along comes Larry Allen and that just changed the interior line approach. How could a man that big be so nimble?  Allen was so consistent.  And he could not be moved.  I believe Allen could have single teamed Jordan Davis.   

Don't forget Nate Newton and his pick up full of the sticky. 

4 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Yep, Allen is certainly in the top five of Gs I have seen.   Martin is top fifteen because his technique is so good.   Got to look at the time when looking at Gs though. Mike Munchak, whose technique was top five would be a midget today.  Same with Gene Upshaw, who was a beast.  They were edge sized. 260ish lbs.  Then along comes Larry Allen and that just changed the interior line approach. How could a man that big be so nimble?  Allen was so consistent.  And he could not be moved.  I believe Allen could have single teamed Jordan Davis.   

Where do you guys put Shawn Andrews at his peak in the OG conversation?

11 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

 

Come home

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

@Joe Ball

I know you've been there for a while, but are other Cowboys' fans finally realizing that Jerry isn't serious about winning? 

Or said another way, Jerry only wants to win HIS way. With a team of all home grown players, so he can prove to everyone that he really is a great scout and team builder. Because he is still butthurt that Jimmy Johnson got all the credit for the 1990s dynasty. It's basically Jerry's childish ego that holds the organization back.

I really don't know, half of them maybe. I only talk about the Cowboys with my 23yr old son and one of my nephews who coaches, (three of my nephews coach HS football for different teams, one is a HC, the others are OC, and DC), and of course I talk here with you guys, I am not a member of any other pro football forums, I do read Reddit occasionally for the memes. The main reason is because most fans cannot be objective.

I do not like talking about the Cowboys with other Cowboy fans, I would say half know and understand what holds them back, the other half don't really know the ins and outs of what it takes to have a successful organization, primarily at the FO level. They just see whats on TV, in the news, and what DAL did decades ago, and they hang on to that for some crazy reason.

I would say that we (my family) all agree that Jerry does hold back the organization significantly, and yes, ego is the main cuplrit. I think we are all resigned to the fact that things will not change until he is gone. The way you stated it is very accurate, I think up until the last couple of years it was really a "I'm going to show Jimmy Jump Up I can win without him" approach, now I think it is all about money and just him being stubborn. When Will McClay leaves they are really screwed, that dude can evaluate talent.

 

1 minute ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Where do you guys put Shawn Andrews at his peak in the OG conversation?

At his peak, I'd put Andrews a shade under Allen, but above nearly all the other guards of his era.  Shame it all ended so soon.

31 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Dak had a team with 9 all-pros last year (8 other than him). 3 offensive lineman (Smith, Smith and Martin), a WR (Lamb), an Edge (Micah), CB (Bland), and the K and P. And every single one of those guys was homegrown -- amazing drafting/scouting. And...they got shellacked in round 1. Furthermore, they basically couldn't beat a good team last year and just pounded bad teams. Their wins against playoff teams -- Rams (who were 3-4 going into that game, Eagles (who were in freefall), and the Lions (a game given to them by the refs). Teams like SF, Buffalo and Miami clobbered them on the ground.

Paying Dak $60mm/year after he couldn't win with that team was a massive mistake. And then not adding to that team to try and get over the top was an even bigger mistake. I was actually worried Jerry was going to be smart, let Dak walk, and try and get a new QB with all that talent and have a bunch of 2025 cap space. Instead he did the dumbest thing possible.

Didn't Romo have some stacked teams too and not do anything with it?

1 hour ago, Joe Ball said:

yeh, that was crazy. the special teams coach was very, very lucky. fractured cervical vertebrae (not sure what number) without paralysis...i think he ended up not able turn his head side to side though...at least without turning his shoulders.

Yeah, I know all about his medical condition but privacy and mediation rules limit what I can say.  Had a metal cross member come down on him.  DeCamillis. He’s had several jobs in the NFL as ST coordinator.  Think he’s at the college level these days.  Kind of thought he was mediocre in the NFL.  

6 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I grabbed this from Warren Sharp.

Because of Hurts' scrambling, we are going to be seeing lots of zone.  Have to figure out how to be more successful against it.

The Eagles just need to keep pounding the rock and playing defense, creating TOs, you don't have to be top 10 DVOA to win when you control the game and the clock, complimentary offense is enough. key conversions and execution at critical points on the game.

Joe coming back?

Speaking of fired GMs we need to have a conversation about Elton Brand and Daryl Morey.