10 hours ago, NOTW said:

That's fine but the media commonly use W/L for QBs, yet some here get mad when a few people point to Hurts wins. If Hurts had a losing record it would be posted here constantly by people criticizing him.

W/L is a perfectly fine metric to use to critique a QB, at the end of the day stats are typically subjective and have lots of factors that play into them.  The more you have at your disposal, the better picture you can form.  Imagine trying to explain ice cream to someone who’s never had it and you tell them there’s only 3 flavors, vanilla/chocolate/strawberry.

The coach and the QB have more impact on the outcome of the game than anyone else (except for the refs the past few years).  Is there statistical outliers?  Anomalies?  Yes, look at Burrow this year.

Right now the stat that helps hurts is winning…he’s playing like trash, but he’s still winning.  It’s really one of the few things left that the blind defenders have to combat criticism.

2 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Whats the qb sneak success rate?

I think it's still close to 90% this season. 

5 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

Just like they always give the MVP to a QB, they'll give DPOY to whoever has the most sacks.  Seems that way.

29 minutes ago, just relax said:

Alone modifies who in your original post. Grammar 1.

Sure, the adjective can adjust the noun.

That's why I clarified what I meant and said I could've worded it better initially.

You know this, but you're going to argue it anyway.

33 minutes ago, KINGnabb said:

When people say 'Wins aren't a QB Stat', I'm like since when?  All QB's are judged off if their winning or losing.    Same with Coaches.   If Jalen had a terrible record, fans would be ready to run him out of town and replace him.   Remember in 2021 and Eagles started 2-5? People were questioning if Jalen was the right choice or not.  Yet somehow in his 4 years starting, he's had one of the best winning runs in Eagles History. 4 Straight playoff berths, soon to be two Division Titles (Should have been 3 in row). 

This is up there with the Donovan/Andy years as far as consistently having winning seasons.   He's already surpassed Regular Season win totals of Vick, Foles and Carson. He's also surpassed playoff  win totals of Vick and Carson.   Only Donovan, Jaws and Randall has won more games in an Eagles jersey then Jalen in the Super Bowl Era.  He's already in historic company in this franchise.  Oh yeah, he went to the Bowl in his 3rd year with with us which was faster than Donovan and Jaws who made it later.  The Team is doing historical things never done in Eagles history and winning and he shouldn't get credit being the QB? 

He gets SOME of the credit.  He's not doing it alone.  Football is the ultimate team sport.   He doesn't get all the credit, he doesn't get all the blame.  Context is key.  Take each situation separately and treat it individually.  The buck stops with the HC, but when it comes to players and the credit given, it is much more nuanced because there's so many responsibilities.

QBs already get more credit than they deserve in terms of the size of their paycheck.  It's out of hand.   Yes, it is a critical position, easily arguable as the most critical, but not the ONLY position.  And not the only critical one.

Recall 2002.  McNabb gets hurt, and misses the last 5 or 6 games of the regular season.   Feeley takes over at QB and the TEAM goes 4-1 or 5-1 in that stretch.   Was it Feeley or was it the rest of the team elevating their game in McNabb's absence to keep the ship afloat?

And when we look at the most recent Super Bowl, Hurts gets some blame for the loss due to the unforced fumble.  (That particular play is frankly inexcusable.  No reason to just drop the ball untouched.)  The defense also gets a lot of blame for how they played in the second half.  The players get blame, and even more so Gannon.  Gannon got pantsed by Reid in the second half with those motions at the goal line leading to easy TDs.  But, the loss of the Super Bowl doesn't go purely on to the shoulders of Hurts, nor do all the wins leading up to it.  TEAM game.

The QB record is a fine thing to keep track of, but when we lose sight of the fact that he's on the field with 10 others at a time, and he never steps foot on the field for defense or ST... its very disingenuous.  It's a basic stat that misleads folks into what is really happening.  Or, the Ravens were morons to move on from Trent Dilfer, after all, HE won a Super Bowl.  The rest of the team was just going along for the ride, I guess.

25 minutes ago, just relax said:

Alone modifies who in your original post. Grammar 1.

Apologies for getting involved, but I have to go with Swoop on this one.

In the original "And who has orchestrated the overwhelming majority of wins this season alone? ",  'alone' immediately follows 'this season'.  To have 'alone' reach all the way back to 'who' is a stretch considering that 'this <time period> alone' is a commonly used phrase.

If he had written "And who alone has orchestrated the overwhelming majority of wins this season?", then alone would clearly be modifying the subject.

Shake hands and move onto the Steelers.

2 hours ago, just relax said:

True enough. I'm trapped in a world where language means what it says, on any level, including the next one.

45 minutes ago, just relax said:

Alone modifies who in your original post. Grammar 1.

17 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Just like they always give the MVP to a QB, they'll give DPOY to whoever has the most sacks.  Seems that way.

More than likely 

10 hours ago, NOTW said:

I never said "it's fine" I said let go of bringing it up constantly because a lot of QB contracts are ridiculous. Just an opinion that it's a tired point.

Nearly all of them these days, and they just keep getting crazier.

10 hours ago, NOTW said:

I never said "it's fine" I said let go of bringing it up constantly because a lot of QB contracts are ridiculous. Just an opinion that it's a tired point.

It's terrible

2 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Whats the qb sneak success rate?

~85% on 4th and 1

https://sports.sites.yale.edu/success-short-yardage-play-types-fourth-down

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/evolution-of-the-qb-sneak-how-we-got-here-and-what-history-tells-us-about-the-tush-pushs-future-in-the-nfl/#:~:text=Quarterback sneaks have been successful,the time in those situations.

17 hours ago, Sack that QB said:

Hurts' quick pressure % is only 3.7% of his drop backs, but his throwaway % is 9.2%. That's a higher throwaway % than QBs in the NFL who have a far bigger quick pressure rate than him. And a higher sack rate than most of the QBs.

Half of his throwaways and sacks last Sunday were on runs.

17 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Apologies for getting involved, but I have to go with Swoop on this one.

In the original "And who has orchestrated the overwhelming majority of wins this season alone? ",  'alone' immediately follows 'this season'.  To have 'alone' reach all the way back to 'who' is a stretch considering that 'this <time period> alone' is a commonly used phrase.

If he had written "And who alone has orchestrated the overwhelming majority of wins this season?", then alone would clearly be modifying the subject.

Shake hands and move onto the Steelers.

That would make sense if Barkley were here for more than just this season. We all know this has been Barkley's only season on the team, so it's redundant to add the "alone" modifier if he meant to say he was referring to only the 2024 season. 

3 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Half of his throwaways and sacks last Sunday were on runs.

On designed runs? Huh? Do you mean scrambles?

28 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Sure, the adjective can adjust the noun.

That's why I clarified what I meant and said I could've worded it better initially.

You know this, but you're going to argue it anyway.

Rather that than the endless circle jerk about Hurts.

So yeah. Anything but that.

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Exactly as the textbook defines it.  You presented only two extreme options as the only ones that exist.  It's not true.

 

You don't have to be happy with the current play of Hurts or be happy with great passing stats without winning.  In fact, I would challenge you to find a single qb in the history of the league with 5000 yards passing and 40 Tds that ever won only 3 or 4 games.  Qbs that do that generally end up in the playoffs, and are often in the MVP conversation.

 

It is a fair assessment to say that Hurts current level of play (over the last 2 games, primarily) isn't good enough.  And it's not a hater thing to say.  Some of the guys he's playing with are frustrated, too.  He's not playing awful, but he's not playing well enough.  The current offensive Achilles heel is when they are forced to pass the ball to come back.  So far this year, they haven't found themselves in that situation very often.  It's only happened twice so far... the very end of the Atlanta game, which ended with an INT, and the Bucs game.  Every other game they were able to continue to lean on the running game to dig them out of trouble. For example, the New Orleans game, where they found themselves trailing, but got the big run from Barkley to take the lead.  Even against Baltimore, they were down 2 scores early, but stuck with the run and got the W because they were able to punch out Tds rather than FGs and the defense didn't let Baltimore continue to score.

Right now, the team is getting by with a really strong defense keeping the games close at all times to allow the running game to carry them.  But if they got into a shoot out like the Bills Rams game the other night, you honestly can't say that based on what we've seen recently that this team could keep pace in a game like that.  It would be extremely out of character for this team.

I’m not sure how you read all this into what I was saying. 
 

I was simply stating that wins - without question - are always regarded as an important stat for QB’s and the further you go into playoff wins, conference championship wins and ultimately Super Bowl wins the more important they become. 

3 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Whats the qb sneak success rate?

It’s not 90% from a full yard or more out. 

10 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

That would make sense if Barkley were here for more than just this season. We all know this has been Barkley's only season on the team, so it's redundant to add the "alone" modifier if he meant to say he was referring to only the 2024 season. 

Although he is clearly implying Barkley, the question is properly constructed for a reader that may not be aware that there are players other than Hurts that contribute to victories.  RTK?

20 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

~85% on 4th and 1

https://sports.sites.yale.edu/success-short-yardage-play-types-fourth-down

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/evolution-of-the-qb-sneak-how-we-got-here-and-what-history-tells-us-about-the-tush-pushs-future-in-the-nfl/#:~:text=Quarterback sneaks have been successful,the time in those situations.

From your article - thanks for proving my point:

 

 

3 hours ago, bpac55 said:

There are only 2 games right? You've really lost yourself if you think you need over 20 people for 2 games. 

 

 

Bargatze is awesome. He can recite names in a phonebook and make it funny.

24 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Half of his throwaways and sacks last Sunday were on runs.

I think it was only one sack that looked like a potential run.  

7 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

Some would take Hurts over Stafford (at his current age) and possibly Goff who’s bottom is 5 interceptions in one game (yes that’s happened)

 There’s a reason Darnold has been a journeyman throughout his career. 

Dak Prescott? 10+ win seasons and one and done in the playoffs.  

 

Love is still young and a work in progress but as up and down as he has been, he makes Hurts look consistent.   He would have been ripped by most Philly fans because he’s hot and cold  - much more than even Hurts is 

Mayfield has played really well over the course of the last two seasons but I don’t think most would take him over Hurts.
 

Daniels - the kid looks good but too early to tell.

 

The AFC is another story and Mahomes, Allen, Jackson are special talents.   Burrow and Herbert are just below them. 
 

As far as Stroud goes - like Daniels, too early to tell.

 

So at best you have 5 QB’s you would take over Hurts at this point and another 2-3 "maybes”   That would place Hurts in the top 10.

 

 

 

 

 

No, anyone who wants to win would take any if them over Hurts right now. He is not top 10 anymore outside of fans.