21 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think the deep shots are actually there.  It’s the crossing routes and intermediate stuff we are missing.  

We utilize a short passing game where the ball doesn’t reach the sticks and a deep passing game (exclusively along the sidelines).  It’s everything else that’s missing.  

Id have to imagine an honest target and completion heat map for this offense looks like a U.  

 

Jalen was continuously throwing and completing to the middle of the field against Baltimore. 

4 hours ago, NOTW said:

 

 

Now he’s talking like Jimmy?

 

"George likes spicy chicken”

3 hours ago, Sack that QB said:

The NFL in the offseason considering using replay assist for facemasks and other major penalties is a game changer in a good way. It might be the most important rule change the NFL needs right now.

It better be fast and into his the refs ear piece right away. 

Glad AJ said he and Hurts are good. 
 

AJ would also say he and Jalen were good if they weren’t good. So whatever. 
 

Its perfectly possible for AJ to be an immature over emotional brat and them still be friends though.

Dont think it will affect much either way. If they collapse they we’re going to anyway. I don’t think they will because I think the defense last year vs this year is night and day. 

25 minutes ago, RLC said:

This was true, but those deep shots have basically been gone since the Cowboys game. 

Hurts is the best deep ball thrower in the league, but teams are playing off/2-high AND he's playing conservative so we're not taking shots.

Youre beginning to put the pieces together that I havent seen in this discussion yet. 

Since our run game has become so dominant, and the passing game's strength was deep shots to Brown- zone is the best defense do try to combat both of those things.

So Hurts is just getting a ton of zone looks. It takes away his bread and butter. It requires him to read coverages after the snap. And he just isnt good at that stuff.

That is why the passing game is struggling. Barkley invites defenses to play in a way that Hurts cant beat. 

1 hour ago, Swoop said:

They don't need to pass more, they need the passes that are being thrown to be more efficient than they have been of late.

It's almost unanimously agreed upon by both sides and yet you keep bringing up these "what if" scenarios

He doesn't understand what the actual discussion point is so he keeps using straw men and false dilemmas

23 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Jalen was continuously throwing and completing to the middle of the field against Baltimore. 

He’s not continuously throwing period against anyone.  He completed 11 freaking passes in that game.

8 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Youre beginning to put the pieces together that I havent seen in this discussion yet. 

Since our run game has become so dominant, and the passing game's strength was deep shots to Brown- zone is the best defense do try to combat both of those things.

So Hurts is just getting a ton of zone looks. It takes away his bread and butter. It requires him to read coverages after the snap. And he just isnt good at that stuff.

That is why the passing game is struggling. Barkley invites defenses to play in a way that Hurts cant beat. 

Washington did this strategy. Had CBs playing super off, but using their front 7 to stop the run. 

In general we see a lot of zone. It even nerfs our favourite mesh plays.

We suck at screens, so can't use that to fight zone. RPOs are great zone killers, but we're not great at them. We don't have the route combinations that the Shanahan/McVay tree use to klil zone. So we're stuck. 

1 minute ago, RLC said:

Washington did this strategy. Had CBs playing super off, but using their front 7 to stop the run. 

In general we see a lot of zone. It even nerfs our favourite mesh plays.

We suck at screens, so can't use that to fight zone. RPOs are great zone killers, but we're not great at them. We don't have the route combinations that the Shanahan/McVay tree use to klil zone. So we're stuck. 

And it all comes down to 1 player that answers the question, "why?"

30 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Now he’s talking like Jimmy?

 

"George likes spicy chicken”

What an effing clown

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

And it all comes down to 1 player that answers the question, "why?"

Screens: Stoutland/Moorehead - OL
RPOs: Jalen
Route Concepts: Moore/Sirianni

It's a team problem. 

13 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Since our run game has become so dominant, and the passing game's strength was deep shots to Brown- zone is the best defense do try to combat both of those things.

Yup, those defenses have been super effective against our run game.

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

Screens: Stoutland/Moorehead - OL
RPOs: Jalen
Route Concepts: Moore/Sirianni

It's a team problem. 

Incorrect

try again

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Yards are yards, touchdowns are touchdowns and wins are wins. 

Incorrect

try again

5 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Yup, those defenses have been super effective against our run game.

Just because it doesn't work well doesn't mean it's the best way to combat it. It's difficult to stop our run game no matter what defense a team is in, but it's a lot harder to do if your defense is mostly man to man 

5 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Incorrect

try again

 

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Incorrect

try again

Haters gonna hate ?

6 minutes ago, RLC said:

Screens: Stoutland/Moorehead - OL
RPOs: Jalen
Route Concepts: Moore/Sirianni

It's a team problem. 

I tend to blame the route concepts on Hurts.  As I’ve said a bunch, we’ve been through 5 different coaches defining this pass attack with Hurts and each one keeps falling back to the same route concepts after starting too ambitious.  There’s a common denominator here.

As far as the screen game…i have no idea.  Stoutland is the easiest to blame as that’s entirely under his purview.  RPO versus screen blocking are obviously different.  I don’t know if our offense has some sort of tell when they are running a screen or if the OL just isn’t comfortable with it, but as an offense, they just don’t set them up well.  

The stupid. It burns

15 minutes ago, RLC said:

Screens: Stoutland/Moorehead - OL
RPOs: Jalen
Route Concepts: Moore/Sirianni

It's a team problem. 

I can give you screens. Last time we were really good at them was with Andy Reid. I think we were ok at them with Chip. Havent even been half decent at them and barely attempt them in a long time. If we could be totally honest, I know its a lot to ask, but Hurts is innacurate on screen passes for some reason and sometimes his passes kill the timing of that play.

RPOs- only reason Hurts had such major success in 2022. A master of them back then. Defenses figured out how to make him second guess them and slow it down. 

Route Concepts- Hurts cant handle/process complicated stuff.

 

9 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

 

Haters gonna hate ?

I can count the Number of people i hate on one hand. Hurts isnt there.

he seems like a good guy. Just a mediocre qb

18 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Yup, those defenses have been super effective against our run game.

Its not an argument of the extend of their success. Fact is, there is a reason why the defense is playing a certain way. Our strengths dont exactly compliment each other. 1 particular style of defense happens to be the best way to attempt to take away both of our strengths.

Im pretty sure defenses will continue picking their poison watching Barkley run rather than seeing our passing game take off. It limits our possessions and IF anyone can figure out how to hang points on our defense, we wont be able to keep up in a shootout if all we can do is run it.

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I can give you screens. Last time we were really good at them was with Andy Reid. I think we were ok at them with Chip. Havent even been half decent at them and barely attempt them in a long time. If we could be totally honest, I know its a lot to ask, but Hurts is innacurate on screen passes for some reason and sometimes his passes kill the timing of that play.

RPOs- only reason Hurts had such major success in 2022. A master of them back then. Defenses figured out how to make him second guess them and slow it down. 

Route Concepts- Hurts cant handle/process complicated stuff.

 

I don’t think I can put the screens on Hurts.  If you just look at the chess board when the ball is released on a screen, it’s usually not pretty for us.  Table just isn’t set.  No defenders are pulled out of the play into the backfield.  We’ve usually got multiple defenders right on the back and not enough blockers in position.  
 

 

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

IF anyone can figure out how to hang points on our defense, we wont be able to keep up in a shootout if all we can do is run it.

Running the ball a lot shortens the game and the number of possessions, thus limiting the chance that an opposing offense is going to score a lot on us.

If teams keep using light boxes against our oline, qb and Saquon, there is zero reason we should be passing the ball more.

15 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don’t think I can put the screens on Hurts.  If you just look at the chess board when the ball is released on a screen, it’s usually not pretty for us.  Table just isn’t set.  No defenders are pulled out of the play into the backfield.  We’ve usually got multiple defenders right on the back and not enough blockers in position.  
 

 

I agree that one is mostly on coaches. I have seen bad ball placement hinder a few of them too though.