22 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

With the HUGE disclaimer that I don't have the time, or desire, to watch the all-22 and never played:

I think a big part of the issue is defenses have basically decided to let us run to a large degree. Despite our monster rushing attack (best in the league), we aren't seeing guys playing 8-9 in the box and leaving their corners on islands. We seem to consistently see 7 in the box, and corners playing off with safety help or straight up zone in the secondary. It feels like defenses have basically decided that the only thing they can take away is the explosive passing plays, and they are daring us to run it over and over again, betting our patience will wear out. I get the strategy from the defense -- make us run it down the field, play zone to stop Barkley from breaking 20+ runs, surrender 5-7 yards on the ground and hope for either (i) a holding penalty or (ii) a couple one on one wins on the line to stop the run. 

In a weird way, if Pittsburgh comes out with this strategy, I want Moore to call nothing but run plays until they are forced out of it.

EDIT: This makes it super frustrating when Jalen doesn't take the shot the one time it was there against the Panthers (he threw incomplete to Johnny Wilson). When they get a shot 1-on-1 for AJ or DeVonta, he has to take it.

I don’t watch the all 22 either, but I find it incredibly difficult to believe that…against an Eagles team on a 9-10 game winning streak that is pulverizing teams on the ground and throwing for like 125 yards per game lately…defenses are content to drop back, scheme to stop a pass attack that hasn’t been productive, while allowing the Eagles to run all over them….which is exactly what the Eagles want to do anyway.  And the Eagles are beating everyone…so why would DC’s continue with this approach?

Feels like a convenient excuse for the aerial failures.

24 minutes ago, MF POON said:

When has this team/offense not been inconsistent during Sirianni's time here?  In 2022 they would start out hot, get big leads, and then just not put up points in the 2nd half.  Now they just don't score in the 1st quarter, but they score in the remaining 3.  I don't like slow starts either, but I'll take them getting better over the game rather than simply going cold in the 2nd half.

 

edit. I wouldn't say broken, because they don't really struggle to score over the course of an entire game, but those first quarter issues aren't all because of Jalen, lol.  I'd say it's just an issue with the offense not getting into their groove until 2nd quarter, as they're currently 4th in the league in 2nd qtr points per game. in the 3rd quarter they're ranked 7th, and the 4th quarter they're ranked 2nd!

That's not a good defense.  

BTW, I didn't say that the first quarter issues are just on Jalen.   I said there were things that aren't working, aka "broken", like the first quarter offense and that's been all season.  The passing offense in recent games has trended down.  So, that's heading towards broken.

The Eagles scored 22 pts on 8 drives vs. Carolina, even counting a missed FG AND bypassing a second FG because our kicking game is bad. We clearly didn't get up for the Panthers and took them lightly. We left with a W and no major injuries. That's what matters. 

If we don't show up against the Steelers, I'll worry more.

14 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

"But you see different areas shining in different years. And so, it’s about the team. I don’t care how it looks. It’s kinda my game, and I think that’s something that people have to accept, that it’s gonna look how Jalen Hurts wants it to look. But he’s gonna win.”

Any questions as to why the passing game is a simple as it looks?  It's how Hurts wants it to look.

My question is why does he refer to himself in the third person there?   😕

But yeah, that particular line bothers me.  The offense or the game or the gameplan shouldn't look the way that Hurts alone wants.  It should be a cooperative effort amongst the coaches and QB.  Maybe he's just communicating his intended meaning poorly, but the way he put it, that's not great.

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don’t watch the all 22 either, but I find it incredibly difficult to believe that…against an Eagles team on a 9-10 game winning streak that is pulverizing teams on the ground and throwing for like 125 yards per game lately…defenses are content to drop back, scheme to stop a pass attack that hasn’t been productive, while allowing the Eagles to run all over them….which is exactly what the Eagles want to do anyway.  And the Eagles are beating everyone…so why would DC’s continue with this approach?

Feels like a convenient excuse for the aerial failures.

Cover 2 looks arent great for stopping the run. But they keep everything in front, safeties can then crash down, and no one has to turn their back and run with receivers. So they can keep an eye on Barkley, and Hurts if he tries to escape. Its not the best way to dominate in run defense, but its a safe way to play it. And at the same time it takes away the ONLY thing the eagles do well in the passing game, which is the deep shots.

Defenses want to limit big plays. So theyve taken away the shot plays to AJ Brown. And by taking away that 1 play, theyve basically limited our entire passing attack. I guess they figure they have a chance to beat us if the QB can only throw for 100 yards. 

Its not a bad plan. Carolina played us pretty tough. And for weeks we have seen the offense slump for entire quarters at a time throughout games. 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

And at the same time it takes away the ONLY thing the eagles do well in the passing game, which is the deep shots.

Cover-2 is more of a hedge against the short to intermediate passing game. If you really want to take away the deep ball, you play 2-Man under, Cover-3, or some variation of C4/C6. Depending on personnel, you can even argue that C1 is a better hedge against the deep ball than C2.

The race to the bottom for the draft looks compelling...

21 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

"But you see different areas shining in different years. And so, it’s about the team. I don’t care how it looks. It’s kinda my game, and I think that’s something that people have to accept, that it’s gonna look how Jalen Hurts wants it to look. But he’s gonna win.”

Any questions as to why the passing game is a simple as it looks?  It's how Hurts wants it to look.

Straight from his mouth.

But it's Sirianni! No, it's Kellen Moore! No wait, Brian Johnson! They aren't scheming players open!

We've been saying the offense is the way it is because of Hurts for years. He just confirmed it.

They'll still argue otherwise

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

So, you are saying that winning is based on more than just the QB's play.   That's good to know.  A lot of folks would point the EAGLES' win record and try to pretend that that's all due to the QB.   Burrow is absolutely balling out this year.  The Bengals have scored more than the Eagles.  But, their main problem is that their defense is putrid.   For comparison purposes, the Eagles have allowed 234 points, meanwhile, the Bengals have allowed 360!   Only the Raiders (361), Cowboys (366) and Panthers (388) have allowed more.  Hard to win when your defense can't stop anybody.

But, thanks for pointing out the importance of the ENTIRE TEAM for winning in the NFL.  It's good to see that some folks understand reality, even though I don't think that was the point you were really trying to make.

No one on here says that! lol.

The only thing anyone has ever said is that lack of turnovers helps the team to win, but I've yet to see anyone say "we won because of Hurts" this season.  That was different last year, because there were some games we did win due to him, and because our defense was trash (much like the position Burrow is in now).

 

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Cover-2 is more of a hedge against the short to intermediate passing game. If you really want to take away the deep ball, you play 2-Man under, Cover-3, or some variation of C4/C6. Depending on personnel, you can even argue that C1 is a better hedge against the deep ball than C2.

Even with all that said,  it's so been open and not getting thrown. 

5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Cover 2 looks arent great for stopping the run. But they keep everything in front, safeties can then crash down, and no one has to turn their back and run with receivers. So they can keep an eye on Barkley, and Hurts if he tries to escape. Its not the best way to dominate in run defense, but its a safe way to play it. And at the same time it takes away the ONLY thing the eagles do well in the passing game, which is the deep shots.

Defenses want to limit big plays. So theyve taken away the shot plays to AJ Brown. And by taking away that 1 play, theyve basically limited our entire passing attack. I guess they figure they have a chance to beat us if the QB can only throw for 100 yards. 

Its not a bad plan. Carolina played us pretty tough. 

Would add that zone forces Hurts to find the open man, something he is struggling with.  You are taking a chance a bit but worth it until we adjust.  

27 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Its pretty fascinating that he wants it to look like him not throwing to open receivers, and taking bad sacks, holding the ball too long, and turning it over if he does get to pass it a lot. I dont get it. Why does he want it to look that way?

You are nothing if not consistent.

One interesting thing I just noticed on that awful slide sack Hurts took, it actually looks like none of the OL are more than a yard beyond the LOS, so a throw away there isn't even a penalty for illegal man downfield. Not that he knew that at the time, but it begs the question as to why they weren't like they usually are on RPOs. Not sure if Stout has them delaying a bit on their initial double before looking upfield or if it was just a matter of circumstance or what, but that was a bit unexpected.

33 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

"But you see different areas shining in different years. And so, it’s about the team. I don’t care how it looks. It’s kinda my game, and I think that’s something that people have to accept, that it’s gonna look how Jalen Hurts wants it to look. But he’s gonna win.”

Any questions as to why the passing game is a simple as it looks?  It's how Hurts wants it to look.

I like that he's taking command but that also means he gets the blame and criticism

18 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's not a good defense.  

BTW, I didn't say that the first quarter issues are just on Jalen.   I said there were things that aren't working, aka "broken", like the first quarter offense and that's been all season.  The passing offense in recent games has trended down.  So, that's heading towards broken.

That's not a good rebuttal. 

Broken is the wrong word to use then imo.  They run the same plays that they do in the first quarter for the entire game, so it's not like those plays are broken, but then somehow get fixed and work in quarters 2-4.  

 

12 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

The race to the bottom for the draft looks compelling...

1-8 want to lose at this point.  Chicago has their qb and wants to win to get things on track.  Well, Jacksonville and Carolina sort of have QBs.  But there is no point in winning games this year for them.

7 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The Colts and Panthers have all 6 of the top 6 leaders in snap counts on defense; it just means their offenses stink and their defenses are always out there to make tackles.

Surprisingly Colts only give up 23/game which is the middle of the pack.

31 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don’t watch the all 22 either, but I find it incredibly difficult to believe that…against an Eagles team on a 9-10 game winning streak that is pulverizing teams on the ground and throwing for like 125 yards per game lately…defenses are content to drop back, scheme to stop a pass attack that hasn’t been productive, while allowing the Eagles to run all over them….which is exactly what the Eagles want to do anyway.  And the Eagles are beating everyone…so why would DC’s continue with this approach?

Feels like a convenient excuse for the aerial failures.

The issue is defenses are scared to death to stack the box because if you don’t have 2 safeties at the back, Barkley is going to erase the pursuit angle for a single high safety and take it to the house.

Teams are going to take their chances that through the course of a drive they can get us in a couple 3rd and long situations and take advantage of our poor passing game to get us off the field.

If you put 8 in the box all game you might get some early down stops, but Barkley will run for 250 yards with 3 50+ yard TDs.

15 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

The race to the bottom for the draft looks compelling...

I don't watch college ball and get my info from here or articles but seems like 2025 is a horrible time to need a QB in the draft

If there is a position player a team in the teens or 20’s really covet, it’s probably a good year to trade into the top 10 on the cheap.

5 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I don't watch college ball and get my info from here or articles but seems like 2025 is a horrible time to need a QB in the draft

The randomness in franchise trajectory based on when they have a bad season is remarkable.

When the Colts suck, they have Peyton and then Luck waiting for them.   

3 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I think the return of Bryce Huff as a backup rotational edge rusher will actually be a welcomed addition to the defense.  He’s been left for dead, but I wonder if there is any word on his return.

Agree with this completely.  Huff is a one trick pony.  A great get-off to get to the QB.  If used correctly (dropping him into coverage is a complete waste) he will help the pass rush from edge.  Play him in pure passing situations.

I believe he can come off IR after this game or the next.  Doesnt't mean his wrist will be healthy enough.

49 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's the frustrating part.   The shots are there and plays are there to be made, but they aren't.  We can argue about the whys, but the reality is that there are plays to be made that aren't and that's where the frustration really comes from.   I don't think Brown is really upset about the run-pass balance, he'd be foolish to be quite honestly, but I think what does upset him is that the team isn't actually passing the ball very efficiently when they do pass it.  And I think THAT is the frustrating part.

Yup. When there are going to be very limited opportunities by design, you can't afford to miss the ones that present themselves. Every QB misses shots, but it will be magnified for us given the small number of passing plays. Jalen has to take the shot when it is there.

16 minutes ago, MF POON said:

That's not a good rebuttal. 

Broken is the wrong word to use then imo.  They run the same plays that they do in the first quarter for the entire game, so it's not like those plays are broken, but then somehow get fixed and work in quarters 2-4.  

 

Not entirely true.  You are using 'fixed' instead of 'tweaked'.

They show plays in the first quarter to see what the defense is doing.  They then show a similar look later in the game and run a slightly different play to take advantage of what the defense had shown them earlier.  

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

If there is a position player a team in the teens or 20’s really covet, it’s probably a good year to trade into the top 10 on the cheap.

For who though? This is a really weak top of the class.

If anything, I’d be looking to trade down. The strength of this draft is in mid round depth — there should be tons of interesting prospects available in the 3rd-5th rounds.