1 hour ago, NOTW said:

Rewatching the Panthers game highlights and thinking about AJ's comment. In the 4th they take over the ball with a lead, and the first play was play action pass to AJ in the middle of the field on a slant. There was another completion to AJ on that drive as well. Earlier in the game in the red zone Hurts threw to AJ who ran for some YAC but didn't get in the endzone. 

I don't think AJ is frustrated specifically for a selfish reason that he's not getting the ball, I think his comments were about the passing game overall including Smitty. He always has high praise for Smith, and I'm sure the skill players expect more in the passing game as well. I'm sure they are frustrated by being open and seeing the missed opportunities.

I hope they are having serious talks and focus this week on improving the pass game. They will still run the offense through Barkley but will need to be balanced to beat the Steelers. Unfortunately it's also going to be necessary to quite the noise by showing a good pass performance.

There were multiple open guys that were missed through the game. We had 83 net passing yards.3 of the first 5 drives in the first half got stopped as a 3 and out or after a single first down. Our last kill the clock drive ended early due to boneheaded mistakes from ourselves. The offence only put up 22 points (including a short field TD)

There is certainly room for improvement from the O overall, and our running game is performing about as well as it can, so yeah the passing game does need to improve. I don't agree about airing it out in the media because things can get misconstrued and take a life of their own (especially with Philly media) but AJ's sentiment is 110% correct, 

1 hour ago, Freshmilk said:

Lets review the play I was referencing:

Brown lined up on right side of formation.  Pistol snap, Hurts slides right.  Barkely is safety valve also right side.  This play has two reads: to Brown if open, if not, check down to Barkley.  The left side of the field does not exist.  The first read is Brown.  He is open immediately.  Hurts is watching him.  Brown heading up field and makes a soft break to the boundary.  Wide open.  Hurts has no pressure.  Ball should he thrown at Brown's break.  Nobody near Brown or Hurts.  This is the read.  They got exactly what they wanted.  You can see Hurts watching Brown.  He checks it down to Barkley.   Hurts didn't miss a wide open Brown, he didn't throw it.  Every NFL QB and many college QBs make that throw without a 2nd thought. 

 

When I say miss, I don't mean he threw it and missed. QB's miss open guys all the time cos they either don't see it, or didn't trust it.  So no, not "every NFL QB and many college QB's make that throw without a 2nd thought."  I've seen plenty of games this season where the highly praised or "elite" QB's were highlighted for not seeing a wide open WR on numerous plays. For whatever unknown reason, you, and others like you, like to single out Jalen as if this is something only relative to him. 

I've noticed this new thing of citing "net passing yards" when it reflects poorly. I get that he didn't pass a lot, he only had 108 yards but that's what the stat sites say, they don't typically report net. This is the same thing as combining total yards and TDs to include rushing to spin stats to your bias.

2 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I've noticed this new thing of citing "net passing yards" when it reflects poorly. I get that he didn't pass a lot, he only had 108 yards but that's what the stat sites say, they don't typically report net. This is the same thing as combining total yards and TDs to include rushing to spin stats to your bias.

Well that would just skew everyone's stats negatively.  Plus, I feel like if you were to do that, then why is it fair to leave YAC in for the QB?  You have QB's that get all the credit for a 300+ yard passing day when it was really the WR"s that took a 7 yard pass 60 yards on their own. 

6 hours ago, brkmsn said:

So was Goff's 15-30 - 240 yards - 2TD - 5INT game better because he had more yards? Also, are good team's carried by their QB? Dan Marino certainly carried Miami for years. Joe Burrow is carrying his team. Does that make those team's good? Which team is better --- the Eagles or Bengals?

Again with false dilemmas and strawmen. You're arguing against points literally no one has made. Who is saying yards=good? Who? Literally all anyone is saying is Hurts needs to be more efficient. The passi g game sucks right now and hes a big part of it. You cannot argue that he's been good the past 3 games, he hasn't been. And you're going to blame Burrow for the Bengals defense giving up 30 points a game? If Burrow had our defense, the Bengals would he undefeated.

If you're just going to keep making up fake arguments there's no point in discussing anything further with you.

1 hour ago, NCiggles said:

Antonio Brown isn't a top 20.  They don't have Larry Fitzgerald.  Art Monk, Isaac Bruce and Tim Brown should be on the list before Harrison, Largent or Carter.  I think probably Hutson doesn't belong just because there's no one alive that likely saw him. 

I liked Art Monk but there is no way he was better than Harrison or Carter.

24 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I've noticed this new thing of citing "net passing yards" when it reflects poorly. I get that he didn't pass a lot, he only had 108 yards but that's what the stat sites say, they don't typically report net. This is the same thing as combining total yards and TDs to include rushing to spin stats to your bias.

Its not hard to find man. Straight from ESPN box score......sacks have been a major issue all year - negative driver killing plays.

Pointing out areas for improvement doesn't mean we hate Jalen. There is good and bad in his game (red zone efficiency and no turnovers were great which i've said many times before). 

And I actually don't have an issue at all with 20 - 25 pass attempts - its probably right for this offense. We just need to more efficient. 5.1 YPA is bad. This was up in the high single digits / low double digits when he has played his best this year.

 

20 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I've noticed this new thing of citing "net passing yards" when it reflects poorly. I get that he didn't pass a lot, he only had 108 yards but that's what the stat sites say, they don't typically report net. This is the same thing as combining total yards and TDs to include rushing to spin stats to your bias.

Sites don't typically report it because it's a subjective stat. There could be multiple reasons why there was a sack. I think in Hurts case, because he holds on to the ball too long or scrambles into an eventual "sack" it's being brought up more. Now, not every single sack is on him but it does feel like he is a big reason for a lot of them.

I'm sure people just use it as a bias too, though. That's basically every stat. There are so many stats now anymore that you can use anything to spin any bias. I could use stats to say Sunday was a great offensive day against the Panthers. There really is no singular, all-being stat. 

4 minutes ago, devpool said:

Again with false dilemmas and strawmen. You're arguing against points literally no one has made. Who is saying yards=good? Who? Literally all anyone is saying is Hurts needs to be more efficient. The passi g game sucks right now and hes a big part of it. You cannot argue that he's been good the past 3 games, he hasn't been. And you're going to blame Burrow for the Bengals defense giving up 30 points a game? If Burrow had our defense, the Bengals would he undefeated.

If you're just going to keep making up fake arguments there's no point in discussing anything further with you.

Burrow has been amazing, but he's also had a few bad games. They did lose 16-10 to the Patriots, with Burrow having 0 TDs, 1 fumble, and 164 yards on 29 pass attempts. 

Also, Burrow's had big turnovers in games they might have won if he didn't turn it over. They just lost to the Steelers recently, and even though Burrow threw for 309 and 3 TDs, he also had an INT and 2 fumbles lost to Pitt.   You can't quite blame that all on the defense. Same thing with the loss to the Chiefs. if he doesn't fumble twice and give one to them, maybe they don't lose by 1. Overall though, I agree that the Bengals D is holding that team back.

20 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Well that would just skew everyone's stats negatively.  Plus, I feel like if you were to do that, then why is it fair to leave YAC in for the QB?  You have QB's that get all the credit for a 300+ yard passing day when it was really the WR"s that took a 7 yard pass 60 yards on their own. 

Yes I've made that point before. 

I've said the example of how RB stats are done is pretty good. Their primary job is rushing the ball, and receiving stats are kept separate, plus they'll note all purpose yards as totals.

"It's about the team"

"All right, are you willing to run a more complex offense?"

"Jalen Hurts does what Jalen Hurts wants. Flush that question and keep the main thing the main thing"

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Sites don't typically report it because it's a subjective stat. There could be multiple reasons why there was a sack. I think in Hurts case, because he holds on to the ball too long or scrambles into an eventual "sack" it's being brought up more. Now, not every single sack is on him but it does feel like he is a big reason for a lot of them.

I'm sure people just use it as a bias too, though. That's basically every stat. There are so many stats now anymore that you can use anything to spin any bias. I could use stats to say Sunday was a great offensive day against the Panthers. There really is no singular, all-being stat. 

That's all true. But this week is literally the first time I've ever seen someone on here refer to the net passing, and there's a reason.

Might be in the minority with this one, but I think you should have an "oh crap" quality to your game to be ranked top 10 all time at WR. Rice, Moss, TO, Megatron - those guys petrified defenses. Guys like Isaac Bruce were awesome and accumulated huge numbers, but no way I'd rank them top 10 all time. Tyreek Hill would be somewhere in my top 10

Think I'm the only person I know that has TO as a better WR than Moss

32 minutes ago, devpool said:

Again with false dilemmas and strawmen. You're arguing against points literally no one has made. Who is saying yards=good? Who? Literally all anyone is saying is Hurts needs to be more efficient. The passi g game sucks right now and hes a big part of it. You cannot argue that he's been good the past 3 games, he hasn't been. And you're going to blame Burrow for the Bengals defense giving up 30 points a game? If Burrow had our defense, the Bengals would he undefeated.

If you're just going to keep making up fake arguments there's no point in discussing anything further with you.

Idk why people are crapping on burrow. The bengals offense is scoring 28 ppg and essentially tied for 5th most in the nfl. The bengals have scored 30 points and are 2-4 cause their defense gave up on average 34.3 points. If burrow had the eagles defense they might be competing for the top seed in the afc. Their offense isn’t the issue with that team outside of week 1 where crazy crap happens all around the league. Eagles nearly lost to New England last year in week one and that New England team was just as bad 
 

Their defense is as bad and some areas worse than the eagles in 2023. Bengals defense ranks 29th in points allowed (27.7ppg), 23rd against the run (130.3 yards per game), 27th against the pass (235) and total defense 26th (365.5 yards per game allowed). Average 1.1 takeaways per game. The eagles defense last year was 30th in points allowed (25.3ppg), 11th against the run (104 yards per game), 30th against the pass (255 yards per game) and total defense 26th (360 yards per game). 2023 eagles averaged 1 takeaway per game. 

8 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

Its not hard to find man. Straight from ESPN box score......sacks have been a major issue all year - negative driver killing plays.

Pointing out areas for improvement doesn't mean we hate Jalen. There is good and bad in his game (red zone efficiency and no turnovers were great which i've said many times before). 

And I actually don't have an issue at all with 20 - 25 pass attempts - its probably right for this offense. We just need to more efficient. 5.1 YPA is bad. This was up in the high single digits / low double digits when he has played his best this year.

I get that. But normally people just cite the passing yards, the 108 next to Jalen's name. I've seen several cite 83 net passing yards this week because it makes him look even worse. All the places that show the passing stats for that game or the season or game logs on ESPN don't show net until you click a few times into the full box score. We don't do that for other QBs around the league, and we don't normally do it even for Hurts.

 

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

I get that. But normally people just cite the passing yards, the 108 next to Jalen's name. I've seen several cite 83 net passing yards this week because it makes him look even worse. All the places that show the passing stats for that game or the season or game logs on ESPN don't show net until you click a few times into the full box score. We don't do that for other QBs around the league, and we don't normally do it even for Hurts.

 

I agree with you, but after that dumb slide sack he took, it's okay for this week alone.

36 minutes ago, devpool said:

Again with false dilemmas and strawmen. You're arguing against points literally no one has made. Who is saying yards=good? Who? Literally all anyone is saying is Hurts needs to be more efficient. The passi g game sucks right now and hes a big part of it. You cannot argue that he's been good the past 3 games, he hasn't been. And you're going to blame Burrow for the Bengals defense giving up 30 points a game? If Burrow had our defense, the Bengals would he undefeated.

If you're just going to keep making up fake arguments there's no point in discussing anything further with you.

Come on man, people are criticizing him for low passing yards, using net passing yards to spin it even worse, complaining he's thrown for barely 100 yards the last few weeks, complaining he hasn't thrown for over 250 yards enough, may not reach 3,000 yards passing. It's been talked about a lot, maybe not by you but a lot of people have complained about his yards...and yes, the efficiency point has been made as well.

 

1 minute ago, Swoop said:

I agree with you, but after that dumb slide sack he took, it's okay for this week alone.

It's definitely frustrating, and I've said a lot of times that he must play better, more efficient, etc.

 

11 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Think I'm the only person I know that has TO as a better WR than Moss

Because Moss was better?

Just now, NOTW said:

It's definitely frustrating, and I've said a lot of times that he must play better, more efficient, etc.

 

For sure, but I was just kidding.

The whole net yards thing, even as a "hater", isn't worth the time IMO 

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Because Moss was better?

I disagree, but that's fine.

Both are some of the best WRs and are above Megatron (only because he cut his career short)

11 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Think I'm the only person I know that has TO as a better WR than Moss

This is a toss up for me.

I think Randy Moss needed the right QB to take FULL advantage of his skills. Not taking anything at all from Randy Moss, but he was best pushing the ball downfield, having a QB trust him to either run by the DB or make acrobatic catches or "Moss" them. It was always a treat to see him take a slant to the house though too. 

TO could be used all over the field. He could bully guys at the LOS. He could run past DBs. He could shrug off LB on a slant and take it to the house. He could outmuscle anyone to catch the ball. 

I don't know who I'd rather have. 

 

What info is out there exactly that this guy is crying about it?