2 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

Jones last year had 28 tackles and 4 sacks in a down year.  Milton Williams had 24 tackles and 5 sacks in a breakout year.

They're both listed as 6 foot 3 and 281 pounds.  Jones played a bunch of DT before they started moving him all around the line.

I'm not saying he will be as good as Milton was becoming but lets not say it's outlandish he can't help replace some of Milton's production

 

We aren’t singing anyone who takes away comp picks… basically the only options will be low level guys or players that got cut and don’t count against the comp formula… like Javon Hargrave 

1 minute ago, garingovt2000 said:

Jones last year had 28 tackles and 4 sacks in a down year.  Milton Williams had 24 tackles and 5 sacks in a breakout year.

They're both listed as 6 foot 3 and 281 pounds.  Jones played a bunch of DT before they started moving him all around the line.

I'm not saying he will be as good as Milton was becoming but lets not say it's outlandish he can help replace some of Milton's production

 

He played his rookie season at DT before playing predominantly DE and OLB the last 4 years, if he was a 5 sack a year DT his contract would be pretty much the same as Williams if not more.

1 minute ago, Cheesteakitis said:

We aren’t singing anyone who takes away comp picks… basically the only options will be low level guys or players that got cut and don’t count against the comp formula… like Javon Hargrave 

Jones was cut, he doesn't count against comp picks

27 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Slay clearly wants to come back on a reduced deal. 

https://twitter.com/EmmanuelAcho/status/1897327637540045194

Sounds to me like he wants to be paid... and as long as the money matches, this is his top choice.   It sure sounds like he's not willing to come back on a 'discount'.  The only discount would be compared to what he WOULD HAVE gotten had he not been cut.   But, if he was willing to come back at a discount, they'd likely have announced his new deal at the same time they cut him.  When they did that with Fletcher Cox in 2022, he was 'on the market' for 2 whole days.  Cut on the 17th of March, signed back on the 19th.  And that was one day into the tampering period, not a week early.  I think the Eagles are ready to move on from Slay and are giving him every opportunity to get the best deal he can... elsewhere.  

20 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I have referenced Gimore's deal with Minny last year as a comp. 1 year, $7mm. He didn't sign until August, and was a former DPOY. With the cap increase, 1 year $6-$7mm feels right for Slay. He did say in that interview that if the money were close, he'd choose Philly. 

I think the word he said was 'equal', which I don't interpret as 'close'.  

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

I think the word he said was 'equal', which I don't interpret as 'close'.  

The question from Acho was equal, then Slay says something about being close.

And again, my post on a reduced deal was in reference to his old contract. I wasn't saying he'd take a massive discount to stay in Philly versus the open market.

The Eagles won't only sign released players, you can sign normal free agents without it screwing your comp picks.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

And FWIW, I wouldn't bring Slay back at 1 year, $7mm. I'm sure there is some price where I would, but more like 4-5mm, and he'll get more elsewhere. 

After 2017 and 2022, Howie re-upped with aging players and got burned. After 2017 we brought back Alshon, Ajayi, added Mike Williams and then DJax...all of them were disasters. Howie was trying to recreate the 2017 magic with vets (11 of the 22 starters on that team were FAs/trades), and it burned him as guys got old fast. After 2022 he re-upped Bradberry and Slay and paid for it. Feels like this time we are committing to youth, especially on defense.

Unless we're adding a specific hall of fame defensive player

Just now, Mike030270 said:

Unless we're adding a specific hall of fame defensive player

Well, yeah. Obviously if you can add a generational talent in his prime, you find a way.

10 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

And FWIW, I wouldn't bring Slay back at 1 year, $7mm. I'm sure there is some price where I would, but more like 4-5mm, and he'll get more elsewhere. 

After 2017 and 2022, Howie re-upped with aging players and got burned. After 2017 we brought back Alshon, Ajayi, added Mike Williams and then DJax...all of them were disasters. Howie was trying to recreate the 2017 magic with vets (11 of the 22 starters on that team were FAs/trades), and it burned him as guys got old fast. After 2022 he re-upped Bradberry and Slay and paid for it. Feels like this time we are committing to youth, especially on defense.

Players who will be 30+ for 2025 season. (Bold = under contract)

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Unless we're adding a specific hall of fame defensive player

Jack Lambert is making a comeback?

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Jones was cut, he doesn't count against comp picks

Thanks didn’t look that far into it.. just know he has discussed several other players who I thought were free agents and I just don’t see it happening.

I am now counting Slay, Sweat, Becton and Williams as former Eagles in my mind. The market just has too much cap space (with starving franchises like Pats, Bears and Commanders looking to poach and set the tone) for Eagles to sign them. If we can walk away with Baun, Burks, Rodgers and F. Johnson it will ease the blow. I'm going to have faith that Howie holds another masterclass in the draft and finds a couple low cost gems in free agency like last year. Though willing to scrap all of that for a Baun/Becton or Baun/Williams tandem. But got to keep it real. 

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The question from Acho was equal, then Slay says something about being close.

And again, my post on a reduced deal was in reference to his old contract. I wasn't saying he'd take a massive discount to stay in Philly versus the open market.

I think he's gone.  One of the other things implied was playing time with the 'everything being equal'... and I think the team is ready to turn to a younger CB opposite Mitchell.  They might be willing to bring back Rodgers to compete with Ringo, but I don't think they want a 35/36 year old CB.  That's just not good.   AND, if he's not starting, would he play ST?   Doubtful.   So, I just don't see a path for him to return.   And I think he knows it.  That's why he was talking like the Super Bowl was his last game in Philly before the Super Bowl.  He knows his goal is to get paid the most he can for his final year AND to play as many snaps as he can.  He's not coming back as depth or cheaply.  The Eagles would require both and a commitment from him to play ST.  He's not that guy.

2 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Jack Lambert is making a comeback?

I think I'd rather bring back Jack Ham.  🤷‍♂️

Slay was legitimately good last year, and this is his last year to cash-in. Can't blame him for not wanting to take a huge pay cut.

He's simply worth more to other teams than us.

Hope he gets entered into the Eagles Ring of Honour!

21 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

And FWIW, I wouldn't bring Slay back at 1 year, $7mm. I'm sure there is some price where I would, but more like 4-5mm, and he'll get more elsewhere. 

After 2017 and 2022, Howie re-upped with aging players and got burned. After 2017 we brought back Alshon, Ajayi, added Mike Williams and then DJax...all of them were disasters. Howie was trying to recreate the 2017 magic with vets (11 of the 22 starters on that team were FAs/trades), and it burned him as guys got old fast. After 2022 he re-upped Bradberry and Slay and paid for it. Feels like this time we are committing to youth, especially on defense.

Maybe someone with better understanding of the cap can explain this... He's leaving 9 million of dead cap in 2025 and 13 million in 2026. If he re-signs, let's say for 8 million, doesn't it mean that a lot of that money is already being counted and the new contract doesn't really affect the cap too much?

Just now, beto_eagles said:

Maybe someone with better understanding of the cap can explain this... He's leaving 9 million of dead cap in 2025 and 13 million in 2026. If he re-signs, let's say for 8 million, doesn't it mean that a lot of that money is already being counted and the new contract doesn't really affect the cap too much?

No. Dead money is all from the old contract. New contract would be in addition. It would be 1 on top of the 2. 

2 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

It really hurt their run game too. Fran Duffy brought up before the Super Bowl, since they made that move to Caliendo and moving Joe thuney out to left tackle, 50% of their runs went for one yard or less. They were bad running the ball once they made that move.

I said the other day, I would’ve kept thuney, creed and Smith as my interior against the Eagles. That interior is really good. One of the best in football. They probably would have at least somewhat decent chance with the Eagles interior pass rush. Now their tackles would’ve been a problem. But I would’ve just helped the crap out of the tackles since thuney wasn’t good enough at LT and your interior was made weaker by moving him out, the eagles could feast from the edge and inside. They basically made themselves weaker in the interior to get a still deficient LT 

That sounds logical, but remember what Tampa did to them in the SB. Free rushes on Mahomes from both turnstiles, er, tackles.

This free agent class is just hideous. Good year to not have a ton of cap room.

4 hours ago, ManuManu said:

So Aaron Schatz of FO wrote about the curse of 370 carries. This was based on regular season totals, and not including the playoffs. Through Derrick Henry’s 2,000 yard season in 2020, 30 running backs had 370 or more carries — all but one had a decrease in production the following season.

Now you might say that’s understandable in Barkley’s case, given he had an all-time great season. I would agree. Regression is expected as his breakaway rate surely will go down. However, when looking at the list of 370-carry backs, they saw a decrease by about 40 percent in their production. Further, 21 of the 30 RBs missed time with injuries. However, it wasn’t just total yards, their efficiency declined as well. 

Tom Brady never once in his sad career was able to duplicate his 50 TD 117 passer rating season. Aaron Schatz could write about it. Oh, he did have the best QB career in NFL history from age 30+ after that, went to 9 more Championship games, 6 more SBs, and won 4 of them.  But he did not get the 50 TDs again, what a tragedy.

Jerry Rice never once was able to duplicate his 22 TD season.

Reggie White was never able to duplicate his 21 1/2 sack season. He regressed to 18 the next year and never got above 15 again.

Aaron Donald was never able to duplicate his 20 1/2 sack season in 2018.

Dickerson was never able to duplicate his 2k season. He fell on hard times and only averaged 1703 and 12 rushing over the next 5 years.

 

Jerry Rice led the league in receiving yards from 1993 to 1995. In the next 30 years only Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson were able to lead the league in yards 2 years in a row. Add in Julio Jones and Marvin Harrison and they are the only 4 to lead the league in 2 different seasons in the last 30 years. The NFL is not a just do exactly what you did last year league. Schedules are different, rosters are different, etc.

 

Check out Tomlinson's career. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TomlLa00.htm

6 straight years of 390+ touches with no significant drop off. 370 the next year was just as good. In his 8th year he 'fell' to 1536 total yards and 12 TDs.

People like to use Priest Holmes and Terrell Davis as breakdown examples while ignoring that their usage and dominance lasted 3 years.

Homes had 389, 383, and 394 touches.

Davis had 381, 411, 417

Tiki Barber's last 3 years might be a better comp for the touches and low abuse level that Saquon sees. Tiki walked away healthy.

 

I would guestimate that 95% of the samples in that study were the backs who got murdered on 3rd and 1 and 1 yard line TD plunges and 4th and 1. Hurts does that in Philly so Saquon takes way less abuse than a Priest Holmes or a Terrell Davis.

4 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

No. Dead money is all from the old contract. New contract would be in addition. It would be 1 on top of the 2. 

Oh OK, so yeah, it's not such a good idea to bring him back. 

2 minutes ago, beto_eagles said:

Oh OK, so yeah, it's not such a good idea to bring him back. 

I mean, if it's just a 1 year $8M deal, Howie could could do his usual gymnastics for it to not impact the cap that much this year and have more dead money in 2026 and 2027. It could probably be roughly just $2M extra in cap space in 2025. I just more so meant the current dead money is what it is and wouldn't matter if he re-signed or not.

9 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

No. Dead money is all from the old contract. New contract would be in addition. It would be 1 on top of the 2. 

We learned that from the awfulness of the 2 part Fletcher Cox contract a few years back.

• 12.8 dead and 4 new in 2022
• 15.3 dead and 5.7 new in 2023
• 4.2 dead last year
• 10.1 dead this year

not ideal

*note with all of these we pull from Spotrac or OvertheCap and they might not be 100% accurate

15 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Tom Brady never once in his sad career was able to duplicate his 50 TD 117 passer rating season. Aaron Schatz could write about it. Oh, he did have the best QB career in NFL history from age 30+ after that, went to 9 more Championship games, 6 more SBs, and won 4 of them.  But he did not get the 50 TDs again, what a tragedy.

Jerry Rice never once was able to duplicate his 22 TD season.

Reggie White was never able to duplicate his 21 1/2 sack season. He regressed to 18 the next year and never got above 15 again.

Aaron Donald was never able to duplicate his 20 1/2 sack season in 2018.

Dickerson was never able to duplicate his 2k season. He fell on hard times and only averaged 1703 and 12 rushing over the next 5 years.

 

Jerry Rice led the league in receiving yards from 1993 to 1995. In the next 30 years only Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson were able to lead the league in yards 2 years in a row. Add in Julio Jones and Marvin Harrison and they are the only 4 to lead the league in 2 different seasons in the last 30 years. The NFL is not a just do exactly what you did last year league. Schedules are different, rosters are different, etc.

 

Check out Tomlinson's career. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TomlLa00.htm

6 straight years of 390+ touches with no significant drop off. 370 the next year was just as good. In his 8th year he 'fell' to 1536 total yards and 12 TDs.

People like to use Priest Holmes and Terrell Davis as breakdown examples while ignoring that their usage and dominance lasted 3 years.

Homes had 389, 383, and 394 touches.

Davis had 381, 411, 417

Tiki Barber's last 3 years might be a better comp for the touches and low abuse level that Saquon sees. Tiki walked away healthy.

 

I would guestimate that 95% of the samples in that study were the backs who got murdered on 3rd and 1 and 1 yard line TD plunges and 4th and 1. Hurts does that in Philly so Saquon takes way less abuse than a Priest Holmes or a Terrell Davis.

Saquon's yards before contact number was astronomically high this year. I don't know what it finished at, but back in November he was averaging around 4 yards before contact. It's never a guarantee that anyone can stay healthy, but it wasn't a punishing season for him even though he had 350 rushing attempts in the regular season. And if he rushes for 1400/1500 next season instead of 2,000 is that really a "regression"? By definition, sure. But I think we'd be happy with that number.