2 hours ago, bpac55 said:

The bottom line is the Eagles don't use W3-WR5 for it to be a heavy investment. Even with this year having Saquon as the focus, the passing game distribution is relatively the same year in and year out.

Since Jalen Hurts has been QB, the Eagles use of any WR3-5 is extremely low. We beat to death that Jalen hasn't had the same OC for consecutive seasons but these stats are consistent with Hurts time here, but at some point I think we have to just live with the fact that Hurts isn't using WR3 or lower. 

2024- WR not named AJ Brown or DeVonta Smith had 45 catches for 365 yards. Next leading WR had 19 catches (Dotson. They had 620 rushing attempts.

2023- WR not named AJ Brown or DeVonta Smith had 36 catches for 380 yards. Next leading WR had 10 catches (Zaccheaus). They had 510 rushing attempts.

2022- WR not named AJ Brown or DeVonta Smith had 48 catches for 504 yards. Next leading WR had 33 catches (Quez). They had 542 rushing attempts.

2021- WR not named DeVonta Smith and no AJ had 42 catches for 430 yards (Reagor, JJAW, Greg Ward combined with Reagor leading the way at 33). They had 552 rushing attempts. 

Trading a 3rd round pick for a position that doesn't get used seems like a waste of valuable resources. They are either going to be a run heavy team or a feed AJ/DeVonta/TE team. Nothing wrong with that. It works. But don't use high picks on positions we know aren't going to be used.

Let's not over value a late 3rd rd pick, yes, we got Hunt with one, but we've missed on a few.

Dotson was both an insurance policy and an under used option, as we saw in the POs - when teams focus on the other weapons he can make big plays.

8 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Very true though we will never know until he gets a shot.  I have no problem with Pickett as the backup but it seems like a chance to get some draft capital and still feel good about McKee as the backup.  I think Howie should be able to find another vet out there for no more money than Kenny who can be the #3 and insurance policy if necessary.

Yep.  We don't know what any of these guys are, until they actually go out and prove it on the field.   We felt really good about Q and Dejean on draft night.  But, we didn't know they'd play as well as they did.  Those two as much as anyone else on the field made a massive impact on this defense this year.   #1 against the pass this year, #2 in scoring... a TON of that is because the back end was so good.  But, we didn't know... until it was shown to be true.  

I'm curious what Howie will do at QB this year.  Does he flip assets... or does he invest in the QB position so that we don't end up in a bad spot when the injuries come.  Hard to know which way he'll go, or what offers might be out there.

8 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

Meh, I don’t see trading for Pickett as any worse than paying QBs like Mariota $5M+/yr. Perhaps Kenny P will make the numbers work for Baun, etc. Now I liked what I saw from McKee previously, but competition is good. 

Right.  Mariota was another guy with starting experience that they invested in as a backup.   This team does't like not having a backup with starting experience.  That's their MO.  McKee now has some.  But before last season, he had 0 snaps.  Hard to go with that as their primary backup.  The could do it... but its a gamble and one they weren't willing to take.

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

I meant the bradburry extension. And picket was not rational at all. I can cese that Dotson was.

baun and burks are dumb luck lottery tix that showed how good fangio is. Not howie. Becton is Stoutland.

i get we are throwing flowers to everyone. BUt thats when we get irrational and revise history.

 

Picket was quite rational, he's a mediocre starting QB, but as a backup, that's as good as it gets (otherwise he'd be starting for another team). The best backup we've had was Garcia, and we couldn't keep him once he had a good run. And Pickett came through when he was asked to step in.

Baun wasn't dumb luck, of course Howie consults with his coaches, but he still has to get these players they target. That's literally his job.

I'm sure Howie sits down with Stoutland, Fangio, and other coaches and asks for their opinions of different players who might shake loose or be available in trades.

The worst mistake a GM can do is get a player who's not a good fit - that doesn't mean mistakes won't be made, I think they over estimated Huff's ability to play in space and the reduced role of a pure pass rusher in Fangio's scheme. But that was probably a consensus mistake. In the same way, not every player Stoutland wanted worked out - until he gets his mitts on them you can never be sure they'll be a good fit.

9 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

They won SB LII 10 months after drafting Darnell Pumphrey.

Mistakes are made.  Just make less than the other guys. 

Pumphrey's college numbers are still mindblowing, in 3 years as RB1 at San Diego State he put up 5653 yards at 6.1yds a carry with 53 TD's, with another 805 receiving.

His predecessor at San Diego Adam Muema was another weird tale, after leaving to enter the draft in 2014, he was expected to be drafted until he suddenly left the NFL Combine claiming to have "received a message from God that Seattle were going to draft him and he should just chill out" then went missing entirely for several days, skipping San Diego's pro day, got dropped by his agent and never played again.  He became a missionary, apparently having forgiven God for telling him Seattle were going to draft him.

The Eagles drafts got much better after Joe Douglas left. He really liked Barnett and Pumphrey...

18 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The thinking a lot of folks had was that he was insurance against a long term injury to either Brown or Smith, as none of the other WRs on the roster had a history as an outside WR.   It also freed up Smith to work more from the slot.  And, they have Dotson under control for another 2 years (if they want to use the 5th year option).  

 

Now, that might carry more weight if he was used more when they were out, but frankly, I think it was a good trade.  We got more from him for that 3rd round pick than we did for Golden Tate.  #Progress.    And now that Hurts got a little more familiarity with him, we might see more from him this coming year.   We definitely are going to need to go to a bit more of a passing offense next year and lighten up the work load on Barkley.  They could lighten it up by going with more runs to RB2, or they could pass more, or use more jet sweeps with Dotson.  Or just pass more.  We'll see.  

 

But, personally, I am not going to kill Howie for any moves this offseason, including the glaringly horrible one in Bryce Huff.  It all worked out as well as we could ever hope.   And while an individual move might not have been perfect... the offseason as a whole was an overwhelming success.   Would we be upset with Bryce Harper for a night where he goes 4 for 5, with 2 HRs, a double and an RBI Single because he lead off the 3rd inning with a strikeout, but ended the game with a grand slam to win it?   Perfection is unattainable.   You aim for perfection in the hopes of achieving excellence.  Howie achieved excellence.  

Oh, I'm not killing Howie at all even if I think the 3rd was a little steep. I agree, Dotson is good insurance in case of injuries, but even when both Brown and Smith were injured, Dotson was invisible.

However, there were 13 trades for WR last year. The only WR that cost more than Dotson was Stefon Diggs, who was traded along with 5th and 6th for a 2nd...to be WR1. Out of all those trades, the only WR who performed worse than Dotson was Ben Skowronek (no, I didn't make this name up). 

Cooper, Allen, Jeudy, Adams and Diggs were all traded to be WR1 and all cost less (with exception to Diggs) than the Eagles paid for Dotson to be WR3, when we know the Eagles don't use WR3.

 

Results: 13

• Mike Williams (WR)Nov 05, 2024 - Traded to Pittsburgh (PIT) from New York (NYJ) for 2025 5th round pick
• Jonathan Mingo (WR)Nov 05, 2024 - Traded to Dallas (DAL) from Carolina (CAR) with 2025 7th round pick for 2025 4th round pick
• Diontae Johnson (WR)Oct 29, 2024 - Traded to Baltimore (BAL) from Carolina (CAR) with 2025 6th round pick for 2025 5th round pick
• DeAndre Hopkins (WR)Oct 23, 2024 - Traded to Kansas City (KC) from Tennessee (TEN) for 2025 5th round pick [Conveys to a 4th if KC makes the Super Bowl & Hopkins plays 60% regular season snaps]
• Amari Cooper (WR)Oct 15, 2024 - Traded to Buffalo (BUF) from Cleveland (CLE) with 2025 6th round pick for 2025 3rd round pick [(from DET)] and 2026 7th round pick
• Davante Adams (WR)Oct 15, 2024 - Traded to New York (NYJ) from Las Vegas (LV) for 2025 3rd round pick [Conveys to a 2nd Rd Pick if Adams is an All-Pro, or active for the AFC Championship Game/Super Bowl]
• Jahan Dotson (WR)Aug 22, 2024 - Traded to Philadelphia (PHI) from Washington (WAS) with 2025 5th round pick for 2025 3rd round pick [Conditional] , 2025 7th round pick [from NO] and 2025 7th round pick [from DEN]
• Ben Skowronek (WR)May 09, 2024 - Traded to Houston (HOU) from Los Angeles (LAR) with 2026 7th round pick for 2026 6th round pick
• Stefon Diggs (WR)Apr 03, 2024 - Traded to Houston (HOU) from Buffalo (BUF) with 2025 5th round pick and 2024 6th round pick (#189 - traded) for 2025 2nd round pick
• Keenan Allen (WR)Mar 14, 2024 - Traded to Chicago (CHI) from Los Angeles (LAC) for 2024 4th round pick (#110 - traded)
• Rondale Moore (WR)Mar 14, 2024 - Traded to Atlanta (ATL) from Arizona (ARI) for Desmond Ridder
• Diontae Johnson (WR)Mar 12, 2024 - Traded to Carolina (CAR) from Pittsburgh (PIT) with 2024 7th round pick (#240 Michael Barrett) for Donte Jackson and 2024 6th round pick (#178 Logan Lee)
• Jerry Jeudy (WR)Mar 09, 2024 - Traded to Cleveland (CLE) from Denver (DEN) for 2024 5th round pick (#136 - traded) and 2024 6th round pick (#203 - traded)

11 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Actually 4 drafts

2021: DeVonta Smith, Landon Dickerson, Milton Williams, Kenneth Gainwell.

2022: Jordan Davis, Cam Jurgens, Nakokbe Dean, Grant Calcaterra.

2023: Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith, Tyler Steen, Moro Ojomo.

2024: Quinyon Mitchell, Cooper DeJean, Jalyx Hunt.

Left out Shipley.(2024),Trotter (2024), McKee (2023), Ringo (2023), Blankenship, McCollum (UDFA-2022)

Key depth players and one starter. STs matter.

 

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Oh, I'm not killing Howie at all even if I think the 3rd was a little steep. I agree, Dotson is good insurance in case of injuries, but even when both Brown and Smith were injured, Dotson was invisible.

However, there were 13 trades for WR last year. The only WR that cost more than Dotson was Stefon Diggs, who was traded along with 5th and 6th for a 2nd...to be WR1. Out of all those trades, the only WR who performed worse than Dotson was Ben Skowronek (no, I didn't make this name up). 

Cooper, Allen, Jeudy, Adams and Diggs were all traded to be WR1 and all cost less (with exception to Diggs) than the Eagles paid for Dotson to be WR3, when we know the Eagles don't use WR3.

 

Results: 13

• Mike Williams (WR)Nov 05, 2024 - Traded to Pittsburgh (PIT) from New York (NYJ) for 2025 5th round pick
• Jonathan Mingo (WR)Nov 05, 2024 - Traded to Dallas (DAL) from Carolina (CAR) with 2025 7th round pick for 2025 4th round pick
• Diontae Johnson (WR)Oct 29, 2024 - Traded to Baltimore (BAL) from Carolina (CAR) with 2025 6th round pick for 2025 5th round pick
• DeAndre Hopkins (WR)Oct 23, 2024 - Traded to Kansas City (KC) from Tennessee (TEN) for 2025 5th round pick [Conveys to a 4th if KC makes the Super Bowl & Hopkins plays 60% regular season snaps]
• Amari Cooper (WR)Oct 15, 2024 - Traded to Buffalo (BUF) from Cleveland (CLE) with 2025 6th round pick for 2025 3rd round pick [(from DET)] and 2026 7th round pick
• Davante Adams (WR)Oct 15, 2024 - Traded to New York (NYJ) from Las Vegas (LV) for 2025 3rd round pick [Conveys to a 2nd Rd Pick if Adams is an All-Pro, or active for the AFC Championship Game/Super Bowl]
• Jahan Dotson (WR)Aug 22, 2024 - Traded to Philadelphia (PHI) from Washington (WAS) with 2025 5th round pick for 2025 3rd round pick [Conditional] , 2025 7th round pick [from NO] and 2025 7th round pick [from DEN]
• Ben Skowronek (WR)May 09, 2024 - Traded to Houston (HOU) from Los Angeles (LAR) with 2026 7th round pick for 2026 6th round pick
• Stefon Diggs (WR)Apr 03, 2024 - Traded to Houston (HOU) from Buffalo (BUF) with 2025 5th round pick and 2024 6th round pick (#189 - traded) for 2025 2nd round pick
• Keenan Allen (WR)Mar 14, 2024 - Traded to Chicago (CHI) from Los Angeles (LAC) for 2024 4th round pick (#110 - traded)
• Rondale Moore (WR)Mar 14, 2024 - Traded to Atlanta (ATL) from Arizona (ARI) for Desmond Ridder
• Diontae Johnson (WR)Mar 12, 2024 - Traded to Carolina (CAR) from Pittsburgh (PIT) with 2024 7th round pick (#240 Michael Barrett) for Donte Jackson and 2024 6th round pick (#178 Logan Lee)
• Jerry Jeudy (WR)Mar 09, 2024 - Traded to Cleveland (CLE) from Denver (DEN) for 2024 5th round pick (#136 - traded) and 2024 6th round pick (#203 - traded)

Have to look at cap implications of some of these trades, and a starting WR would be a bad fit in this clubhouse.

Just now, austinfan said:

Have to look at cap implications of some of these trades, and a starting WR would be a bad fit in this clubhouse.

I know, and I wasn't implying I wanted any of those players, I didn't. I'm simply looking at draft capital used to acquire players of a certain capability. The only players on that list who would have made sense for the Eagles IMO were Rondale Moore (who is electric out of the slot but had a season ending injury) and Mike Williams, who would present a mismatch as WR3.

2 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

We knew Pickett sucked

But the reality is that Pickett didn’t suck when called upon.

I'll just ignore the ad nauseum discussions on Pickett & Dotson.  Any thoughts on the next QB coach?

8 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Oh, I'm not killing Howie at all even if I think the 3rd was a little steep. I agree, Dotson is good insurance in case of injuries, but even when both Brown and Smith were injured, Dotson was invisible.

However, there were 13 trades for WR last year. The only WR that cost more than Dotson was Stefon Diggs, who was traded along with 5th and 6th for a 2nd...to be WR1. Out of all those trades, the only WR who performed worse than Dotson was Ben Skowronek (no, I didn't make this name up). 

Cooper, Allen, Jeudy, Adams and Diggs were all traded to be WR1 and all cost less (with exception to Diggs) than the Eagles paid for Dotson to be WR3, when we know the Eagles don't use WR3.

 

Results: 13

• Mike Williams (WR)Nov 05, 2024 - Traded to Pittsburgh (PIT) from New York (NYJ) for 2025 5th round pick
• Jonathan Mingo (WR)Nov 05, 2024 - Traded to Dallas (DAL) from Carolina (CAR) with 2025 7th round pick for 2025 4th round pick
• Diontae Johnson (WR)Oct 29, 2024 - Traded to Baltimore (BAL) from Carolina (CAR) with 2025 6th round pick for 2025 5th round pick
• DeAndre Hopkins (WR)Oct 23, 2024 - Traded to Kansas City (KC) from Tennessee (TEN) for 2025 5th round pick [Conveys to a 4th if KC makes the Super Bowl & Hopkins plays 60% regular season snaps]
• Amari Cooper (WR)Oct 15, 2024 - Traded to Buffalo (BUF) from Cleveland (CLE) with 2025 6th round pick for 2025 3rd round pick [(from DET)] and 2026 7th round pick
• Davante Adams (WR)Oct 15, 2024 - Traded to New York (NYJ) from Las Vegas (LV) for 2025 3rd round pick [Conveys to a 2nd Rd Pick if Adams is an All-Pro, or active for the AFC Championship Game/Super Bowl]
• Jahan Dotson (WR)Aug 22, 2024 - Traded to Philadelphia (PHI) from Washington (WAS) with 2025 5th round pick for 2025 3rd round pick [Conditional] , 2025 7th round pick [from NO] and 2025 7th round pick [from DEN]
• Ben Skowronek (WR)May 09, 2024 - Traded to Houston (HOU) from Los Angeles (LAR) with 2026 7th round pick for 2026 6th round pick
• Stefon Diggs (WR)Apr 03, 2024 - Traded to Houston (HOU) from Buffalo (BUF) with 2025 5th round pick and 2024 6th round pick (#189 - traded) for 2025 2nd round pick
• Keenan Allen (WR)Mar 14, 2024 - Traded to Chicago (CHI) from Los Angeles (LAC) for 2024 4th round pick (#110 - traded)
• Rondale Moore (WR)Mar 14, 2024 - Traded to Atlanta (ATL) from Arizona (ARI) for Desmond Ridder
• Diontae Johnson (WR)Mar 12, 2024 - Traded to Carolina (CAR) from Pittsburgh (PIT) with 2024 7th round pick (#240 Michael Barrett) for Donte Jackson and 2024 6th round pick (#178 Logan Lee)
• Jerry Jeudy (WR)Mar 09, 2024 - Traded to Cleveland (CLE) from Denver (DEN) for 2024 5th round pick (#136 - traded) and 2024 6th round pick (#203 - traded)

You need to include contract length and cost to your trade compensation analysis.

We also need to recognize that Hurts didn't trust Dotson early in the season nor is Hurts a progression QB.

Dotson looked like a competent receiver in week 18 when he was the first read.

Finally, we just won the Super Bowl.

12 hours ago, ManuManu said:

How many GMs are better than Howie?   He’s not going to bat 1.000, and he’s gonna whiff a few times, but we’re really nitpicking a guy with three SB appearances and two championships since 2017. 

it's the same thing that happens with Hurts. People act like the guy can do no wrong and so it gets pointed out the wrong he's done

Then people are defending Howie and attacking the person that pointed out the things wrong

Same damn cycle

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

He's owned the team for 30 years.  We've gone to 4 Super Bowls with him owning it and winning it twice.   I think we are past the time of calling him "Laurie".   

Laurie:

 

LURIE:

Autocorrect doesn't like Lurie

2 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

You need to include contract length and cost to your trade compensation analysis.

We also need to recognize that Hurts didn't trust Dotson early in the season nor is Hurts a progression QB.

Dotson looked like a competent receiver in week 18 when he was the first read.

Finally, we just won the Super Bowl.

I’m pretty sure all those WRs besides Dotson, Adams and mingo were on the last year of their contracts. Although Adams was always more likely to be cut with with the massive cap savings at the end of 2024 season when jets were likely also moving on from Rodgers

 

1 hour ago, RLC said:

Focusing on the misses (Bradberry's 2nd contract, Huff, Devin White, Davis over McDuffie/Hamilton) is missing the forest from the trees.

Agreed.  It is also allowing the pursuit of perfection to obscure the very, very good,

5 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

it's the same thing that happens with Hurts. People act like the guy can do no wrong and so it gets pointed out the wrong he's done

Then people are defending Howie and attacking the person that pointed out the things wrong

Same damn cycle

It's not that people think they can do no wrong. It's that focusing on the wrong after a blowout Super Bowl win after a blowout NFCCG win seems like it's an obsession with negativity at this point.

1 minute ago, pgcd3 said:

It's not that people think they can do no wrong. It's that focusing on the wrong after a blowout Super Bowl win after a blowout NFCCG win seems like it's an obsession with negativity at this point.

I saw no complaints after the NFCCG or SB 🤷‍♂️

6 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

it's the same thing that happens with Hurts. People act like the guy can do no wrong and so it gets pointed out the wrong he's done

Then people are defending Howie and attacking the person that pointed out the things wrong

Same damn cycle

I think with Hurts it's more overall ability, not specific plays.

With Howie, it's specific transactions, not his overall ability.

 

Jeffrie Lowry 

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Jeffrie Lowry 

He related to Mike Lowry? Police officer in Miami Dade county? 

3 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I saw no complaints after the NFCCG or SB 🤷‍♂️

I think talking about an overpay for Pickett or Dotson 7 sleeps after a blowout SB win is a focus on the negative.

5 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

It's not that people think they can do no wrong. It's that focusing on the wrong after a blowout Super Bowl win after a blowout NFCCG win seems like it's an obsession with negativity at this point.

I think it's fine to go back and look at moves and compare to others that were made. I haven't seen anyone complaining about Howie, just discussing the perceived values of players and such.

44 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Very true though we will never know until he gets a shot.  I have no problem with Pickett as the backup but it seems like a chance to get some draft capital and still feel good about McKee as the backup.  I think Howie should be able to find another vet out there for no more money than Kenny who can be the #3 and insurance policy if necessary.

Finding another vet would not be my preference.  If Pickett is traded I would prefer drafting a developmental QB like Kyle McCord from Syracuse … like McKee was taken two years ago