8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Another topic who’s on the biggest eagles biggest bust MT Rushmore lol (whether draft or FA or trade)

Nnamdi's up there. Kevin Allen probably the safest pick.  Danny Watkins is recent but man that was a BIG one.  Michael Haddix is an older one but part of that was the guys they passed on to get him so I'm not sure how fair that is.

40 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

He had a lot of great moments but the last memories of him were false starts and struggling on other teams

And trying to extort the team when they wanted him to move from RG to LT.   That never sat right with me.

28 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don’t think they can do that though since he’s not under contract. If @Iggles_Phan is correct and his contract automatically voided at the start of the league year then it all hits in 2025. I don’t remember if he had a dummy year tacked on.

I'm likely wrong.  Knowing Howie, he likely did some funny business with the contract, even if it didn't make news, once Graham made the announcement that this was his last year, if it was all going to hit in 2025.   Howie wouldn't let an opportunity to kick it down the road escape that easily.   

25 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Another topic who’s on the biggest eagles biggest bust MT Rushmore lol (whether draft or FA or trade)

 

15 minutes ago, just relax said:

Kevin Allen. No one close. Is he out of prison yet?

Yup.   Kevin Allen gets two spots on the list, IMO.  Bruce Walker, Jon Harris, Leroy Keyes might get an honorable mention, but doesn't quite make that cut.   Bernard Williams, Leonard Renfro, Antone Davis, Kenny Jackson... so many options.      How did we live through that dreck?!

22 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Disagreement.  Mike Schmidt was the greatest position player in Phillies history.   Steve Carlton was the greatest pitcher in Phillies history.   Pitchers and position players are separate categories and can't really be co-mingled.   Van Buren was easily, in my mind, the greatest offensive player in team history.    And Reggie White was easily, in my mind, the greatest defensive player in team history.   Again, gotta keep them separated, its just so different.

I would agree with you about Steve Carlton being the best pitcher in Phillies history. But I have seen a lot of people make the case for robin Roberts. Bunch of lists with him as best and no. 2 behind Schmidt.

I view it kind of this way with Mike Schmidt, if somebody asked who was just the greatest Phillie of all time whether it be a pitcher or a position player, I’m thinking Mike Schmidt is gonna be the runaway number one answer. I don’t think Van Buren is if you asked the same question to the eagles. 

I think the fascinating topic is if you were making Mount Rushmore of Philadelphia sports athletes, I think it’d be hard for us to not have Mike Schmidt on there.

Peters might be a better NFL player, Lane is/was clearly a better Eagle. Peters time in Buffalo means nothing to the Eagles.

• All-Pro: Peters 4 Lane 5
• SB Wins: Peters 1* Lane 2
• Playoff wins: Peters 1 Lane 9
• 15+ game seasons:  Peters 5 Lane 7

Games played as an Eagle:  Peters 154 Lane 173+

Peters was a fantastic regular season LT when he was on the field. He won exactly 1 playoff game and the offense scored 16 points.

 

42 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Another topic who’s on the biggest eagles biggest bust MT Rushmore lol (whether draft or FA or trade)

Off the top of my head - Danny Watkins, Marcus Smith, Jalen Reagor, Byron Maxwell w/ a nod to Asomugha. These were all 1st round draft picks and/or extremely high paid FA’s, and they didn’t just suck here…..they were unplayable. 

23 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I would agree with you about Steve Carlton being the best pitcher in Phillies history. But I have seen a lot of people make the case for robin Roberts. Bunch of lists with him as best and no. 2 behind Schmidt.

I view it kind of this way with Mike Schmidt, if somebody asked who was just the greatest Phillie of all time whether it be a pitcher or a position player, I’m thinking Mike Schmidt is gonna be the runaway number one answer. I don’t think Van Buren is if you asked the same question to the eagles. 

I've seen that too.  But, I'd make the argument that Lefty was the greatest left handed pitcher in MLB history.  🤷‍♂️. Hard to say, Carlton was mostly before my time... and Roberts was way before my time.   Roberts played in a very different era, when these guys just got the ball constantly.  Lefty got it a ton on 4 days... Roberts got it even more often than that.   But, even with Lefty pitching way too long, he still had a better ERA than Roberts, gave up fewer HRs in an era where HRs were far more common than Roberts' era... and struck out way more batters, both total, and per 9 innings.  I just think Lefty was the more dominant pitcher.  

 

Then again, the issue is how many people alive today actually saw Roberts pitch?   Same for Van Buren.  His day was 1948 and 1949.  How many people alive today really saw him play?   Most games weren't even televised, but if you go by league accomplishments, Van Buren is right there with White.  Just as White rewrote the record book for defensive players with more sacks than games played... Van Buren was the undisputed greatest RB in the league at a time when running the ball was the primary mode for moving the ball... and everyone knew he was going to get the ball, and were gearing up to stop him.  But he still dominated.   He was Jim Brown, before Jim Brown, from all the accounts I've read and heard from those who watched both play.

https://www.profootballhof.com/players/steve-van-buren/

 

42 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Another topic who’s on the biggest eagles biggest bust MT Rushmore lol (whether draft or FA or trade)

Off the top of my head - Danny Watkins, Marcus Smith, Jalen Reagor, Byron Maxwell w/ a nod to Asomugha. These were all 1st round draft picks and/or extremely high paid FA’s, and they didn’t just suck here…..they were unplayable. 

Lane has been set and forget against Hall of Fame pass rushers for over a decade. He’s one of the best football players I’ve ever seen.

Lane Johnson >> JP

24 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I would agree with you about Steve Carlton being the best pitcher in Phillies history. But I have seen a lot of people make the case for robin Roberts. Bunch of lists with him as best and no. 2 behind Schmidt.

I view it kind of this way with Mike Schmidt, if somebody asked who was just the greatest Phillie of all time whether it be a pitcher or a position player, I’m thinking Mike Schmidt is gonna be the runaway number one answer. I don’t think Van Buren is if you asked the same question to the eagles. 

On that topic, the Phillies Mt. Rushmore was always clear for me for the longest time... Robin Roberts and Richie Ashburn from the 1950 era team.   Schmidt and Carlton from the 1980 team.   With the championship in 2008, I've never been able to figure out where to place those guys.   Where does Rollins, Howard, Utley, and Hamels fit?   Those are easily the 4 from that era, but which ones push their way past the other 4 that had so much longevity and their own level of dominance?   I can't put Howard there, because as great as he was, it seemed so short lived.  Schmidt played 17 years here.  Does Howard bump Ashburn out?   Ashburn played 12 years in Philly, and had 4 All-Star appearances.  Howard was Rookie of the Year, MVP but only had 3 All-Star years.     Does Hamels' 9.5 years with the Phillies, and his absolutely dominant 2008 post-season push him past Lefty or Roberts?   Both had much more longevity and were truly dominant for longer.  I can't push him over them.     And then Rollins and Utley... where do they fall?     Only having 4 for Mt. Rushmore is so limiting and frustrating!!!   An impossible task, really... for any franchise to limit it to 4.  Any franchise with anything worth celebrating should have more than 4 guys to consider.  

Just now, WentzFan11 said:

Lane Johnson >> JP

For sure. JP lost a lot of respect for taking himself out of games, and then refusing to do whats best for the team. He was a HOF talent who played here, but he was never an eagle like Dawkins, Kelce, and Graham were, or like Lane is.

7 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Lane has been set and forget against Hall of Fame pass rushers for over a decade. He’s one of the best football players I’ve ever seen.

I said earlier if things go well and how his contract is set up for Lane he is gonna wind up playing 15 years for the Eagles. He is gonna have the most regular season games played if he stays healthy, potentially most postseason games played (only 4 away) and most total games (assuming he doesn’t have major injuries). he’s a hall of famer and might finish with more than 2 SBs.

32 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think the fascinating topic is if you were making Mount Rushmore of Philadelphia sports athletes, I think it’d be hard for us to not have Mike Schmidt on there.

Yeah... that's true.   But for the Eagles... as great as Reggie was, and he's clearly the only one in competition with Van Buren in my mind... he spent half his career elsewhere.  Van Buren spent all 8 years here.  (Ironically, Reggie also played 8 years here, but had 2 with the Showboats, 6 with the Packers and 1 with the Panthers.).  White was as dominant as they come, but for me... I think Van Buren still gets the nod.   And then you can wonder about if they should be including Bednarik...  But I still go Van Buren.

All-time Philadelphia Mt. Rushmore, only really fair, IMO with 1 rep for each franchise.

Wilt, Van Buren, Schmidt and Parent.

Second team:

Dr. J, White, Carlton, Clarke

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

For sure. JP lost a lot of respect for taking himself out of games, and then refusing to do whats best for the team. He was a HOF talent who played here, but he was never an eagle like Dawkins, Kelce, and Graham were, or like Lane is.

He was a mercenary.  

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

He was a mercenary.  

yeah. he happened to be here for a while. We were lucky the money was right. He never cared about the fans or the city like those other true eagles did. And he was a chicken when things werent to his liking, hiding on the sidelines.

46 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Nnamdi's up there. Kevin Allen probably the safest pick.  Danny Watkins is recent but man that was a BIG one.  Michael Haddix is an older one but part of that was the guys they passed on to get him so I'm not sure how fair that is.

Haddix was a horrible pick and decision when viewed under the lens of Jaworski closing in on 34 (which would be equivalent to 39 or 40 today) in an historic QB draft.  Especially considering drafted QBs sat for two years routinely in those days 

26 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

On that topic, the Phillies Mt. Rushmore was always clear for me for the longest time... Robin Roberts and Richie Ashburn from the 1950 era team.   Schmidt and Carlton from the 1980 team.   With the championship in 2008, I've never been able to figure out where to place those guys.   Where does Rollins, Howard, Utley, and Hamels fit?   Those are easily the 4 from that era, but which ones push their way past the other 4 that had so much longevity and their own level of dominance?   I can't put Howard there, because as great as he was, it seemed so short lived.  Schmidt played 17 years here.  Does Howard bump Ashburn out?   Ashburn played 12 years in Philly, and had 4 All-Star appearances.  Howard was Rookie of the Year, MVP but only had 3 All-Star years.     Does Hamels' 9.5 years with the Phillies, and his absolutely dominant 2008 post-season push him past Lefty or Roberts?   Both had much more longevity and were truly dominant for longer.  I can't push him over them.     And then Rollins and Utley... where do they fall?     Only having 4 for Mt. Rushmore is so limiting and frustrating!!!   An impossible task, really... for any franchise to limit it to 4.  Any franchise with anything worth celebrating should have more than 4 guys to consider.  

The thing with Howard is his torn his Achilles and his decline was so sharp that most will never put him ahead of Rollins and utley. I went and thankfully got to see him from 2006 to 2010, he was awesome the . The closest player in my lifetime I could say when Ryan Howard was at his peak is Bryce Harper. That’s what it felt like watching Ryan Howard go to the plate. During that stretch especially in 2006-2008 you thought he was gonna hit a home run almost every time.

Phillie fans will all say Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley ahead of them and it’s probably because they lasted longer in their primes or just gravitating to those guys. Also hurts Howard is fans saw the decline and injury right when that contract began. I feel awful for him because if that Achilles never snapped his career could’ve looked so much different

i love cole hamels. He was incredible during that 08 run I think something that fan still harp on him for was that 2009 season particularly the World Series where he wasn’t good and then during the World Series he was like I can’t wait for the season to be over or something like that. And people still hold it against them. I don’t hold that against him. I get why he said it. Probably shouldn’t have but i got it. I kind of thought the following year he was gonna hit a wall because he never pitched that amount of innings so it was eventually going to catch up to him. And he Was much better after that year. Hamels kind of gets overshadowed from 09-2011 cause Lee and halladay were so great when they were here

it’s gonna be interesting when Zach Wheeler and Bryce are done with their careers. Cause Zach Wheeler might have the best postseason numbers of any Phillies pitcher in Phillies history when he’s done. Frankly, he should’ve won a cy young a couple years back and last year he was 2nd but clearly dominant enough too. Bryce Harper is gonna break a lot of records in a Phillies uniform. he’s had some iconic moments. That mt Rushmore is going to be really hard in a couple years cause id have Schmidt and Carlton on there. I’d have Roberts now. 4th is tough and even tougher when both those guys are done 

10 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I said earlier if things go well and how his contract is set up for Lane he is gonna wind up playing 15 years for the Eagles. He is gonna have the most regular season games played if he stays healthy, potentially most postseason games played (only 4 away) and most total games (assuming he doesn’t have major injuries). he’s a hall of famer and might finish with more than 2 SBs.

I think if a lot of us were better at not letting nostalgia and fear of recency bias cloud our judgment, we'd be having pretty lofty conversations about just how great Lane's career has been.

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah... that's true.   But for the Eagles... as great as Reggie was, and he's clearly the only one in competition with Van Buren in my mind... he spent half his career elsewhere.  Van Buren spent all 8 years here.  (Ironically, Reggie also played 8 years here, but had 2 with the Showboats, 6 with the Packers and 1 with the Panthers.).  White was as dominant as they come, but for me... I think Van Buren still gets the nod.   And then you can wonder about if they should be including Bednarik...  But I still go Van Buren.

All-time Philadelphia Mt. Rushmore, only really fair, IMO with 1 rep for each franchise.

Wilt, Van Buren, Schmidt and Parent.

Second team:

Dr. J, White, Carlton, Clarke

If i was going 1 from each id probably go

wilt, Schmidt, Reggie and Clarke (tbh it’s a toss up for me between Clarke and parent)

second:

Dr. j, Carlton, parent and bednarik  

1 minute ago, Saltpeter said:

I think if a lot of us were better at not letting nostalgia and fear of recency bias cloud our judgment, we'd be having pretty lofty conversations about just how great Lane's career has been.

I wanted to say this in my previous post and I stopped myself, but I think he’s actually underrated player in an NFL over the last 20 years. Not so much from Eagles fans because we know understand and appreciate great he was and is. I think NFL fans and people view Jason Kelce the way that he should be viewed. I don’t think that’s necessarily the case with Lane. He’s view has very good and some view him as great. But i still think he’s underappreciated for just how consistently good he has been when he is healthy since coming into the league

I just think it’s crazy to think about that if he stays healthy the next three years and plays close to the level he’s at right now, that 15 years in the league he was great ( if not the best at his position for many years) from start to finish. The only times he struggled was when he got hurt otherwise he was consistently great for us 

Over his first 11 seasons with the Phillies, Carlton won 4 Cy Youngs, had an average record of 19-11, 16 complete games, and 226 strikeouts over 274 innings.

In 1972, he owned 27 of the team's 59 wins.  Completed 30 of his 41 starts.  Won the Cy Young and the pitching triple crown.  It was the fourth greatest WAR season in the modern era.

Roberts was a great pitcher.  Carlton was greater.

An update on Aaron Rodgers.

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

 

I knew I could count on you to chime in on this post, lol.

I had a hard time deciding who to give 2 to. Dillon wore it in college, so did Adore Jackson, and based on his time with PSU and Washington I figured one of the  single digit numbers made sense for Dotson. This would also free up 83 for Granson which is what he wore with SMU and in Indy. Anyway, I could see Dillon going with 2 or 8 since he was 28 in Green Bay which effects everyone else. 24 makes sense for Jackson if he doesn't get one of the single digit numbers, mainly 2.

I chose 80 for Bryant because he worse 40 in college, and obviously that is retired and not available for him here. Neither is 84 and as of now 88 which he has worn in the NFL.

Uche was a tough one to figure out having worn 55 in the NFL and 6 in college and neither of them or 56 being available. Ojulari seems like a lock for 13, as well as Green with 76. If DTR doesn't one of the single digit numbers which I imagine will be in high demand, he is stuck choosing between 14, 18, and 19.