4 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

And while we assume we have one, he chooses not to play him. Which can only lead you to believe they are disappointed in his performance, or more likely conditioning since his performance looks pretty good in the limited time he actually plays.

Fangio plays a NT on plays where he is trying to establish dominance over the opposing team.  Once that dominance is established and the likelihood of a running play is reduced to close to zero, the NT no longer is necessary.  But absent an effective NT you never get your that point.

Case in point, the Chiefs ran 11 times and dropped back to pass 38 times.  Further, 4 of the 11were runs by Mahomes, which were probably passing plays that devolved into scrambles.So the real ratio was 7 runs compared to 42 passing plays.  That is a 6:1 ratio.

2 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Fangio plays a NT on plays where he is trying to establish dominance over the opposing team.  Once that dominance is established and the likelihood of a running play is reduced to close to zero, the NZt no longer is necessary.  But absent an effective NT you never get your that point.

Yeah. Thats not whats expected from a player who you trade up to pick 13 to acquire. The expectation is that he takes his immense physical abilities and develops as a pass rusher as well. Which is why people have reasonably stated that for where he was drafted, he can be considered disappointing. 

Now this is going in circles. 

 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Yeah. Thats not whats expected from a player who you trade up to pick 13 to acquire. The expectation is that he takes his immense physical abilities and develops as a pass rusher as well. Which is why people have reasonably stated that for where he was drafted, he can be considered disappointing. 

Now this is going in circles. 

 

Howie himself said as much. "There's no doubt about it. I mean, if you're drafting this guy who’s great enough… he's got to have value on third down and he's got all the tools in his body to affect the quarterback.“

27 minutes ago, just relax said:

No, it’s not. If you judge a player at a single moment and set that as his worth you are, inevitably, wrong. I offer as Exhibit One, Isaac Seumalo. Exhibit Two, Nolan Smith. Both were judged as busts here and don’t deny it. That judgment was what I termed a snapshot judgment, a frozen moment, which was, inevitably, wrong. 
Well, not inevitably, but most often. Players improve. 

I don’t think anyone has come close to judging by a single moment. It’s 3 years of evidence. If someone made the argument he’s a bust because he did nothing in the 2023 playoff game and the Bucs ran for over 4 YPC, it would apply. 

I guess I can see if you meant it’s a snapshot of his overall career. But even with that you can judge the player for what’s he’s done so far as long as you keep your opinions somewhat objective moving forward. New evidence can change the evaluation, for anyone or anything. 

29 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Yea I know he values it, I just don’t remember a quote like that from him other than when he singled out ILB. 

Just looking at the snaps, it’s interesting how one of the changes coming out of the bye that turned the team around doesn’t get mentioned much. It’s taking Davis off the field. He was basically at 50% the first four weeks and then after the bye he was mostly in the 30’s %. So while I agree it’s important, he’s also made it clear there are limitations with how important. 

I'm raking my brain trying to figure out where I heard him said that.  It might have been on Sirius XM as I listen all the time when I am driving or social media.  

At the end of the day, I think Howie picks up the fifth year option.  If it allows Fangio to keep his safeties in a two high shell on obvious running downs, it makes it a lot harder on the offense to figure out the defense.  From what I have read that is the biggest thing with his style of defense.  Being able to stop the run without having to commit a safety to the box allows him to be multiple in his coverages without tipping off the QB.  Davis definitely showed improvement in the postseason rushing the passer so that's an added bonus.

People will discuss what they want and it’s a slow time but the Jordan Davis discussion bores me.  

17 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Yeah. Thats not whats expected from a player who you trade up to pick 13 to acquire. The expectation is that he takes his immense physical abilities and develops as a pass rusher as well. Which is why people have reasonably stated that for where he was drafted, he can be considered disappointing. 

Now this is going in circles. 

 

Yup, taking Davis at 13, one is expecting Vita Vea, Dexter Lawrence out put, those guys arent just dominant against the run but they push the pocket and can pressure the qb, Davis hasnt shown the ability to consistently pressure the qb nor consistently be able to play more snaps.

23 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Honest NFL definitely has talked up the importance NT in the Fangio gap and a half scheme, and how that allows him to keep a two safety shell. In a lot of ways, Akiem Hicks was just as important to Fangio’s Bears defense as Mack and Smith. The difference, of course, was Honest NFL’s projection of Davis eventually impacting the passing game like Hicks. That hasn’t happened, and I’m not particularly optimistic he’ll figure it out. 

I suspect Howie will pick up the fifth-year option. He picked up Barnett’s, and Davis is a much better player. Davis clearly is a useful player and there is still some theoretical untapped potential. 

If he decides to pick it up or not doesn’t make much of a difference to me. But if they do, I think they need to extend him off it because he’s not worth the $13M cap charge for one year. 

8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don’t think anyone has come close to judging by a single moment. It’s 3 years of evidence. If someone made the argument he’s a bust because he did nothing in the 2023 playoff game and the Bucs ran for over 4 YPC, it would apply. 

I guess I can see if you meant it’s a snapshot of his overall career. But even with that you can judge the player for what’s he’s done so far as long as you keep your opinions somewhat objective moving forward. New evidence can change the evaluation, for anyone or anything. 

Fair enough. However, I offer as another example, the Eagles recent signing Matt Pryor. Immediately thereafter came a post: "Matt Pryor sucks.” I have no interest in who posted it but it drives home my point: judgment of that player was made in a snapshot. He is what he once was and will never be anything else.

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Yup, taking Davis at 13, one is expecting Vita Vea, Dexter Lawrence out put, those guys arent just dominant against the run but they push the pocket and can pressure the qb, Davis hasnt shown the ability to consistently pressure the qb nor consistently be able to play more snaps.

Nope. In spurts yes. Im optimistic that Hurtt is optimistic. I hope next year can be his breakout year. But, prior to this season I remember someone saying it took Lawrence 3 years. So last year should have been that time for Davis. Now, maybe next year. Soon, gonna run out of years to hope. He really has to take that next step this season coming up.

24 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Yeah. Thats not whats expected from a player who you trade up to pick 13 to acquire. The expectation is that he takes his immense physical abilities and develops as a pass rusher as well. Which is why people have reasonably stated that for where he was drafted, he can be considered disappointing. 

Now this is going in circles. 

 

So I gather he has not improved to your standards?

 

27 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Fangio plays a NT on plays where he is trying to establish dominance over the opposing team.  Once that dominance is established and the likelihood of a running play is reduced to close to zero, the NZt no longer is necessary.  But absent an effective NT you never get your that point.

The run defense splits by quarter don’t support that. 

2 minutes ago, just relax said:

Fair enough. However, I offer as another example, the Eagles recent signing Matt Pryor. Immediately thereafter came a post: "Matt Pryor sucks.” I have no interest in who posted it but it drives home my point: judgment of that player was made in a snapshot. He is what he once was and will never be anything else.

Well it was me so gee thanks 

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Well it was me so gee thanks 

Didn’t know that.

55 minutes ago, just relax said:

$12.9M in 2026 is a pittance.

It would be the 4th highest cap number on the team, as of right now.   (5th if they don't do anything with Goedert's contract.)

27 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

If you haven't seen the 'announcement', when we do the upcoming upgrade, you won't be able to log in using your username anymore. You'll have to use the email address that you used to register. 

I'm hoping that the upgrade will resolve some of the issues we're experiencing with lag time and embedding.

So make sure that you know which email address that you used. 

If anyone forgot which email address they used, PM me and I can confirm for you.  Also if you need me to change it, I can do that as well.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It would be the 4th highest cap number on the team, as of right now.   (5th if they don't do anything with Goedert's contract.)

Thank you. I was going to look it up and got lazy. 

5 minutes ago, just relax said:

So I gather he has not improved to your standards?

 

More importantly he hasn’t improved to Howie’s standards.

3 minutes ago, just relax said:

Didn’t know that.

No big deal. I laughed. I’ll admit that comment had loaded preconceived notions. 

48 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

3 round mock.

Maxwell Hairston

Elijah Arroyo

Josaiah Stewart

 

I think I might be more impressed if they had us taking JS in the 1st and Hairston in the 3rd.

48 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Yea I know he values it, I just don’t remember a quote like that from him other than when he singled out ILB. 

Just looking at the snaps, it’s interesting how one of the changes coming out of the bye that turned the team around doesn’t get mentioned much. It’s taking Davis off the field. He was basically at 50% the first four weeks and then after the bye he was mostly in the 30’s %. So while I agree it’s important, he’s also made it clear there are limitations with how important. 

Look at the game scores after the Bye when compared to the game scores before the Bye.  

1 minute ago, just relax said:

So I gather he has not improved to your standards?

 

Whats most important is that he doesnt appear to have improved to the team's standards. Personally Im of the mind that many people underrate his performance- when he plays. You see him make some amazing plays, and them someone on here will ask if hes even been in the game.  But, for whatever reason (I assume conditioning issues) the team keeps him on the sideline an awful lot. So, the question of picking up the option is tricky. The question of an extension is more than tricky. Maybe a little scary.

The alternative is a rookie on a much, much smaller contract. What Davis can be is a high bar for a rookie to achieve. The amount of snaps he gives you is a fairly low bar for a rookie to be able to earn. This happens to be a draft with a bunch of big DTs who appear to have some pass rush chops, or the physical tools to develop them. It is a good year to look for his replacement. Which adds to the uncertainty by posing the additional question- Should they try looking for his replacement?

Wish he had his Dexter Lawrence year 3 breakout. If you wait for him to do it in year 4, you risk losing out on a bunch of nice NT prospects and then, what if he doesnt break out?

 

I lean towards his snap count not being worth 12 or 13M a year. Id like a DT who can potentially take his job, but I also hope Hurtt is right and Davis breaks out this season.

3 minutes ago, Moderator12 said:

If anyone forgot which email address they used, PM me and I can confirm for you.  Also if you need me to change it, I can do that as well.

Can I be changed to 2kewl4aid@philadelphiaeagles.com?

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

Look at the game scores after the Bye when compared to the game scores before the Bye.  

I did. The Eagles allowed fewer points the less Jordan Davis was on the field. 

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It would be the 4th highest cap number on the team, as of right now.   (5th if they don't do anything with Goedert's contract.)

Interesting.  Thanks for that.  It is helpful perspective.