8 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I get why you have optimism for Scourton. What I don't get is why you'd want him over some of the other guys who could be available in that range. In a vacuum I'd take Scourton on the Eagles I think he could be a good player. I wouldn't want him over Pearce, Ezeiruaku, Nolen, Mykel Williams, Jihaad Campbell, Mike Green, Derrick Harmon, etc.

Well, I didnt say that. I specifically said a few posts ago that he is second for me on the list of names that have visited so far. I prefer Ez. However, I can see the justification that athletic edge rushers will be available later, but these strong DE types to play the Graham role will not be on Scourton's level later.

Pearce isnt worth considering to me. I dont think he will be on the board. And I dont like his frame. To me, hes a slimmer version of Randy Gregory, who is only pretty good in the NFL and flames out with off field issues. 

Nolen will likely be gone. Campbell will likely be gone. Mike Green will likely be gone. 

Check out the bootleg football video on Draft Enigmas that I posted yesterday for more in depth discussion on Mykel Williams.

Derrick Harmon is another intriguing one. Id have to see how I rank him vs Scourton and Ezeiruaku. Has he visited? It seems like the eagles are mostly looking at NT type DTs which are valued lower than DEs and 5 tech DTs. 

Speaking of the draft enigmas, there was an interesting discussion about Will Campbell possibly making a great center. 

 

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Well, I didnt say that. I specifically said a few posts ago that he is second for me on the list of names that have visited so far. I prefer Ez. However, I can see the justification that athletic edge rushers will be available later, but these strong DE types to play the Graham role will not be on Scourton's level later.

Pearce isnt worth considering to me. I dont think he will be on the board. And I dont like his frame. To me, hes a slimmer version of Randy Gregory, who is only pretty good in the NFL and flames out with off field issues. 

Nolen will likely be gone. Campbell will likely be gone. Mike Green will likely be gone. 

Check out the bootleg football video on Draft Enigmas that I posted yesterday for more in depth discussion on Mykel Williams.

Derrick Harmon is another intriguing one. Id have to see how I rank him vs Scourton and Ezeiruaku. Has he visited? It seems like the eagles are mostly looking at NT type DTs which are valued lower than DEs and 5 tech DTs. 

Pearce and Nolen could be gone. All it takes is one team. Most mocks from the top pundits have them falling though. I'm not super high on Ezeiruaku either. An athletic thing for me. He didn't pop as much as I wanted him too when I watched him. Pearce popped, but I believe he only played 36% of snaps. Maybe that's why many mocks have him going low. Do teams view him as a part time pass rusher? If so, he's not a first round guy. You want 3 down Edge guys in round 1. I'm starting to see why Fran Duffy said he thinks this Edge class is a bit overrated. It's deep, but major drop off after Abdul Carter. Dream scenario is Mykel Williams or Jalon Walker fall.

A very interesting post from one of the Cowboys message boards … worth the read.

”Since Nick Sirianni (a.k.a. ****** Face) became head coach of the Eagles, he has been to the Super Bowl twice, winning one in his 4th year. His team has been in the playoffs every year. Yes, the coach we say is a joke, the coach we--me included--like to make fun of, has a 48-20 record, a .706 win%. How?

Let's take a look at the 2024 Eagles starting Super Bowl roster, a few key depth pieces, and see if we can find any similarity to our current roster. Listed for each player is draft position if drafted by the team.

Jalen Hurts—rd 2 (53)

Devonta Smith—rd 1 (10)

Dallas Goedart—rd 2 (49)

Jalen Carter—rd 1 (9)

Jordan Davis—rd 1 (13)

Josh Sweat—rd 4 (130)

Jordan Mailata—rd 7 (233)

Cam Jurgens—rd 2 (51)

Landon Dickerson—rd 2 (37)

Lane Johnson—rd 1 (4)

Nolan Smith—rd 1 (30)

Nakobe Dean—rd 3 (83)

Milton Williams—rd 3 (73)

Cooper Dejean—rd 2 (40) Rookie

Quinyon Mitchell—rd 1 (22) Rookie

Reed Blankenship—UDFA

Mehki Becton—FA bust

Zack Baun—FA never given a chance

AJ Brown—Trade

Saquan Barkley—FA

Darius Slay—FA

CJGJ—FA



Depth pieces that contributed:

Brandon Graham—rd 1 (13)

Moro Ojomo—rd 7 (249)

Jalyx Hunt—rd 3 (94) Rookie

Jeremiah Trotter Jr.—rd 5 (155) Rookie

Kenneth Gainwell—rd 5 (155)

Now before anyone points this out, yes, there is one constant here. Other than Lane Johnson and Brandon Graham, both Andy Reid picks, the entire team was assembled by Howie Roseman. So let's get this out of the way now: Howie Roseman is great at his job, despite some posters here saying that he is just average, gets lucky, and is in fact no better than any other GM. I'm sorry for saying this, but anyone at this point that still believes this is simply a fool.

Roster analysis shows a few interesting points. One is that Roseman knows when to trade back and get extra picks. He is not afraid to double down on certain positions, i.e. DT, or take the BPA despite already having quality at that position--something a few posters here would gag at. What he can't get in the draft, he gets through trades (Titans can go to hell for AJ Brown) or by pulling the trigger on FA signings big and small. He does what he can to plug every hole on the team with quality or players that he believes his coaches can coach up (Becton, Baun). Owner Jeff Lurie generally doesn't meddle with the draft, but it is interesting to note that Lurie pushed to draft Jalen Hurts because he believed he could be the next Russell Wilson (prime Russ, of course). The coaching staff also gives lower round picks a real chance if they see potential. When was the last time we had a Super Bowl winning team with two 7th round picks being major contributors besides the Chiefs?

I was bored and went back to see what we were saying about the Eagles before the season started. No one here thought the Eagles would win the Super Bowl, although many believed they would win the NFCE. Here are some other opinions by some posters, many of whom I like on this forum:

--Barkley is washed and that contract will kill them
--Steele will be better than Lane Johnson (I'm not outing this guy)
--Sirianni is an (insert insult here) and will soon be out of the league
--Roseman is fool's gold
--The loss of Kelce begins the decline of the Eagles
--Jalen Hurts sucks and his contract is almost as bad as Dak's
--Jalen Hurts is on his 7th OC in a row and will suck (the OC part is true, going back to college!)
--Darius Slay is old and can't play anymore
--They have no linebackers
--Nakobe Dean is a bust
--Nolan Smith is a bust
--Jordan Davis is a bust

On the flip side, there were more than a few posters saying the opposite, that those players are learning and the Eagles will always be a good team because they build from the trenches out. Many of us say this today, me included, as I am a huge advocate of inside/outside team building.

So what does any of this have to do with our own team? Let's look at our roster.

There is a lot of angst over our offensive line, with many opinions being tossed out daily. Do we have the talent the Eagles or Lions line does? No, of course not. But we have talent that can be put to use with proper coaching. We don't have a long-time vet like Johnson as a stable force, but Tyler Smith has emerged as our top notch vet talent. He is one of the best in the league at his position, and is a piece to build around. We see Beebe can be a PB caliber player once he develops. Will he be Creed Humphrey, Frank Ragnow, or Cam Jurgens? I don't know, but I see him reaching into the top five in two years. Let's not forget that Jurgens was thrown into the fire day one as a guard, playing next to and learning from Kelce for two years. Beebe didn't have that advantage but shows great promise.

Bottom line: Smith and Beebe will be the foundation of a very good line for us. We have raw talent to develop and still have the draft. Get tackle figured out and we will be fine. If the BPA is a tackle, don't say "Hey, we drafted one last year." No!!!! Take the player. How do you think teams like Philly, Detroit, and Baltimore got to have such good o-lines?? We can do the same.

Defensive line is a bit different. We have a lot of players to rotate in and out. How many DT's do we have that are real difference makers? Zero. Nada. If the BPA up is a DT, I don't care if we need a RB, WR, or edge. Fix the damn middle of the d-line! Yeah, there is no Jalen Carter to trade up for, but the DT rotation that won the last Super Bowl had two 1st, a 3rd, and a 7th! It doesn't matter how many shiny pieces you have on the outside if the middle of the trenches keep getting curb stomped against good teams.

Bottom line: It will take 2-3 years to get this team into anything resembling a team that has a chance to get to the NFCCG. It cannot be done without making sure both of our lines can compete with the best teams out there. If we have to spend half of the next two drafts on the lines, do it. If we have to double down on line positions, do it. It has to be done right or nothing else matters. Simply put, the majority of the teams that go deep in the playoffs have at least solid lines. We should too. It is no accident that the team that most resembles the 1992 Cowboys is the 2024 Eagles.

Now, do you trust our front office to do what is necessary? Do you believe in our coaching to get it done with the players we have?

I have a lot to say about other parts of the team, team building and coaching, but I have already written too much. I'll leave the super long posts to our resident novelist.”

1 minute ago, Sack that QB said:

Pearce and Nolen could be gone. All it takes is one team. Most mocks from the top pundits have them falling though. I'm not super high on Ezeiruaku either. An athletic thing for me. He didn't pop as much as I wanted him too when I watched him. Pearce popped, but I believe he only played 36% of snaps. Maybe that's why many mocks have him going low. Do teams view him as a part time pass rusher? If so, he's not a first round guy. You want 3 down Edge guys in round 1. I'm starting to see why Fran Duffy said he thinks this Edge class is a bit overrated. It's deep, but major drop off after Abdul Carter. Dream scenario is Mykel Williams or Jalon Walker fall.

I’m beginning to feel that Nic Scourton in Round 1 at Edge and Omar Norman-Lott in Round 2 is pretty close to ideal if Nolen is off the Board.  If Nolen is there at 32 and we take him,  then taking Josiah Stewart as the Round 2 Edge is my preference.

12 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Well, I didnt say that. I specifically said a few posts ago that he is second for me on the list of names that have visited so far. I prefer Ez. However, I can see the justification that athletic edge rushers will be available later, but these strong DE types to play the Graham role will not be on Scourton's level later.

Pearce isnt worth considering to me. I dont think he will be on the board. And I dont like his frame. To me, hes a slimmer version of Randy Gregory, who is only pretty good in the NFL and flames out with off field issues. 

Nolen will likely be gone. Campbell will likely be gone. Mike Green will likely be gone. 

Check out the bootleg football video on Draft Enigmas that I posted yesterday for more in depth discussion on Mykel Williams.

Derrick Harmon is another intriguing one. Id have to see how I rank him vs Scourton and Ezeiruaku. Has he visited? It seems like the eagles are mostly looking at NT type DTs which are valued lower than DEs and 5 tech DTs. 

Good assessment.  The Enigmas podcast cemented my thoughts about all the profiled players … great eye candy, but not someone you would want to bring home to meet your parents.

7 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I’m beginning to feel that Nic Scourton in Round 1 at Edge and Omar Norman-Lott in Round 2 is pretty close to ideal if Nolen is off the Board.  If Nolen is there at 32 and we take him,  then taking Josiah Stewart as the Round 2 Edge is my preference.

thats a beautiful 2 round outcome.

Interesting point raised about Norman-Lott yesterday- Tennessee either thought his run defense is so bad they didnt even want to see it, or, they just had bigger guys who rotated out. Kinda seems like thats what they did with Pearce too. Norman-Lott only had I think they said, 84?, run down snaps. His rush defense is an extreme unknown. On the other hand, he has enough size where you figure he should be able to do it. And his pass rush is fantastic. 

Here, he is a rotational player in year 1 while Jordan Davis and Jalen carter play early downs. You replace Davis with Norman-Lott on 3rd down and...hypothetical domination ensues.

You MIGHT have an absolute all around gem if you discover he can actually adequately play the run too.

5 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Sure.  And you get the leftovers rather than your preference.  I want the pick of the litter, not the runt no one else wanted.

Having bred, raised, and shown dogs my experience tells me that what you see in and around the litter box stage is often considerably different from what you get when the grown puppies step into the show ring as adults.  So I am circumspect about the terms "pick” and "runt”

 

Texas A&M by the way has another hidden athlete on the offensive side of the ball. 

TE- Shane Calhoun had a freakish pro day workout. He had pretty little production at East Carolina but for some reason transferred to the school of wasting athletes and ended up with 3 catches for 57 yards in 13 games. Far less than he was producing at East Carolina.

More of an H-back or maybe potentially FB convert at 6'2'' 243. 

There is absolutely nothing to find on youtube. And I doubt his name is showing up on most draft websites. Probably a UDFA to keep an eye on. 

8 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I’m beginning to feel that Nic Scourton in Round 1 at Edge and Omar Norman-Lott in Round 2 is pretty close to ideal if Nolen is off the Board.  If Nolen is there at 32 and we take him,  then taking Josiah Stewart as the Round 2 Edge is my preference.

Not for me. I'd rather go another position than Scourton. I'd rather have Starks, Kelvin Banks Jr or Donovan Jackson for example even though I think Edge is the biggest need. Would even rather have Derrick Harmon over Scourton.

4 hours ago, Waiting4Someday said:

There’s a bit of glass half empty and half full here. JD provides run proficiency now but there’s doubt that he’ll reach his ceiling as a 3-down player. While there’s confidence that CJ can rise to JD’s current level, but when? The FO met with CJ, so it is certainly a contingency and we’ve carried multiple NTs in 2022 despite the strain on the roster. I figure that Howie would prefer to extend JD over multiple years to avoid a Goedert-like lump in 2026, but if this isn’t done CJ might be drafted regardless of whether the club option is applied as he’ll need some time to develop (and we might not be able to afford JD once he hits FA).

One of the things I like about Omar Norman-Lott is that he can provide depth and production in both the Milton Williams role and the Jordan Davis role.

Just now, mattwill said:

One of the things I like about Omar Norman-Lott is that he can provide depth and production in both the Milton Williams role and the Jordan Davis role.

Not sure about Jordan Davis role, but hopefully we would find out that is the case.

 

Abdul Carter in a Giants uniform, after a life of being an Eagles fan, is tough. 

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Not for me. I'd rather go another position than Scourton. I'd rather have Starks, Kelvin Banks Jr or Donovan Jackson for example even though I think Edge is the biggest need. Would even rather have Derrick Harmon over Scourton.

Starks, yes … absolutely.  But Banks and/or Jackson is a waste of Draft resources.  Barring injury Lane is good for three seasons, so 60% of a Banks contract (75% if his fifth year option isn’t exercised) will be expired with only backup return on investment.  If you slide either Jackson or Banks into the starting RG slot you are squandering the value in Steen before even giving it a road test.  IMO that is a wasteful use of resources.

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Abdul Carter in a Giants uniform, after a life of being an Eagles fan, is tough. 

I have survived quite well despite Parsons being a life long eagles fan and wearing a cowboys uniform. I dont think this one will affect me either.

14 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Having bred, raised, and shown dogs my experience tells me that what you see in and around the litter box stage is often considerably different from what you get when the grown puppies step into the show ring as adults.  So I am circumspect about the terms "pick” and "runt”

 

figure of speech, Matt.

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Oh, I know all about Jefferson.   But, they weren't looking for a "WR", they were looking for a "speed" guy.  And they were wrong.   

But, the 'leftovers' argument is more about Marcus Smith II.  

It is a very worthy point.  I just hope that Marcus Smith is an exception rather than an example of "the rule”.

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

Starks, yes … absolutely.  But Banks and/or Jackson is a waste of Draft resources.  Barring injury Lane is good for three seasons, so 60% of a Banks contract (75% if his fifth year option isn’t exercised) will be expired with only backup return on investment.  If you slide either Jackson or Banks into the starting RG slot you are squandering the value in Steen before even giving it a road test.  IMO that is a wasteful use of resources.

Ideally I don't want OG with a first round pick, but the reality is the Eagles don't like Steen. It couldn't be more apparent. I'd rather have an OL I felt great about than an Edge I didn't even if I think Edge is a much bigger need. If Banks turns out to be a stud RG and can slide out to OT if Lane or Mailata have to miss time, that would be a very important pick even though it's more of a luxury.

We saw with Barnett last time they took a guy without elite athletic traits and he was a bust, then they go back to drafting more elite athletic traits in recent years and it's no coincidence that the Eagles draft success exploded. Some of it is probably luck too, but point being, on the DL give me elite athletes. If they're going there in round 1 I want guys who have elite tools in the body as Howie says. If they can't get that at DL at 32 I'd either trade up, trade back or take another position where I think you can get someone who is elite. Just keep drafting elite football players and this team will be great for years.

6 minutes ago, RLC said:

Abdul Carter in a Giants uniform, after a life of being an Eagles fan, is tough. 

First Saquon... then Carter?!   

 

 

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

figure of speech, Matt.

Understood, but given my Accounting/Finance training I know that figures sometimes lie and liars figure. Present company excepted of course.

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

Understood, but given my Accounting/Finance training I know that figures sometimes lie and liars figure. Present company excepted of course.

That's not what this is about at all... its about having your first choice of all the options, or having to choose amongst what others have picked over and rejected in favor of someone else.  Many times teams miss and leave the better players behind and select a lemon (yes, another figure of speech), but most of the time, the better players go faster.  

1 minute ago, Sack that QB said:

Ideally I don't want OG with a first round pick, but the reality is the Eagles don't like Steen. It couldn't be more apparent. I'd rather have an OL I felt great about than an Edge I didn't even if I think Edge is a much bigger need. If Banks turns out to be a stud RG and can slide out to OT if Lane or Mailata have to miss time, that would be a very important pick even though it's more of a luxury.

We saw with Barnett last time they took a guy without elite athletic traits and he was a bust, then they go back to drafting more elite athletic traits in recent years and it's no coincidence that the Eagles draft success exploded. Some of it is probably luck too, but point being, on the DL give me elite athletes. If they're going there in round 1 I want guys who have elite tools in the body as Howie says. If they can't get that at DL at 32 I'd either trade up, trade back or take another position where I think you can get someone who is elite. Just keep drafting elite football players and this team will be great for years.

Ill give you a little anti-Scourton ammo. When trying to read about his pro day yesterday I found quotes of him saying people care about the wrong things that dont matter like 40 times for DLs. Couldnt find a 40 for him anywhere on the internet. Did he refuse to run? Probably knew it wasnt impressive. 

Then I saw his A&M coach talking about how his weight is down now, and when these guys become pros they cant as easily go to chick fil a and Chipotle every day like when they are on campus, etc. 

Scourton also had a quote refuting that his weight was an issue.

 

I dont love the interview. That could be why the eagles are spending so much time. Eagles draft a lot of these guys that visit. We assume they like them when the appear on the list. But who knows, some of them may just be more due diligence rather than an indicator that he is a sure target.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

That's not what this is about at all... its about having your first choice of all the options, or having to choose amongst what others have picked over and rejected in favor of someone else.  Many times teams miss and leave the better players behind and select a lemon (yes, another figure of speech), but most of the time, the better players go faster.  

Lemons are great for making iced tea.

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

Lemons are great for making iced tea.

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Ideally I don't want OG with a first round pick, but the reality is the Eagles don't like Steen. It couldn't be more apparent. 

I respectfully disagree. Your second sentence could just as easily read, "It couldn’t be more speculative.”  Stoutland has said nothing about Steen that would indicate that he doesn’t like him.  I believe you are reading more into the Becton saga than is actually there.  I may be wrong and you may be right though.  I’m prepared to wait it out and not rush to judgment.