8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's not what this is about at all... its about having your first choice of all the options, or having to choose amongst what others have picked over and rejected in favor of someone else.  Many times teams miss and leave the better players behind and select a lemon (yes, another figure of speech), but most of the time, the better players go faster.  

That is the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat,  For every Marcus Smith there is a Quinyon Mitchell or Jalen Carter.  They both proved to be lemonade.

Also the incredible amount of variance this year in the available player assessments from the "experts” is evidence of an interesting Draft weekend to come.

 

 

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

That is the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat,  For every Marcus Smith there is a Quinyon Mitchell or Jalen Carter.  They both proved to be lemonade.

Not really.   Mitchell they stood pat and he fell in their laps.  With Carter they traded up.   Smith, they traded back.  Very different recipes.

7 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Ill give you a little anti-Scourton ammo. When trying to read about his pro day yesterday I found quotes of him saying people care about the wrong things that dont matter like 40 times for DLs. Couldnt find a 40 for him anywhere on the internet. Did he refuse to run? Probably knew it wasnt impressive. 

Then I saw his A&M coach talking about how his weight is down now, and when these guys become pros they cant as easily go to chick fil a and Chipotle every day like when they are on campus, etc. 

Scourton also had a quote refuting that his weight was an issue.

 

I dont love the interview. That could be why the eagles are spending so much time. Eagles draft a lot of these guys that visit. We assume they like them when the appear on the list. But who knows, some of them may just be more due diligence rather than an indicator that he is a sure target.

I checked where Jeremiah and Brugler have him. Jeremiah has him 49th overall prospect. Brugler has him as his 12th Edge with a 2nd round grade.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/the-beast/2025/position/edge/

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/the-beast/2025/player/nic_scourton-edge-K6FKvf6Xyd1fd9so/

3 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Some great players are "runts” because they start in prove it mold and maintain that throughout their career.  That doesn’t apply to just sports athletes. I saw that apply in all sorts of professions throughout my life.  Now try hard isn’t the same as prove it and neither overcome all physical and mental limitations, but that level of self determination can be pretty great.  Jason Kelce comes to mind.  

Trent Cole as well.

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not really.   Mitchell they stood pat and he fell in their laps.  With Carter they traded up.   Smith, they traded back.  Very different recipes.

Mitchell fell.  Carter fell.  Both were as a result "lemons” in the eyes of the teams that passed them over … "runts” if you will.  But a rhino runt is still a rhino.

i get your point and I believe you get mine.  Since all of this is an art rather than a science, there is merit to both our perspectives.

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And sometimes the runts are just the dregs at the bottom of the cup... and won't ever amount to anything.    The point is... when you have your pick of the litter, you get to choose which one you want.  When you trade back, you lose out on certain options... that can be good, or that can be bad.  The odds go down the further back you trade, which is why it costs so much to trade up.   

All I am saying is... with the roster constructed as it is right now, and with the number of picks the team has this year and next, I'd rather not gamble as much and take the player of the group that the team believes in the most, rather than trade down and risk losing out on that guy.  Holding #32 gives you a little leverage in getting a bit more for the cost of the trade, but is losing out on 5 or 6 options (however far you end up trading back) worth the risk?  At this moment, I don't think it is.  In 2018, they were in this same position and traded back to the middle of Round 2 - back 20 spots, and all they really got in return was a middle of the 2nd round pick the following year for that.  That's not enough return on that risk for me.  It turned out pretty well for the Eagles that time, they got Dallas Goedert and Miles Sanders.  Neither a true superstar, but not a bad showing.  In the end, the only player that they really 'missed out on' between 32 and 52 that year was the guy the Ravens took at 32, Lamar Jackson.  I'd hold out for more if the situation arises again this year, or just grab the guy you want at 32.   (The Eagles' own 2nd round pick in 2019 was JJAW!  🤢. )

 

Trade backs are risky... they can really pay off... or they can really just leave the team with less overall talent.  When they traded back to get Marcus Smith, they didn't gain anything of value at all.  And a ton of studs went off the board from #9 to #17.  The Eagles sat at #22... traded back to #26 and missed on Dee Ford.  Then they tried to trade back again, but couldn't... and grabbed Smith... still missing scouting and missed out on Demarcus Lawrence.    Just a bad year all around... bad decision not to move up and get a stud a few slots earlier... bad decision not to stay at 22 and grab the next stud at 22 in Ford... and bad decision when trading back to not grab Demarcus Lawrence.   They did just about everything wrong.   And the other guy that got because of the trade back was Josh Huff.  .  

 

Fortunately, Howie has learned a lot since then and the recent history has been extremely good.  I'd just rather they didn't regress to the mean.  Stay aggressive and target your favorite players.  We have the ammunition to do it.

If the draft falls so that several players the Eagles have evenly ranked are there at 32, I want Howie to value whether the fifth year option has value to the Eagles draft pool at that point versus what may be offered by a team that may want that fifth year option for a Dart or Slough, where they would drop to and whether that drop greatly decreases the chance they would get the player they target at the new spot.  Cleveland seeking a QB would be a no brainer, take the offer if the value is there, maybe NY.  Raiders and Saints, I agree with you, Howie should grab his choice, if his players are there.  

Howie has probably had preliminary talks with Cleveland and the gints.  Hell, I would bet he has bounced possible moves, both up and down, off of every GM.

Marcus Smith was a case of all the players Howie had targeted for that pick were taken so he risked trading down.  Frankly, I was more surprised by how bad Smith was than any other player. His athleticism and college performance suggested otherwise.  Barnett, not a surprise but Smith sure was for me.  I think Smith and Watkins and to a degree, Dillard, caused Howie to be more attuned to whether the players love ball, although Huff may have fooled them on that. 

21 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I respectfully disagree. Your second sentence could just as easily read, "It couldn’t be more speculative.”  Stoutland has said nothing about Steen that would indicate that he doesn’t like him.  I believe you are reading more into the Becton saga than is actually there.  I may be wrong and you may be right though.  I’m prepared to wait it out and not rush to judgment.

Well, I mean. They signed Becton a year ago, Steen has never won a starting job. They traded for Green. You can say "That's just competition" but notice how they didn't have competition for Jurgens. He was the guy. If they liked Steen, he'd be the guy. But we'll have our answer if they draft a RG in round 1. If they do, then it couldn't be more definitive.

To me this draft is strange because there are so many solid DE and DT options where people have them ranked in so many different orders.  If Steen isn't the guy then Donovan Jackson who many have as top 2 or 3 guards on almost all boards I've seen makes the most sense as you could probably get a similar DE or DT at 64 that you could at 32.

Not sure what Steen has done to warrant praise.  

Keep reading about this "great" EDGE class when there is only one sure-fire EDGE prospect. 

23 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I checked where Jeremiah and Brugler have him. Jeremiah has him 49th overall prospect. Brugler has him as his 12th Edge with a 2nd round grade.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/the-beast/2025/position/edge/

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/the-beast/2025/player/nic_scourton-edge-K6FKvf6Xyd1fd9so/

If they're right then I'm not sure a single one of our visits has or deserves a 1st round grade. 

I'm great with getting those guys in a trade down. 

But what if you are stuck at your pick? Still have to take one then. 

 

I would also consider,  there is only 1 who had a top 10 projection before his pass rush ability was wasted at A&M. Nobody else who has visited even sniffed that.

8 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

If they're right then I'm not sure a single one of our visits has or deserves a 1st round grade. 

I'm great with getting those guys in a trade down. 

But what if you are stuck at your pick? Still have to take one then. 

 

I would also consider,  there is only 1 who had a top 10 projection before his pass rush ability was wasted at A&M. Nobody else who has visited even sniffed that.

I think Howie will move up or move down. Not sure they'd like Pearce enough to take him, I'm torn on it. It doesn't fit the typical Fangio profile, but Nolan Smith didn't really either. But Howie loves gambling on traits and he's a guy who for months was tabbed as a top 10 prospect who has fallen. Will he gamble on traits? Or is he a 3rd down rusher and not worthy. Would they like Ezeiruaku? Not sure. A bit undersized but with less athleticism than Pearce(weight, not height with Pearce). If they wouldn't like Pearce I'm not sure they'd love him. Who knows.

I think at 32 more DTs make sense. But they probably view it as less of a need. Which is why I wonder if they trade up for a better Edge than ones who could be available or go for another position entirely. Which is why I mentioned Banks Jr. Whether you want him or not, it's just a reality that the Eagles tried hard to trade up for an OT/G last draft. They wanted Fautanu. I guarantee they still want one. If one falls into their laps, I don't think Howie would hesitate.

Also we don't know if Mike Green was taken off their board because of his allegations. If not, he could be the guy to move up for. Or maybe they like one of the Georgia guys. I think they could go a bit earlier than trade up range though. Curious how they feel about Shemar Stewart.

I think Edge is the biggest need, but DT might be the best available in that range unless they really like Pearce.

I still really like JT Tuimoloau for us more than most and think he's a top 5-6 Edge in this years draft

14 minutes ago, RLC said:

Keep reading about this "great" EDGE class when there is only one sure-fire EDGE prospect. 

Not "great”. Rather really good and much deeper than usual.  Starters as opposed to to stars.

17 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

To me this draft is strange because there are so many solid DE and DT options where people have them ranked in so many different orders.  If Steen isn't the guy then Donovan Jackson who many have as top 2 or 3 guards on almost all boards I've seen makes the most sense as you could probably get a similar DE or DT at 64 that you could at 32.

Not sure what Steen has done to warrant praise.  

What has Steen done to warrant derision?

47 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Understood, but given my Accounting/Finance training I know that figures sometimes lie and liars figure. Present company excepted of course.

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.”  I had this Cameron quote up in my office for years.  How do you measure football IQ, for example?  

24 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Well, I mean. They signed Becton a year ago, Steen has never won a starting job. They traded for Green. You can say "That's just competition" but notice how they didn't have competition for Jurgens. He was the guy. If they liked Steen, he'd be the guy. But we'll have our answer if they draft a RG in round 1. If they do, then it couldn't be more definitive.

Your final sentence is the epitome of "wait it out and not rush to judgment.”

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

What has Steen done to warrant derision?

I mean they brought in a guy who had never played Guard before because they didn't think he was good enough.  He also scored out very low via PFF when he did play.  He just seems like a guy that is serviceable, not one to be starting on the most dominant line in the NFL

2 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.”  I had this Cameron quote up in my office for years.  How do you measure football IQ, for example?  

Myopically and with bias.

Just now, garingovt2000 said:

I mean they brought in a guy who had never played Guard before because they didn't think he was good enough.  He also scored out very low via PFF when he did play.  He just seems like a guy that is serviceable, not one to be starting on the most dominant line in the NFL

“… because they didn’t think he was good enough.”

When has even one Eagle ever said that?  Becton was signed as a lottery ticket, probably as an OT backup lottery ticket.  He was not signed as a replacement for Steen.  He proved to be a lottery ticket that was the winning number.  

3 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

I mean they brought in a guy who had never played Guard before because they didn't think he was good enough.  He also scored out very low via PFF when he did play.  He just seems like a guy that is serviceable, not one to be starting on the most dominant line in the NFL

I don't believe that's true.  They brought in a OT for a bargain bin price, and once he was here, they decided to try him out at OG - Sirianni's idea, not Stoutland, not Howie.  The fact that Becton took to it so well is a testament to him and to Stoutland as a teacher/coach.  I believe he was brought in more to push Fred Johnson for the backup/swing OT position, but given the suggestion by Sirianni and his ability to take to OG, the plan changed after the signing.

Will be interesting to follow Nolen, Stewart, and Scourton. All 3 with really good length, athletic ability, and on-field flashes, but all 3 with production questions coming out of A&M, where that seems to be the trend.

They each have their own stories, but my gut says they'll all be better pros than college players.

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

I wouldn't want him over Pearce, Ezeiruaku, Nolen, Mykel Williams, Jihaad Campbell, Mike Green, Derrick Harmon, etc.

First, Nolen and Harmon aren’t Edges so comparing them to Scourton is a bit apples and oranges.  I prefer both Nolen and Harmon to Scourton as well, and the consideration of taking one of those two includes having a good sense of what Edges are available at 64 and 96 and 134.  Campbell isn’t an Edge either, although He has a lot of Edge-like attributes.  I also would take him over Scourton, but if that is done, both Edge and DT need attention at 65 and 96.

That leaves Pearce, Ezeiruaku, and Williams.  Both Pearce and Williams are off my Board.  Pearce for both character and production reasons and Williams for the reasons detailed in the enigmas YouTube.  Ezeiruaku I wouldn’t take over Scourton, as would @HazletonEagle but this discussion began by assuming Ezeiruaku had already been selected.

 

50 minutes ago, RLC said:

Keep reading about this "great" EDGE class when there is only one sure-fire EDGE prospect. 

Depth. While not blue chip prospects you can get a really good edge rusher late into day two and possibly even early day three. Same thing goes for DT.

We don't even know if Pearce's character issues are legit. And that's very broad. That could mean anything from legal issues to just being a bit abrasive. I can't say the Eagles shouldn't draft him if I don't even know what. if any, issues he has.

I like Mykel Williams a lot. Saw Georgia play a lot and he passes the eye test or me. I just don't like Scourton very much. Not as a first rounder anyway. Don't like the way he moves, don't like his get off, doesn't seem to have a ton of power. Just not a fan. I like Ezeiruaku slightly better, but not way more.

This channel has been posting a lot of really undersized RBs and WRs lately that just dont look like NFL athletes.

This guy's speed stands out and you can tell its real when you notice the strides are long as well. 

So I checked out his pro day, and it checks out. 4.36. His whole workout is very good. And Fresno had a bunch of solid athletes there. School got 0 combine invites.

Mac looks worth watching for in UDFA.

 

Here is an article with info on the rest of the workouts at Fresno.

https://247sports.com/college/fresno-state/article/fresno-state-football-pro-day-mac-dalena-forty-yard-dash-436-highlights-several-standouts-dean-clark-devo-bridges-mose-vavao-kosi-agina-devo-bridges-246961978/