On 6/5/2025 at 12:59 PM, NCiggles said:

I think there is a tendency to remember Vick's highlights and McNabb's lowlights. If Vick had gotten the kind of coaching he needed early in his career, I am sure he would have been a much better QB.

I don’t think better coaching would have done much for Vick early in his career. His head just wasn’t in it. He knew his physical talent alone could carry a team, and obviously his whole dog fighting thing off the field points towards profound moral and maturity issues.

As someone else said, Vick is a rather rare case of a genuine, fundamental and complete reversal of character. It was really tough for me to root for the guy, but he won me over both off and on the field. He put in the work after being a total waste of a human being professionally and personally. Sometimes people hit rock bottom and really do come out of it in a Nietzschian "what does not kill me makes me stronger” sense.

Error, work ethic, character etc aside has their ever been a more physically talented QB than Vick in the NFL? He's remembered for his speed but the guy had an effortless cannon for an arm too.

36 minutes ago, TEW said:

I don’t think better coaching would have done much for Vick early in his career. His head just wasn’t in it. He knew his physical talent alone could carry a team, and obviously his whole dog fighting thing off the field points towards profound moral and maturity issues.

As someone else said, Vick is a rather rare case of a genuine, fundamental and complete reversal of character. It was really tough for me to root for the guy, but he won me over both off and on the field. He put in the work after being a total waste of a human being professionally and personally. Sometimes people hit rock bottom and really do come out of it in a Nietzschian "what does not kill me makes me stronger” sense.

I absolutely think better coaching and a better environment would have changed him

30 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Error, work ethic, character etc aside has their ever been a more physically talented QB than Vick in the NFL? He's remembered for his speed but the guy had an effortless cannon for an arm too.

He was more talented than Jackson, who is the closest comp.

I think the only guy you could make an argument for, just purely looking at physical talent, is Anthony Richardson.

He’s not quite as fast, but his arm strength is near equal and he’s huge and far stronger (though that hasn’t translated into durability). I think Richardson is a guy who was ruined by being pushed into a starting role too soon. Also seems weak mentally.

5 minutes ago, TEW said:

He was more talented than Jackson, who is the closest comp.

I think the only guy you could make an argument for, just purely looking at physical talent, is Anthony Richardson.

He’s not quite as fast, but his arm strength is near equal and he’s huge and far stronger (though that hasn’t translated into durability). I think Richardson is a guy who was ruined by being pushed into a starting role too soon. Also seems weak mentally.

I mean, I'd throw Randall in that discussion. He wasn't as fast, but almost more evasive. And he had an absolute cannon for an arm.

1 hour ago, Iggles25 said:

Sounds like his post is in the air too.

You guys have an interesting vision for what makes a talented QB.

I would prefer a strong, accurate arm that can distribute a football and break down a defense more than someone who just runs around all day. Marino, Elway and Kelly were all more naturally talented QBs from the same draft class than the other names being tossed out.

3 hours ago, paco said:

Now it's just getting sad

Was sad the day he decided to cosplay as Malcolm X because nobody wanted to give him a starting job.

16 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Sounds like his post is in the air too.

Your approval means nothing. Mina has spoken

18 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

You guys have an interesting vision for what makes a talented QB.

I would prefer a strong, accurate arm that can distribute a football and break down a defense more than someone who just runs around all day. Marino, Elway and Kelly were all more naturally talented QBs from the same draft class than the other names being tossed out.

A QB who runs isn't important to me. I'd still prefer the QB that's a statue as long as he can throw anywhere, read and dissect a defense, and doesn't freak out when the pocket collapses. Extending the play is less important than surviving for the next down IMO

1 hour ago, DEagle7 said:

Error, work ethic, character etc aside has their ever been a more physically talented QB than Vick in the NFL? He's remembered for his speed but the guy had an effortless cannon for an arm too.

I agree. For sheer talent Vick is unmatched. The two QBs closest to him in my old coot view are Staubach and Namath, but as college players. Staubach lost five years because of Navy service and Namath had several severe knee injuries when at Alabama. Neither was as athletic a pro as he was in college.

3 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Curious who started it

Not sure why him being right wing is relevant to anything

How is he desperately trying to stay in the good graces of the public?

Bc the current right wing like him are a cancer on society?

Is this a trick question?

4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Bc the current right wing like him are a cancer on society?

Is this a trick question?

https://www.eaglesmessageboard.com/forum/23-conflicting-views-and-other-news/

26 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Your approval means nothing. Mina has spoken

Mina should open a weed dispensary.

'Kimes Bud' just rolls off the tongue.

I've been thinking about the roster decisions that will come on August 26th. As most everyone knows, a new rule effectively creates 54th and 55th roster spots on IR or an NFI list during the final roster reduction that are eligible for return during the regular season any time after Week Four. Given that, does it make sense to consider Jihaad Campbell for one of those spots?

We are clearly going to have a roster crunch on August 26th, and I fully expect Howie to make one or two trades for 2027 picks of players with impending cuts, but each roster spot is precious, and given Fangio's comments yesterday it doesn't sound like Jihaad is going to be ready prior to Week Five.

Eagles just claimed Keilan Robinson from the Jags... 4.42 speed. Looks to have some nice kick off return abilities. 5th round pick in last years draft

On 6/5/2025 at 9:59 AM, NCiggles said:

I think there is a tendency to remember Vick's highlights and McNabb's lowlights. If Vick had gotten the kind of coaching he needed early in his career, I am sure he would have been a much better QB.

I think Vick's run here, though fun and filled with highlights, is extremely overrated by a portion of the fanbase along with that team pre-Chip. LeSean has made a post-football career out of going after Chip for breaking up that team on his podcast and even though he deserves the criticism, that team was never going to win a Super Bowl. The Joe Webb loss in Vick's first year starting against MIN was terrible and then they got bounced in the first round by Green Bay that year. 8-8 with the "Dream Team" a year later and it was all downhill from there. Vick over-achieved beyond anyone's belief stepping in for Kolb in 2010, but he's not even close to McNabb's career if that's even the question.

5 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Curious who started it

Not sure why him being right wing is relevant to anything

How is he desperately trying to stay in the good graces of the public?

These people don't even know if he's right wing or what his politics are. I've said that the biggest reason people dislike Rodgers is because he came out against vaccines, therefore people assume he's right wing, therefore they don't like him. Notice that the anti-Rodgers sentiment really blew up after that whole immunized thing he did. If that never happened, most people would be indifferent about him. I guarantee the sentiment on Rodgers would be very different right now if he had a mask and needle emoji in his bio rather than the whole "immunized" scandal because then people would also baselessly assume he is left wing instead of right wing.

Overall, all this proves is people are morons for assuming peoples political stances based off of nonsense.

I wonder if he got a lunch out of this

2 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

You guys have an interesting vision for what makes a talented QB.

I would prefer a strong, accurate arm that can distribute a football and break down a defense more than someone who just runs around all day. Marino, Elway and Kelly were all more naturally talented QBs from the same draft class than the other names being tossed out.

I’ll preface these remarks by saying I am 77 years old so I grew up in the era of the kind of quarterback you are describing. That was an era where all quarterbacks were white and very few were athletes.

As a result, they were technicians, the kind of technicians that you described Practitioners of skills as opposed to athletes doing an athletic endeavor.

What has happened overtime is that athleticism has trumped skill proficiency. That is in large part due to the fact that athleticism will produce splash plays that are very much more entertaining than technicians, executing the same modest play over and over again successfully

Damnit. I read it wrong about the SB ring date. Thought it was delayed to today. Didn't know it was originally supposed to be today

57 minutes ago, BDawk_ASamuel said:

I think Vick's run here, though fun and filled with highlights, is extremely overrated by a portion of the fanbase along with that team pre-Chip. LeSean has made a post-football career out of going after Chip for breaking up that team on his podcast and even though he deserves the criticism, that team was never going to win a Super Bowl. The Joe Webb loss in Vick's first year starting against MIN was terrible and then they got bounced in the first round by Green Bay that year. 8-8 with the "Dream Team" a year later and it was all downhill from there. Vick over-achieved beyond anyone's belief stepping in for Kolb in 2010, but he's not even close to McNabb's career if that's even the question.

If the NFL didn't move that Joe Webb game to Tuesday last minute the Eagles would won that game and then rolled into the playoffs as the #2 seed with a bye. It was completely unnecessary and threw everything off delaying the game 2 days. He then suffers a quad contusion the first play of that game and obviously wasn't right in round 1 against the Packers. Still they played the Packers closer than anyone else did that postseason when they went onto win the Super Bowl. Till the end of my days I will always stand by the belief that if Goodell didn't move that game to Tuesday that the Eagles and Vick would have gone onto win the Super Bowl that season.

24 minutes ago, mattwill said:

What has happened overtime is that athleticism has trumped skill proficiency. That is in large part due to the fact that athleticism will produce splash plays that are very much more entertaining than technicians, executing the same modest play over and over again successfully

It's not nearly as black and white as you're asserting (speaking tongue-in-cheek). It's a nuanced debate about how much athleticism is required to play QB in the current NFL. Some is required, of course -- but if I'm starting a team from scratch, I'll take the QB with an accurate arm who processes and distributes quickly over the one who relies on his athletic traits to get him out of trouble regularly.

Of the top 10 QBs in passing yards from last season, only Jackson would be categorized as elite athletically.

Top 10 in passing TDs I'll add Jayden Daniels in there, so that's two out of 10.

Total points scored last season it's the same two QBs out of the top 10.

The final 8 teams in the playoffs last season were PHI, KC, WSH, BUF, LAR, DET, HOU, BAL. I'll add Hurts to the list, so that's 3 out of the top 8.

Mahomes and Josh Allen are both very athletic -- but they are elite QBs because they both have ++ throwing arms, IMO.

None of the above even includes Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert, who are pretty much universally recognized as top quartile NFL QBs.