On 6/4/2025 at 1:46 PM, Mike030270 said:

  On 6/4/2025 at 1:40 PM, DaEagles4Life said:

Wentz was mentally just weak, he was going to eventually break.

  On 6/4/2025 at 9:49 AM, Mike030270 said:

Agree to disagree

5 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

The worst thing Carson Wentz did as an Eagles player was listen to Aaron Rodgers after the Packers game he got benched.

Robinson is a poor man’s Gainwell, without the vision to run inside or the pass pro. The interest in returners is something that caught my eye. With the new kickoff rules, a returner threat is necessary.

The STs competition I thought might occur did not develop this Howie Season. I expected Lovato to go because of his poor season last year and his age. But I expected Howie to go younger not older. I figured he would sign a couple of younger LS.

3 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

You guys have an interesting vision for what makes a talented QB.

I would prefer a strong, accurate arm that can distribute a football and break down a defense more than someone who just runs around all day. Marino, Elway and Kelly were all more naturally talented QBs from the same draft class than the other names being tossed out.

talent = physical gifts

Speed, arm strength, elusiveness, raw power and strength, etc.

Aside from arm strength, the things you’re talking about are skill.

11 minutes ago, TEW said:

talent = physical gifts

Speed, arm strength, elusiveness, raw power and strength, etc.

Aside from arm strength, the things you’re talking about are skill.

For which positions are you talking about? Because you're not describing QB.

Anthony Richardson might go down as the worst top 5 draft pick of this generation if he can't beat out Daniel Jones for a starting QB job, and I have my doubts he can. He'll likely start Week 1, but I would bet he's on the bench by midseason.

You've got to be able to think the position. Cerebral and processing abilities all trump running, jumping, spinning and hitting for a QB.

50 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

That's old. Also I believe there are other views that counter his

45 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

It's not nearly as black and white as you're asserting (speaking tongue-in-cheek). It's a nuanced debate about how much athleticism is required to play QB in the current NFL. Some is required, of course -- but if I'm starting a team from scratch, I'll take the QB with an accurate arm who processes and distributes quickly over the one who relies on his athletic traits to get him out of trouble regularly.

Of the top 10 QBs in passing yards from last season, only Jackson would be categorized as elite athletically.

Top 10 in passing TDs I'll add Jayden Daniels in there, so that's two out of 10.

Total points scored last season it's the same two QBs out of the top 10.

The final 8 teams in the playoffs last season were PHI, KC, WSH, BUF, LAR, DET, HOU, BAL. I'll add Hurts to the list, so that's 3 out of the top 8.

Mahomes and Josh Allen are both very athletic -- but they are elite QBs because they both have ++ throwing arms, IMO.

None of the above even includes Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert, who are pretty much universally recognized as top quartile NFL QBs.

You can win with different types of QBs, obviously.

But who are the true difference makers? Mahomes, Allen, Jackson — all elite athletes… you can put those guys in almost any offense and you’re going to score points and be a playoff team.

Not sure I can say the same for Borrow, who is a great passer but benefits from having elite targets, and definitely can’t say that about Herbert.

Looking at the final 8 playoff teams last year, 6 of the 8 have great athletic talents at QB — Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Hurts, Daniels, and Stroud.

Athleticism at QB has become much more important in recent years. It does so many things in how teams have to defend the run game, but also how teams pass rush and cover, and also the extension of plays which would otherwise end in sacks.

Athleticism and physical talent dictate a hard cap on the individual player’s ceiling and also your offense’s limitations.

49 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

None of the above even includes Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert, who are pretty much universally recognized as top quartile NFL QBs.

The argument against Burrow and Herbert is how many Playoff games/Super Bowls have they won. My answer would be what kind of supporting cast have they had? I don't know much about Herbert but Burrow, if he had a defense worthy of the name and with Chase, Higgins and Gesecki, would certainly be in the playoff discussion. If the Eagles had Burrow's defense last year how likely is it that there's a second Lombardi in the trophy case? I think 6 points from Mahomes and company while it mattered gives a clue there.

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

Math is hard. The video itself mentioned that he's played 12 seasons in the NFL. So... why only 10 years?

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

I’ll preface these remarks by saying I am 77 years old so I grew up in the era of the kind of quarterback you are describing. That was an era where all quarterbacks were white and very few were athletes.

🤔 They weren't athletes? What were they? I guess they all adopted John Kruk's line. "I ain't an athlete, lady. I'm a quarterback."

36 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Robinson is a poor man’s Gainwell, without the vision to run inside or the pass pro. The interest in returners is something that caught my eye. With the new kickoff rules, a returner threat is necessary.

The STs competition I thought might occur did not develop this Howie Season. I expected Lovato to go because of his poor season last year and his age. But I expected Howie to go younger not older. I figured he would sign a couple of younger LS.

Age doesn’t matter in a long snapper, especially since they are protecting him by rule. I do recall one time last season when Carter went after somebody for hitting the LS. Might have been Green Bay. Good for him, fu to the ref who let it go. Lovato’s snaps were frequently 6” off. That’s a lot. Tough on Mann and a real distraction on the kicker if he sees the hold even slightly delayed because he’s going on the snap. Elliot took some heat last year for misses but he was not the only or even the primary culprit. @FranklinField Upper might bear me out.

2 hours ago, BDawk_ASamuel said:

I think Vick's run here, though fun and filled with highlights, is extremely overrated by a portion of the fanbase along with that team pre-Chip. LeSean has made a post-football career out of going after Chip for breaking up that team on his podcast and even though he deserves the criticism, that team was never going to win a Super Bowl. The Joe Webb loss in Vick's first year starting against MIN was terrible and then they got bounced in the first round by Green Bay that year. 8-8 with the "Dream Team" a year later and it was all downhill from there. Vick over-achieved beyond anyone's belief stepping in for Kolb in 2010, but he's not even close to McNabb's career if that's even the question.

Vick had a nice 10 game or so run. He was never a good passer even in college. One of the greatest athletes at the QB position and definitely an exciting player but he was never a good QB as in throwing the ball.

The Monday night massacre was the peak and people including myself thought how is anyone going to beat this team. The magic wore off after so many games.

12 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

🤔 They weren't athletes? What were they? I guess they all adopted John Kruk's line. "I ain't an athlete, lady. I'm a quarterback."

Depends on how far you go back. Bobby Layne and Sonny Jurgenson both had paunches. Layne drank scotch at halftime- Cutty Sark IIRC. Neither one could run fifty yards, let alone a hundred. They could throw and they were tough but athletic? just no. You think Jeff George ever ran a wind sprint? Or George Blanda? Hell, Eli Manning was stoned half the time he played. You think the Raiders were straight back in the day? The Iron Curtain were a bunch of juicers.

4 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

You guys have an interesting vision for what makes a talented QB.

I would prefer a strong, accurate arm that can distribute a football and break down a defense more than someone who just runs around all day. Marino, Elway and Kelly were all more naturally talented QBs from the same draft class than the other names being tossed out.

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

I’ll preface these remarks by saying I am 77 years old so I grew up in the era of the kind of quarterback you are describing. That was an era where all quarterbacks were white and very few were athletes.

As a result, they were technicians, the kind of technicians that you described Practitioners of skills as opposed to athletes doing an athletic endeavor.

What has happened overtime is that athleticism has trumped skill proficiency. That is in large part due to the fact that athleticism will produce splash plays that are very much more entertaining than technicians, executing the same modest play over and over again successfully

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

It's not nearly as black and white as you're asserting (speaking tongue-in-cheek). It's a nuanced debate about how much athleticism is required to play QB in the current NFL. Some is required, of course -- but if I'm starting a team from scratch, I'll take the QB with an accurate arm who processes and distributes quickly over the one who relies on his athletic traits to get him out of trouble regularly.

Of the top 10 QBs in passing yards from last season, only Jackson would be categorized as elite athletically.

Top 10 in passing TDs I'll add Jayden Daniels in there, so that's two out of 10.

Total points scored last season it's the same two QBs out of the top 10.

The final 8 teams in the playoffs last season were PHI, KC, WSH, BUF, LAR, DET, HOU, BAL. I'll add Hurts to the list, so that's 3 out of the top 8.

Mahomes and Josh Allen are both very athletic -- but they are elite QBs because they both have ++ throwing arms, IMO.

None of the above even includes Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert, who are pretty much universally recognized as top quartile NFL QBs.

I didn't say it was simple. It definitely is nuanced. But what I hear when I read your words above is a concept much more than a reality. To illustrate, in the 2024 QB class how many of the QBs fit the model of a stand in the pocket, accurate arm who processes and distributes quickly? From the first row, the only one who might ... and I emphasize might ... fit that description is McCord, and he was thought of so poorly by the 32 NFL draft teams that he wasn't drafted until the 6th Round.

Same question for the 2024 Draft

And the 2023 Draft ... Ironically with McKee and McCord, the Eagles may have the two QBs that best fit your conceptual description.

12 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Also what a part of that quote. Classic Donovan.

"But with the success we had with Andy, after I left, things were up and down and it wasn't consistent. And he was to blame for it."

In the last 5 season of McNabb's time with the Eagles that followed after the Super Bowl the Eagles made the playoffs three times but one of them was a credit to Garcia who came in and turned the season around. 2008 they squeak into the playoffs and make a deep playoff run on the heels the final prime year of Brian Westbrook and a defense that had turned it on at the end of the season. Then in 2009 they lose to Dallas in the final week to lose the division and then McNabb puts up an absolutely pathetic performance in the Wild Card round against the Cowboys in his final game on the Eagles. 36-26-1 the Eagles were with McNabb in his final 5 seasons. It was nothing but up and down inconsistent in McNabb's final 5 years. It didn't tu rn into that after he left.

When greatness is on, you watch it.

9 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

When greatness is on, you watch it.

No I dont. Greatness does not exist in hockey.

58 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

No I dont. Greatness does not exist in hockey.

Okay bucko

3 hours ago, mattwill said:

I didn't say it was simple. It definitely is nuanced. But what I hear when I read your words above is a concept much more than a reality. To illustrate, in the 2024 QB class how many of the QBs fit the model of a stand in the pocket, accurate arm who processes and distributes quickly? From the first row, the only one who might ... and I emphasize might ... fit that description is McCord, and he was thought of so poorly by the 32 NFL draft teams that he wasn't drafted until the 6th Round.

Same question for the 2024 Draft

And the 2023 Draft ... Ironically with McKee and McCord, the Eagles may have the two QBs that best fit your conceptual description.

The QB you are describing from the 2025 draft is Sanders.

2 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said:

When greatness is on, you watch it.

Yeah, that's some hands there. And to finish it by putting right into Draisaitl's wheelhouse. Marvelous.

7 hours ago, just relax said:

Age doesn’t matter in a long snapper, especially since they are protecting him by rule. I do recall one time last season when Carter went after somebody for hitting the LS. Might have been Green Bay. Good for him, fu to the ref who let it go. Lovato’s snaps were frequently 6” off. That’s a lot. Tough on Mann and a real distraction on the kicker if he sees the hold even slightly delayed because he’s going on the snap. Elliot took some heat last year for misses but he was not the only or even the primary culprit. @FranklinField Upper might bear me out.

I would love to understand WHY his performance diminished, because it sure looked like it did.

Did his physical abilities diminish, like his eyesight or coordination? Seems unlikely right? Although aging is weird. It is not lockstep, even for the same person at different times in their lifetime.

Was it something that wouldn't normally appear as a direct causal agent, like did he gain 10 pounds of fat/muscle? Was he injured? Mental? Family issues?

Anyway, interesting to me.

4 hours ago, Freshmilk said:

The QB you are describing from the 2025 draft is Sanders.

Sanders stands in the pocket? You have to be kidding. Sanders was lauded for his scrambling.

1 hour ago, jamiller said:

I would love to understand WHY his performance diminished, because it sure looked like it did.

Did his physical abilities diminish, like his eyesight or coordination? Seems unlikely right? Although aging is weird. It is not lockstep, even for the same person at different times in their lifetime.

Was it something that wouldn't normally appear as a direct causal agent, like did he gain 10 pounds of fat/muscle? Was he injured? Mental? Family issues?

Anyway, interesting to me.

I blame it on a loss of concentration/focus. He just wasn’t fully "there” like he needed to be and had always been in the past.

JMO