3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Who?

Mahomes and Allen

Just now, Mike030270 said:

Mahomes and Allen

Exactly. QBs universally ranked in the top 3-5 where Hurts rank should be. Those are his actual peers.

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Exactly. QBs universally ranked in the top 3-5 where Hurts rank should be. Those are his actual peers.

Yet you complained that some of his peers were ranked higher than him

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Yet you complained that some of his peers were ranked higher than him

I'm complaining about the likes of Herbert, Goff and Daniels being ranked above him. You can have arguments regarding Burrow, Mahomes, Lamar, Allen and Stafford but there is no legitimate argument to put Goff, Herbert and Daniels ahead of Hurts.

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

I'm complaining about the likes of Herbert, Goff and Daniels being ranked above him. You can have arguments regarding Burrow, Mahomes, Lamar, Allen and Stafford but there is no legitimate argument to put Goff, Herbert and Daniels ahead of Hurts.

No legitimate reason?

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

No legitimate reason?

No legitimate case whatsoever. Herbert has only taken his team to the playoffs twice. The first time was an all time epic 2nd half choke job to blow a massive lead. The second time was one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a QB in the playoffs.

He is nowhere near entering the conversation with Jalen Hurts when Jalen Hurts is a Championship QB who has played some od his best football in the biggest postseason games.

7 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

No legitimate case whatsoever. Herbert has only taken his team to the playoffs twice. The first time was an all time epic 2nd half choke job to blow a massive lead. The second time was one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a QB in the playoffs.

He is nowhere near entering the conversation with Jalen Hurts when Jalen Hurts is a Championship QB who has played some od his best football in the biggest postseason games.

You're using team stats again as a con for a QB but then you'll use teams stats as a pro for Hurts

2 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

I'm not into FF but I do watch other teams and there are players that are fun to watch for me

For sure I'm only partially kidding. Unless it impacts us ;)

Just now, Diehardfan said:

For sure I'm only partially kidding. Unless it impacts us ;)

That's how it is for me. An example would be Rodgers back when he was with Packers. He was fun to watch except for when we played him or when we needed Packers to lose

6 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

You're using team stats again as a con for a QB but then you'll use teams stats as a pro for Hurts

It's not a team stats. In the first playoff game Herbert had the ball in his hands with numerous opportunities to extend drives all throughout the second half but continually failed to do so. He played a major role in that choke.

He was absolute dogshit in their playoff game this past postseason. That wasn't his teams fault, that was his fault. He was absolutely putrid choking in a game many had the Chargers picked to win heading into it.

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

The list was the top 10/32. That picture RTK posted was a comparison of a few QBs on whether they had an All Pro, SB appearance, SBMVP, and a SB win that clearly was to display Hurts is better than those QBs

Well, all four of those players were ahead of Hurts on that ESPN list. Let’s look at All Pro. Mahomes, then Jackson have won the most but Jackson seems to be the consensus player selected All Pro for the last three seasons. Allen has a couple of seconds plus an NFL MVP. Burrows 0, Herbert 0, Goff 0, Stafford 0. Needless to say, Daniels has zero. Hurts has a second team All Pro. ESPN’s list (with no names behind it) has Jackson as #4. Clearly the players don’t agree. Note that Dak got a second team All Pro in 2023 but isn’t on the list. Someone called the list clickbait and I agree.

7 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

It's not a team stats. In the first playoff game Herbert had the ball in his hands with numerous opportunities to extend drives all throughout the second half but continually failed to do so. He played a major role in that choke.

He was absolute dogshit in their playoff game this past postseason. That wasn't his teams fault, that was his fault. He was absolutely putrid choking in a game many had the Chargers picked to win heading into it.

Going to the playoffs is a team stat. Players have played like crap and the team still goes to the playoffs. Offenses have been trash and carried by the defense. Many different variables

1 minute ago, BigEFly said:

Well, all four of those players were ahead of Hurts on that ESPN list. Let’s look at All Pro. Mahomes, then Jackson have won the most but Jackson seems to be the consensus player selected All Pro for the last three seasons. Allen has a couple of seconds plus an NFL MVP. Burrows 0, Herbert 0, Goff 0, Stafford 0. Needless to say, Daniels has zero. Hurts has a second team All Pro. ESPN’s list (with no names behind it) has Jackson as #4. Clearly the players don’t agree. Note that Dak got a second team All Pro in 2023 but isn’t on the list. Someone called the list clickbait and I agree.

Ok? What exactly are you arguing? I just listed the players because someone mentioned Hurts being 9th without giving the entire list

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Going to the playoffs is a team stat. Players have played like crap and the team still goes to the playoffs. Offenses have been trash and carried by the defense. Many different variables

No other position in the sport influences winning and losing as much as the QB position. They have numerous chances every game to impact the outcome negatively or positively and especially late in games. We saw it with Jayden Daniels last year. We saw it with Jalen Hurts in 2021.

Herbert hasn't been on some woefully terrible roster his entire career. He just hasn't been much besides empty stats. He isn't a winner. We see it in the playoffs, he shrinks in the big moments. He doesn't step up in them.

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Going to the playoffs is a team stat. Players have played like crap and the team still goes to the playoffs. Offenses have been trash and carried by the defense. Many different variables

All stats are team stats. QBs don’t catch run routes, adjust to the pass, catch passes. Put Saquon out there with a bad line (gints) and he does less well than with a good line (Eagles). Intangibles and leadership matter.

56 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Mahomes and Allen

Those were the two who came to mind for me as well. Jackson fits also

48 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

I'm complaining about the likes of Herbert, Goff and Daniels being ranked above him. You can have arguments regarding Burrow, Mahomes, Lamar, Allen and Stafford but there is no legitimate argument to put Goff, Herbert and Daniels ahead of Hurts.

They are opinions. Nothing more nothing less. And the opinions may actually be "how can we say something that gets the maximum number of clicks.” And you have helped them achieve a successful result of expressing that opinion if indeed, it is their opinion.

5 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

No other position in the sport influences winning and losing as much as the QB position. They have numerous chances every game to impact the outcome negatively or positively and especially late in games. We saw it with Jayden Daniels last year. We saw it with Jalen Hurts in 2021.

Herbert hasn't been on some woefully terrible roster his entire career. He just hasn't been much besides empty stats. He isn't a winner. We see it in the playoffs, he shrinks in the big moments. He doesn't step up in them.

He isn't a winner but he still has better passing stats than Hurts... which is why the comparison

5 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

All stats are team stats. QBs don’t catch run routes, adjust to the pass, catch passes. Put Saquon out there with a bad line (gints) and he does less well than with a good line (Eagles). Intangibles and leadership matter.

Now you're playing semantics

5 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Ok? What exactly are you arguing? I just listed the players because someone mentioned Hurts being 9th without giving the entire list

That the list ESPN put out doesn’t reflect reality. Jackson as #4 is a joke. The players in the NFLPA select him as their All Pro QB. Allen was MVP but had a below average target % per the chart you posted. Suspect his receivers had an impact on that. These dead season lists are clickbait and trash is what I am arguing and I believe most individual stats aren’t that at all but rather a team stat.

10 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

He isn't a winner but he still has better passing stats than Hurts... which is why the comparison

He isn't a better QB. He isn't even ij the conversation of being on Jalen's level. This isn't 1980.

4 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

That the list ESPN put out doesn’t reflect reality. Jackson as #4 is a joke. The players in the NFLPA select him as their All Pro QB. Allen was MVP but had a below average target % per the chart you posted. Suspect his receivers had an impact on that. These dead season lists are clickbait and trash is what I am arguing and I believe most individual stats aren’t that at all but rather a team stat.

Interesting. I'm not going back to see who originally brought it up

Agree to disagree with your last point

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

He isn't a better QB. He isn't even ij the conversation of being on Jalen's level. This isn't 1980.

And you're completely allowed to believe that

15 minutes ago, mattwill said:

They are opinions. Nothing more nothing less. And the opinions may actually be "how can we say something that gets the maximum number of clicks.” And you have helped them achieve a successful result of expressing that opinion if indeed, it is their opinion.

I helped them achieve that by discussing on a message board that isn't owned by ESPN?