2 hours ago, RLC said:

Jihaad Campbell in RD1. Not extending Becton. CJGJ trade was a positive because of cap space. Za'Darius Smith contract was good.

Did we have misses? Of course. But again, every team is going to whiff on some players in the off-season. If your GM has to hit on every transaction, your coaches suck.

I'm looking at FA, not the draft. You can't really grade a draft yet.

How is not extending Becton a good thing? What have they done with the cap space saved by trading CJGJ? Za'Darius Smith doesn't move the needle as a good move to me. He signed the guy who was the best of what was left over.

No, I don't expect him to hit on every move, but IMO, he's missed on every single one this year.

So a couple of things...

1. We just won a Super Bowl in a game where probably the only fans watching that were happy and didn't have to worry about one thing were Eagles fans.

2. It is our 2nd in 8 years and 3rd Super Bowl appearance during that time.

3. I said it before the season started, 11-6 will win the NFC East

4. As bad as they've played, especially the whole last game, they are 4-2. Win the next two (which I think they'll do) and you are 6-2 going into the bye.

5. Are there holes, are there issues...absolutely....but it seems this year's NFL has every team with issues (except maybe Detroit - RIGHT NOW)....Ravens, Chiefs, Rams, Niners, etc...etc....this league really is a week to week league this year so the Eagles can absolutely fix things, get on a roll and still win it.

6. But, it is doubly frustrating that if they had their crap together, Howie didn't let Rogers and Steen ride off (for minimal, affordable contracts).....back to back would almost be a given.

7. It cannot be proven....but I think the Stink From the Bank somehow permeated the Linc and infected the whole Eagles Organization.

Vikas must have brought Les up to speed

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So, this isn’t even a take. So don’t get your collective panties in a twist. Just thinking out loud. But I wonder if drafting Campbell round 1 was just the wrong way to allocate resources. We all loved how transformational Baun was to the defense last year. But he got his money AND we put a 1st round pick into that position. A position which was neglected for years…but maybe it was over neglected, yet neglected for a reason.

This defense needs edge rushers and CB2 and has poor safety play right now. Yet we’ve got an off ball LB on a big contract in Baun, a really good one in Dean, a first round pick in Campbell, and two at least half decent young prospects in Trotter and Mondon.

How much marginal benefit is Campbell ever really going to provide this defense?

I've thought about this too. Overall, it was a pretty weak draft. If anything, I would have preferred trading down and getting more picks in 2026. Campbell was a tremendous value pick though. He's a top 10-15 talent but teams were scared of his shoulder. The one player that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is Will Johnson. He had injury concerns and dropped to the Cardinals at 47.

Can you imagine Quinyon Mitchell, Will Johnson and Cooper DeJean as your top 3 CB? That would be lethal. Had the brought back Oren Burks to bridge the gap until Nakobe Dean is healthy, LB wouldn't have been a need and they could have moved down a little had they felt the need.

Obviously you take best player available, blah blah blah blah, but what should be the positions hierarchy of positions of priority in the draft?

Edge

Oline

Corner

TE

1 hour ago, DaBirds said:

What is the issue in your opinion then?

Is it simply the line play? Combination of a few things? Bad luck?

(Sorry if you posted about it and I missed it)

Yes, I think it is mostly the line play. I think Mailata, Jurgens, and Lane are all playing hurt. Obviously Dickerson was, and Steen has played pretty well. Toth gets overpowered sometimes. Last year we beat teams up. Thursday the Giants beat us up. I think Dickerson and Jurgens had not fully recovered from the injuries they had at the end of last year and have since aggravated them. I miss Becton, of whom I was a big and vocal fan. He was a beast in the run game. The center of our OL is now soft and the IZ, once our staple play, just gets blown up. We pass protect pretty well but we can’t move anyone in the run game. I hope that having 10 days between games will help players heal up but I have my doubts. I think it’s a matter of months, not days, that is needed.

18 hours ago, NOTW said:

During the wins, fans were excited by Campbell & Mukuba making plays. Saidwe have the best LB combo in the league. They've made plays, also mistakes, as typical for rookies. Q & DeJean last year were a blessing, but not the norm. It was obvious last offseason their plan included rookie & 2nd year player growing pains.

Mukuba is the 2nd best safety on the team.

CB2 and pass rush are the issues, along with injuries to Nolan Smith, Carter (missed 2 games so far with the ejection & injury and banged up when playing), now Q is hurt. The rookies will get better, especially when Carter, Q & Smith back.

9 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

Jaws - He called the performance of the D the worst manhandling he can ever remember for an Eagles D. He said it was ugly, disappointing, and disgusting to see the proud Philly D get bullied and beat up.

Reese - The "worst performance he's seen for a Fangio D". He called it "very disappointing".

Agreed. Thought they sucked. Even #53. Turned it off.

40 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So, this isn’t even a take. So don’t get your collective panties in a twist. Just thinking out loud. But I wonder if drafting Campbell round 1 was just the wrong way to allocate resources. We all loved how transformational Baun was to the defense last year. But he got his money AND we put a 1st round pick into that position. A position which was neglected for years…but maybe it was over neglected, yet neglected for a reason.

This defense needs edge rushers and CB2 and has poor safety play right now. Yet we’ve got an off ball LB on a big contract in Baun, a really good one in Dean, a first round pick in Campbell, and two at least half decent young prospects in Trotter and Mondon.

How much marginal benefit is Campbell ever really going to provide this defense?

That’s why I felt 90% certain Campbell was drafted to be an edge rusher because you are 100% right.

38 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So, this isn’t even a take. So don’t get your collective panties in a twist. Just thinking out loud. But I wonder if drafting Campbell round 1 was just the wrong way to allocate resources. We all loved how transformational Baun was to the defense last year. But he got his money AND we put a 1st round pick into that position. A position which was neglected for years…but maybe it was over neglected, yet neglected for a reason.

This defense needs edge rushers and CB2 and has poor safety play right now. Yet we’ve got an off ball LB on a big contract in Baun, a really good one in Dean, a first round pick in Campbell, and two at least half decent young prospects in Trotter and Mondon.

How much marginal benefit is Campbell ever really going to provide this defense?

That makes some sense in isolation but Dean was going to miss considerable time and Campbell was a top-10 pick but for his injury. Smael and Trotter are on the small side. Good for STs but not real beefy.

Not sure if they’re going for a first down or a safe word. And nobody looked at this and said, ‘yo, maybe we don’t?’ 😂

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

How is not extending Becton a good thing?

He has only played 1 full game this year. The rest he's in and out of the lineup worse than Dickerson. He didn't get extended because he's often hurt.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

So, this isn’t even a take. So don’t get your collective panties in a twist. Just thinking out loud. But I wonder if drafting Campbell round 1 was just the wrong way to allocate resources. We all loved how transformational Baun was to the defense last year. But he got his money AND we put a 1st round pick into that position. A position which was neglected for years…but maybe it was over neglected, yet neglected for a reason.

This defense needs edge rushers and CB2 and has poor safety play right now. Yet we’ve got an off ball LB on a big contract in Baun, a really good one in Dean, a first round pick in Campbell, and two at least half decent young prospects in Trotter and Mondon.

How much marginal benefit is Campbell ever really going to provide this defense?

He has the potential to be an amazing LB. They made the right call.

Howie’s biggest offseason mistakes were letting Rodgers go and going into the season with Nolan and Hunt penciled in as the starters at Edge. But they still have arguably the most talented roster in the NFL and no one this season is playing up to their capabilities other than Campbell and Quinyon. So when everyone is underachieving something else is off. They should definitely be better than they are so Howie is only a small part of this.

3 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

They have been out gained in every game and have a -1 point differential. I don’t think it’s pessimistic to say they over achieved. If it was any other team in the NFL everyone would be saying "frauds/paper tigers/smoke and mirrors record”

I don't know. They are coming off a SB win, went to the SB 2 years ago. I don't think a team like that being 4-0 to start the season looks like frauds or paper tigers, especially returning all the talent they did, despite the players that left. As I said, every negative argument, stat and what if has a positive version as well. Last year they started 2-2, lost to the Falcons, squeaked by the Saints then once again lost to the Bucs. Everyone complained that the team was trash and wanted people fired. After the bye, inserted DeJean, the defense took off, the offense found its identity despite fans unhappy with low passing stats, and they went on a massive win streak with the only loss being when Hurts was knocked out of the game, even then they only lost by 3, then went on to win the SB.

So starting 4-0, even 4-1 IMO isn't frauds. You say that about a team that the prior year didn't make the playoffs and had a lot of early luck. Or a team with a soft cupcake schedule. Last year the Vikings and Packers were both frauds for example. The Eagles are a team that's won two SBs in 7 years with different coaches and mostly different players. Siri and Hurts have now had 4 winning seasons making the playoffs, 2 of them gone to the SB losing by only 3 points and then winning dominantly in last year's NFCCG and SB. I know every year is different, but this is a talented team that shouldn't be surprising that they've won their first 4 games. They also did that against tough teams.

The games that Jurgens and Dickerson didn’t miss at the beginning of the season will be missed by both at the end. That, IMO, was an error in judgment of return to play.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

So, this isn’t even a take. So don’t get your collective panties in a twist. Just thinking out loud. But I wonder if drafting Campbell round 1 was just the wrong way to allocate resources. We all loved how transformational Baun was to the defense last year. But he got his money AND we put a 1st round pick into that position. A position which was neglected for years…but maybe it was over neglected, yet neglected for a reason.

This defense needs edge rushers and CB2 and has poor safety play right now. Yet we’ve got an off ball LB on a big contract in Baun, a really good one in Dean, a first round pick in Campbell, and two at least half decent young prospects in Trotter and Mondon.

How much marginal benefit is Campbell ever really going to provide this defense?

Campbell raises the ceiling of the team, but at this stage of his career (rookie LB) he's not a floor raiser. The problem is our DTs aside from Jordan are bad run stuffers and our EDGEs are too small.

Once he figures out run defense, sky's the limit.

24 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Howie’s biggest offseason mistakes were letting Rodgers go and going into the season with Nolan and Hunt penciled in as the starters at Edge. But they still have arguably the most talented roster in the NFL and no one this season is playing up to their capabilities other than Campbell and Quinyon. So when everyone is underachieving something else is off. They should definitely be better than they are so Howie is only a small part of this.

I know that Howie has earned some grace, but over the years its always been popular to pile on Howie and Ive long been a supporter. So thisll probably be written off as me being an apologist.

But Fangio wants tacklers at CB. That was a strength of Ringo's. Also Mitchell, and DeJean.

Rodgers is very slim and tackling isnt seen as a strength of his. I suspect he wasnt really a Fangio guy.

We see how Jackson doesnt want to tackle. And know that Fangio didnt even want him either.

It might not be as acceptable to blame Fangio for...well, anything. But.... Im not sure how much Ringo over Rodgers was a Howie mistake. One was a big bodied solid tackler. One was a small cover CB who lacked that physicality. Not Fangio's style.

16 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I don't know. They are coming off a SB win, went to the SB 2 years ago. I don't think a team like that being 4-0 to start the season looks like frauds or paper tigers, especially returning all the talent they did, despite the players that left. As I said, every negative argument, stat and what if has a positive version as well. Last year they started 2-2, lost to the Falcons, squeaked by the Saints then once again lost to the Bucs. Everyone complained that the team was trash and wanted people fired. After the bye, inserted DeJean, the defense took off, the offense found its identity despite fans unhappy with low passing stats, and they went on a massive win streak with the only loss being when Hurts was knocked out of the game, even then they only lost by 3, then went on to win the SB.

So starting 4-0, even 4-1 IMO isn't frauds. You say that about a team that the prior year didn't make the playoffs and had a lot of early luck. Or a team with a soft cupcake schedule. Last year the Vikings and Packers were both frauds for example. The Eagles are a team that's won two SBs in 7 years with different coaches and mostly different players. Siri and Hurts have now had 4 winning seasons making the playoffs, 2 of them gone to the SB losing by only 3 points and then winning dominantly in last year's NFCCG and SB. I know every year is different, but this is a talented team that shouldn't be surprising that they've won their first 4 games. They also did that against tough teams.

I just meant purely on a season to season basis. Yes, they have a ton of talent. And that’s the only thing that carried them to wins. They got away with sloppy, mistake ridden football because they had enough talent to win a close game, and granted, made plays that matter when it matters most. But I wouldn’t say they played well, even good, the majority of the time. I don’t think they should be 0-6 but I think they are lucky they aren’t 2-4 or 3-3.

And they can absolutely turn it around. But they have to start playing better. If they keep playing the way they are, they will find out that anyone can beat you any week.

Reid/McNabb's teams had some bad starts to seasons in their run (and never won a SB). A few examples.

• 2001 (year after their first NFCCG) they start 2-2. Then play the Giants and squeak by 10-9, on a game winning drive. They were scoreless the first half, only scored a FG in the 3rd and won on a late 4th Q TD pass.

• 2003 they start 2-3. I remember everyone freaking out that if they lost to the Giants to start 2-4, the season was over, no way they'd make another NFCCG. They required another Miracle at the Meadowlands Brian Westbrook punt return TD with 1:16 left in the 4th quarter.

• Even in 2004 when they started 8-0, they needed an OT win against the Browns with Jeff Garcia at QB.

• 2008 they start 2-3. later have the infamous tie with the Bengals where McNabb didn't know the OT rules, McNabb stunk in the Ravens game and got benched for Kolb. Eagles lost 36-7, their only score on a kickoff return. They go on to make the NFCCG.

The Chiefs in 2022 went on to win the SB of course. But early in their season they lost to the lowly Colts who went on to be 4-12-1. They also needed an OT win against the Titans who sucked too, they finished 7-10.

They had close wins and had their share of "could have" negatives. They beat the Jags by 1 TD, the Bengals by only 3, then us by only 3. There were plenty of "if only" moments in that SB to say they could have lost it to us.

Chiefs in 2023 defending their title didn't look great in the beginning. Barely beat bad teams the Jags, Jets. Lost to the Eagles regular season, lost to the Raiders (8-9) with the great Aidan O'Connell at QB (who?). A lot of their playoff wins were close games over the years.

The Patriots in their run had some slow starts as well.

2003 started 2-2, one loss was their opening game after winning the SB the prior season and got blown out by the Bills 31-0. (Oddly, later that season they flipped it opposite and beat the Bills with the same score of 31-0). They needed OT in two games against the Dolphins (10-6) and Texans (5-11).

Many of the Pats playoff wins were close scores.

BTW Tom Brady's numbers in his early seasons where he won 3 SBs in 4 seasons were very similar to Hurts numbers so far. Just saying. (No, Hurts isn't as good as Brady, but stats wise Brady wasn't impressive early on).

2014 they start the year 2-2 including squeaking by the Raiders. 2018 they start 2-2 losing back to back games before going on a win streak, then losing some more and only finishing 11-5. Win an OT game against the Chiefs in the AFCCG and then only beat the Rams 13-3 in the SB, Brady with worse numbers than Hurts SB last year.

We watch the Eagles and are overly critical and nit pick every bad thing - often dismiss or excuse the good things unless it's a major blowout/dominant victory that is super convincing - and then look around the league at other teams with fluke wins, plenty of "what ifs" where they could have lost, great teams that have losses to bad teams at times, just barely squeaking by in certain playoff games, playoff wins with fluke plays, luck and saved by the refs and all that kind of stuff. Eagles fans look at those teams and think they're great and are often "scared" of playing them. But when it comes to our team, so many fans are overly, extremely negative and cannot see any good, even in wins. I'm not saying there aren't concerns, I've expressed many concerns and criticisms of where they need to improve. But other teams have great comeback wins or just barely beat a team by a FG and we look at that and say they are winning teams that win championships. When we do it, fans say "well they could have lost if..."

This isn't 2023 again. The defense has competent coaching and a core of star players. They're dealing with a hole at CB2 and a lackluster pass rush but there's a lot there and Fangio will get them to improve, especially when injured guys return and are healthy. Howie needs to trade for a corner because CB2 is pure garbage. But other than that, they have the talent and coaching to win. On offense, the talent is there, the O line is just banged up. Patullo and Siri need to sort out the play design and play calling and cater to the players strengths. I don't think they'll make any coaching changes, so they need to sort it out. But they have the talent to win they just need to put it together.

21 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I just meant purely on a season to season basis. Yes, they have a ton of talent. And that’s the only thing that carried them to wins. They got away with sloppy, mistake ridden football because they had enough talent to win a close game, and granted, made plays that matter when it matters most. But I wouldn’t say they played well, even good, the majority of the time. I don’t think they should be 0-6 but I think they are lucky they aren’t 2-4 or 3-3.

And they can absolutely turn it around. But they have to start playing better. If they keep playing the way they are, they will find out that anyone can beat you any week.

I get what you're saying, and it hasn't been dominant or convincing this year. I am not ready to panic at this point, despite how bad the Giants game was. I want to see the next 2 games. Then how they are after the bye. Will they figure things out, get guys healthy, and turn things around? Or will they fold and collapse?

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

Howie’s biggest offseason mistakes were letting Rodgers go and going into the season with Nolan and Hunt penciled in as the starters at Edge. But they still have arguably the most talented roster in the NFL and no one this season is playing up to their capabilities other than Campbell and Quinyon. So when everyone is underachieving something else is off. They should definitely be better than they are so Howie is only a small part of this.

You don't think Baun and Cooper are playing up to their capabilities? Even Jordan Davis who is off to the best start of his career?

2 minutes ago, NOTW said:

We watch the Eagles and are overly critical and nit pick every bad thing - often dismiss or excuse the good things unless it's a major blowout/dominant victory that is super convincing - and then look around the league at other teams with fluke wins, plenty of "what ifs" where they could have lost, great teams that have losses to bad teams at times, just barely squeaking by in certain playoff games, playoff wins with fluke plays, luck and saved by the refs and all that kind of stuff. Eagles fans look at those teams and think they're great and are often "scared" of playing them.

Yes we do. I guess you forgot that 'fan' is actually short for 'fanatic'. Logic isn't really the strong suit of a fanatic. But that's ok. It's the fanaticism that keeps us coming back even when the league decides that we aren't their focus, because they are too busy wooing someone else's money.

56 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Howie’s biggest offseason mistakes were letting Rodgers go and going into the season with Nolan and Hunt penciled in as the starters at Edge. But they still have arguably the most talented roster in the NFL and no one this season is playing up to their capabilities other than Campbell and Quinyon. So when everyone is underachieving something else is off. They should definitely be better than they are so Howie is only a small part of this.

That argument falls apart. Their OL is busted up and failing. The DL cannot stop the run. They have no CB2. There is no OL or DB depth. NOT the most talented roster, at least not now.

7 minutes ago, just relax said:

That argument falls apart. Their OL is busted up and failing. The DL cannot stop the run. They have no CB2. There is no OL or DB depth. NOT the most talented roster, at least not now.

Yup...for all the griping it is about the short term impact of the losses...it was done by the brain trust for a reason. In two years, when the Eagles have held onto all that young defensive talent with reasonable contracts and still have money to make a big FA splash. When all the new draftees on offense begin to replace the older veterans at the end of their contracts...it will all make sense. I am going to remain patient until then...