28 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

And who do you think is designing the plays? You don't think that falls on the OC?

A combination of all the coaches, but mostly Sirianni.

9 hours ago, UK Eagle said:

There is a simple solution to this. Ban players leading with the crown of their head when tackling and ensure they make an effort to wrap arms when tackling to ensure technique is improved. From a "player safety" perspective, you want as little helmet to helmet contact as possible; you can keep improving helmets, but the best cure against injury is to improve how players tackle. Players launching themselves at another should be seen in a worse light than taunting or brushing the face mask of a QB

Yep. He led with the crown of his helmet and his forearm. He missed Hurt's head but it was a dirty hit and should have been a penalty.

25 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So either our training staff missed a concussion in the franchise qb who is front and center on every play…the same staff suiting up Mailata, Dickerson, Carter, and pre IR Nolan Smith each week…or the franchise qb is capable of stretches of play so inept we have to assume he was concussed.

I am disconcerted that one of these two things must be true.

Or neither. It’s not a binary world. Also, there a degrees of concussions. I know there have been times I’ve been a little stupid but I thought I was fine…but wasn’t.

12 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Yep. He led with the crown of his helmet and his forearm. He missed Hurt's head but it was a dirty hit and should have been a penalty.

I am assuming you are referring to the play at the 9:33 mark of the third qtr? He (#23) definitely did not lead with the crown of the helmet, he actually let up albeit late and barely made contact with his shoulder. Hurts slide was extremely late. I honestly don't think Hurts realized the guy was going to close that fast, resulting in the late slide. It could have been much, much worse. The defender had already launched before the slide began, how is he supposed to stop himself?

17 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

A combination of all the coaches, but mostly Sirianni.

Oh ok, so we're back to Sirianni deciding to regress from his own concepts and philosophies that were moderately successful last year and even more successful in 2022 and instead revert to the failed passing concepts and play designs of 2023. How unfortunate for everyone that he decided to do that.

34 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Lazy and stubborn play design

Our defense has done this against Dallas, KC, LAR and Bucs. All offenses are top 16 in yards & Points. Dallas is #1 in most categories. LAR top 5 in most too.

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

Our defense has done this against Dallas, KC, LAR and Bucs. All offenses are top 16 in yards & Points. Dallas is #1 in most categories. LAR top 5 in most too.

Pretty dang impressive

20 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Oh ok, so we're back to Sirianni deciding to regress from his own concepts and philosophies that were moderately successful last year and even more successful in 2022 and instead revert to the failed passing concepts and play designs of 2023. How unfortunate for everyone that he decided to do that.

If you disagree, you honestly think the Eagles have had 4 different playbooks in 4 years given the Eagles have had a different OC 4 years in a row now? You really think the coaching staff would do that to Hurts? Not to mention Patullo is Sirianni's guy and they both come from the same system so their play design and concepts are likely the same anyway.

And you also think that in 2023 and 2025 they just happened to hire the two dumbest OCs on the planet who are so dumb they understand nothing about designing offenses? Even though Brian Johnson was successful in college as an OC and Kevin Patullo was passing game coordinator for the Eagles in 2022 when the passing game was great? C'mon man.

I think every year Sirianni sits down with Hurts, they go over what they want the offense to look like, Sirianni and his coaches then get together and design an offense based on that framework and Sirianni gives final approval of the scheme for the offense and the game plans for each week.

9 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

If you disagree, you honestly think the Eagles have had 4 different playbooks in 4 years given the Eagles have had a different OC 4 years in a row now? You really think the coaching staff would do that to Hurts? Not to mention Patullo is Sirianni's guy and they both come from the same system so their play design and concepts are likely the same anyway.

Yes, it's 4 different playbooks. The offensive systems may be similar enough that the verbiage isn't foreign to Hurts every year. But yes, they're obviously different playbooks. Though there still may be some truth to the last statement there.

17 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

And you also think that in 2023 and 2025 they just happened to hire the two dumbest OCs on the planet who are so dumb they understand nothing about designing offenses? Even though Brian Johnson was successful in college as an OC and Kevin Patullo was passing game coordinator for the Eagles in 2022 when the passing game was great? C'mon man.

Yeah man, some coordinators suck at their job. Good job figuring how the NFL is and has always been.

14 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

If you disagree, you honestly think the Eagles have had 4 different playbooks in 4 years given the Eagles have had a different OC 4 years in a row now? You really think the coaching staff would do that to Hurts? Not to mention Patullo is Sirianni's guy and they both come from the same system so their play design and concepts are likely the same anyway.

And you also think that in 2023 and 2025 they just happened to hire the two dumbest OCs on the planet who are so dumb they understand nothing about designing offenses? Even though Brian Johnson was successful in college as an OC and Kevin Patullo was passing game coordinator for the Eagles in 2022 when the passing game was great? C'mon man.

I think every year Sirianni sits down with Hurts, they go over what they want the offense to look like, Sirianni and his coaches then get together and design an offense based on that framework and Sirianni gives final approval of the scheme for the offense and the game plans for each week.

Yeah...I think you are getting pretty far away from your original conjecture...I see no way that Sirianni and Hurts meet alone without the OC and Run coordinator...they do it as a collaborative team. My take on Sirianni is that his leadership style is referred to as "authentic leadership"...it is centered on building relationships and collaboration...if he is trusting Patullo to make the play calls on game days, he will be included in every conversation...

14 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yes, it's 4 different playbooks. The offensive systems may be similar enough that the verbiage isn't foreign to Hurts every year. But yes, they're obviously different playbooks. Though there still may be some truth to the last statement there.

Yeah...I am not ready to buy into that. Why reinvent the wheel every year...I see the playbook as more of a fluid document where things can be added or prioritized and some plays can be archived. I doubt very much that with several common denominators, coaches, QB over a period of years...there is a need to create something new.

After some reflection and a rewatch of the game, where I see we are with the offensive scheme is that it isn't anything fundamentally different from last year. We are largely running the same offense - simple pass concepts like all curls, go/out combos etc and lack of under centre play-action, bootlegs etc. We probably also aren't going to get fundamental shifts in some of those things - 4 different OC's have settled on a similar basic offense and to me the reason is clear - Jalen isn't at his best when turning his back to the D and QB is the guy you need to maximise. We saw KM trying to put some more under centre passing into the offense last year but slowly got abandoned through the year. Nothing wrong with it - the offense we have can be successful as it has been.

However, although KP hasn't installed some brand new offense, he has tinkered with it as you need to do year-to-year. The problem is those tweaks aren't working. Two key ones are:

1. More runs from under centre: Without any threat of pass from these formations, these plays can only work when the OL is dominating. Both sides know what's coming but our OL just blocks anyway. This is clearly not happening, and at least one guy on any given play gets beaten on his block which then blows up the play

2. Increased used of 12 package: Calcy doesn't offer enough in blocking to make up for the compressed space on run plays, and he isnt as effective as Dotson for passing plays. Whoever is in this role won't have many looks (behind AJ, Smitty, Dallas and Saquon in terms of looks) - and while Dotson has never been a focal point, he was at least getting vertical clearouts and creating a bit more space for the primary guys.

Execution has also had its issues and is compounding these issues but schematically, I think KP needs to return to more of a shotgun centric 11-personnel attack to spread the field, at least until the OL is healthy. Also stress defences by using threat of Jalen running a bit more on Barkley carries.

11 hours ago, Waiting4Someday said:

They got their own Iowa CB... and Patrick Surtain is OK too. Sorry, AJ - another week in the box.

They also got their own Texas safety

3 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

They also got their own Texas safety

Ah, didn’t know that - I see that Jahdae Barron (also a Texas product and 2025 1st round pick) hasn’t cracked the starting line up. I didn’t he’d translate outside, but thought he’d make it as a nickel by this point.

29 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yes, it's 4 different playbooks. The offensive systems may be similar enough that the verbiage isn't foreign to Hurts every year. But yes, they're obviously different playbooks. Though there still may be some truth to the last statement there.

Couldn’t disagree with you more. I think you are way way off.

3 hours ago, aptosbird said:

He said at one point about two weeks ago..when asked about all these concerns…that new plays were going to be implemented in the near future which threw up big red flags for me…is he actually intentionally withholding parts of the playbook for some future game…if true, that is insane.

My suspicion is they want to transition to a more conventional offense to protect Hurts (and make it easy to plug in McKee)

With limited preseason snaps and Dickinsonn out, Steen a new starter, Lane in and out, they were probably more worried about establishing the running game to start the season.

At this point, they probably have accepted they won't be able to run like last season and have to modify the scheme.

23 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Because it's not Patullo's offense. This isn't a situation like when Kyle Shanahan was in Atlanta that it was entirely his offense and scheme for example with a defensive head coach.

People made this mistake in 2023 blaming everything on Brian Johnson. It was stupid then, and subsequently proven wrong, and it's stupid now. I'm not saying he has zero culpability, but it's absurd that everyone is blaming Kevin Fing Patullo for the offensive problem. Just ridiculous. It's because people don't want to accept that there are deeper issues at play here and more issues at play. Just blaming one guy is easy.

There are definitely deeper issues. I think a big part of the problem is that Siranni just isn't some sort of offensive guru. Patullo, however, is his guy. He's not without blame and ultimately is the primary coach putting together the game plan. He deserves blame even if Sirianni and Hurts have influence. The bigger issue is that he is calling plays.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

So either our training staff missed a concussion in the franchise qb who is front and center on every play…the same staff suiting up Mailata, Dickerson, Carter, and pre IR Nolan Smith each week…or the franchise qb is capable of stretches of play so inept we have to assume he was concussed.

I am disconcerted that one of these two things must be true.

It may have been a shoulder or neck issue vs. a concussion. It's possible that they missed the concussion because it was mild but if it was a head injury I don't think the training staff can clear the player. I think they have to have the independent neurologist clear the player.

8 hours ago, vikas83 said:

I was trying to think of other guys that made sense, and it really is only Doug. Former HC with play calling experience, and connections to Philly as well. Doug is unlikely to get another HC gig at this point, so this might be a stepping stone to being an OC for him as well.

I think they would bring Frank back before Doug

1 minute ago, tuffstuff07 said:

I think they would bring Frank back before Doug

And Siri has a connection with Frank which could make it more or less likely. Less likely because he may want his mentor working for him

21 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

After some reflection and a rewatch of the game, where I see we are with the offensive scheme is that it isn't anything fundamentally different from last year. We are largely running the same offense - simple pass concepts like all curls, go/out combos etc and lack of under centre play-action, bootlegs etc. We probably also aren't going to get fundamental shifts in some of those things - 4 different OC's have settled on a similar basic offense and to me the reason is clear - Jalen isn't at his best when turning his back to the D and QB is the guy you need to maximise. We saw KM trying to put some more under centre passing into the offense last year but slowly got abandoned through the year. Nothing wrong with it - the offense we have can be successful as it has been.

However, although KP hasn't installed some brand new offense, he has tinkered with it as you need to do year-to-year. The problem is those tweaks aren't working. Two key ones are:

1. More runs from under centre: Without any threat of pass from these formations, these plays can only work when the OL is dominating. Both sides know what's coming but our OL just blocks anyway. This is clearly not happening, and at least one guy on any given play gets beaten on his block which then blows up the play

2. Increased used of 12 package: Calcy doesn't offer enough in blocking to make up for the compressed space on run plays, and he isnt as effective as Dotson for passing plays. Whoever is in this role won't have many looks (behind AJ, Smitty, Dallas and Saquon in terms of looks) - and while Dotson has never been a focal point, he was at least getting vertical clearouts and creating a bit more space for the primary guys.

Execution has also had its issues and is compounding these issues but schematically, I think KP needs to return to more of a shotgun centric 11-personnel attack to spread the field, at least until the OL is healthy. Also stress defences by using threat of Jalen running a bit more on Barkley carries.

Thank you. I do not know why more people aren't acknowledging that FOUR separate OC's (5 if you include Siri as playcaller)....have all drifted into the same basic offensive concepts. THERE IS A REASON THEY ARE ALL DOING THIS.

Hurts is not a scrub. He has proven that. But we do know what he does well and doesn't, where he's comfortable, where he isn't and when he will and will not push the tempo and the ball downfield with more than just rainbow go-route bombs.

They can change wrinkles here and there and they'll have good and bad stretches, but the offense is what it is for a reason. And it's not because professional, SB winning football coaches do not understand how to draw up plays and design routes.

1 hour ago, just relax said:

Or neither. It’s not a binary world. Also, there a degrees of concussions. I know there have been times I’ve been a little stupid but I thought I was fine…but wasn’t.

I know there have been times I've been a little bit stupid I thought I was fine…but wasn’t.

- Conway Twitty

- @justrelax

1 hour ago, Joe Ball said:

Pretty dang impressive

Look at where Dallas and the Giants are. . NFC BEAST.