7 hours ago, Freshmilk said:

Why not just use Steichen's passing concepts? Both Smith and Brown were 1,000+ yard receivers under him with Hurts as the QB. Seems like a simple solution.

The philosophy of risk avoidance put into place in the Bye Week last year labels many of Steichen’s passing concepts as too risky.

JMO

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Ok, so now the '22 offense was actually the same basic offense as we saw the following year in '23?

Oh the pretzels some of you guys twist yourselves into to try to make an argument.

I'm not consistently anti-Hurts, even if I often fall back into leaning that way. The '22 offense was seen once and never repeated. If Hurts were just waiting to unleash that again and again and again they never would have stopped running it that way. The run the offense this way for a reason.

You think the coaches enjoy running the ball on 3rd and 10? Think they are trying to get boo'd? Are they calling for routes 2 yards shy of the sticks on 3rd down to force bigger windows underneath the coverage in hopes of converting a 4th down tush push simply because they are obsessed with taunting the rest of the NFL with the tush push?

They are all doing this for a reason.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

I'm not consistently anti-Hurts, even if I often fall back into leaning that way. The '22 offense was seen once and never repeated. If Hurts were just waiting to unleash that again and again and again they never would have stopped running it that way. The run the offense this way for a reason.

You think the coaches enjoy running the ball on 3rd and 10? Think they are trying to get boo'd? Are they calling for routes 2 yards shy of the sticks on 3rd down to force bigger windows underneath the coverage in hopes of converting a 4th down tush push simply because they are obsessed with taunting the rest of the NFL with the tush push?

They are all doing this for a reason.

Oh ok, so the '22 offense wasn't basic, but now we're right back to "they don't trust Hurts!"

Just now, mattwill said:

The philosophy of risk avoidance put into place in the Bye Week last year labels many of Steichen’s passing concepts as too risky.

JMO

I think, with this defense...with Hurts' clutch knack for willing the offense to 1st downs and TDs with his legs and opportunistically with his arm when absolutely necessary...there is some element of belief that all they need to do is avoid turnovers and control the clock on offense and they are going to win the vast majority of games they play. And they aren't exactly wrong.

12 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You think Kellen Moore came in and mostly ran Brian Johnson's plays? Or that Brian Johnson was running Steichen's? No. More often than not, they're gonna install their own set over the summer, and that's the majority of what you'll see from the offense on Sundays.

A new OC doesn't come in and literally throw out everything, but they're gonna have their own philosophy and concepts they will want to run that will often be markedly different than their predecessor. By and large, you'll always see a new offense with a new OC unless they came up under the same coaching tree.

A guy like Ben Johnson doesn't have the success he does because he's only a good play caller on game days. It's the other 6 days of the week and throughout the off-season, where he's putting in the work to self-scout, identify his own tendencies and tells, figure out better route combos to expose weaknesses in each of the coverage calls, work alerts in as blitz beaters, etc.

It's constant churn. Avoiding stagnation is virtually a requirement in this league to stay one step ahead of DCs. That's what separate the great offensive minds from the mediocre ones. And until someone can convince me otherwise, Patullo is firmly in the latter category.

That is all well and good if not for the fact that all the OC’s work with one big constant, Sirianni. What you’re saying makes sense if there is a wholesale coaching change. I believe the playbook belongs to Sirianni and always has. His leadership style is collaborative so again…the playbook is a fluid document…the new OC gets to roll out some wrinkles but that comes from with consensus of all key stakeholders. That’s my take…

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Oh ok, so the '22 wasn't basic but not we're right back to "they don't trust Hurts!"

Well, finish your sentence. Trust hurts to what?

They trust Hurts to find a way to win the game, one way or another, on a 4th quarter drive. They trust Hurts to help control the clock and get just enough points to win by playing his dynamic brand of football.

They don't trust Hurts to throw the ball 28+ times per game while pushing it downfield with anything besides a 1-2x per game deep rainbow. That's simple observational fact they don't trust him to do that. If you think otherwise, I'm not sure what to tell you.

6 hours ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

and hurts is missing him at times when he's open.

Or delivering the ball to him late … giviing the defender time to react to the comeback, drive to the catch point, and convert an open AJ into a covered AJ.

6 hours ago, Penn7980 said:

Watched a highlight video of AJ in the TB game. The passes that targeted him in fact were off the marks and not catchable. Those misses were more on Hurts than on AJ. They have been teammates for several seasons and to be off so much is unbelievable. The coaches have to work with them to get everybody on the same page.

First Half or Second Half. I believe Hurts was mildly concussed in the Second Half.

Just now, aptosbird said:

That is all well and good if not for the fact that all the OC’s work with one big constant, Sirianni. What you’re saying makes sense if there is a wholesale coaching change. I believe the playbook belongs to Sirianni and always has. His leadership style is collaborative so again…the playbook is a fluid document…the new OC gets to roll out some wrinkles but that comes from with consensus of all key stakeholders. That’s my take…

It's fluid enough that Brian Johnson was more often than not calling plays he installed, not ones utilized by Steichen. And when Moore came here, he was mostly calling plays he brought in, not Johnson's.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to split hairs on whether it's Sirianni's or Patullo's miscues that are resulting in what we're seeing on the field. Since we all know Sirianni was the one behind the decision to name Patullo as OC, the buck ultimately stops with him anyways. I'm just taking issue with some of the more ridiculous takes on the matter, like the '22 offense being the same basic one we saw in '23. I mean, I literally can't fathom how someone with even the most basic understanding of the game can watch the weekly all-22 clips of those two seasons and come to the conclusion that the route combos and play designs were the same from Steichen to Johnson.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

It's fluid enough that Brian Johnson was more often than not calling plays he installed, not ones utilized by Steichen. And when Moore came here, he was mostly calling plays he brought in, not Johnson's.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to split hairs on whether it's Sirianni's or Patullo's miscues that are resulting in what we're seeing on the field. Since we all know Sirianni was the one behind the decision to name Patullo as OC, the buck ultimately stops with him anyways. I'm just taking issue with some of the more ridiculous takes on the matter, like the '22 offense being the same basic one we saw in '23. I mean, I literally can't fathom how someone with even the most basic understanding of the game can watch the weekly all-22 clips of those two seasons and come to the conclusion that the route combos and play designs were the same from Steichen to Johnson.

If you remove the results, how different was early '24 with Moore vs. '22......

9 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

They don't trust Hurts to throw the ball 28+ times per game while pushing it downfield with anything besides a 1-2x per game deep rainbow. That's simple observational fact they don't trust him to do that. If you think otherwise, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Hurts averaged almost 30 attempts per game in 2022. If this is your attempt at trolling, you're almost as bad at it as Patullo is at being an offensive coordinator.

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

Hurts averaged almost 30 attempts per game in 2022. If this is your attempt at trolling, you're almost as bad at it and Patullo is at being an offensive coordinator.

How many years ago was that? Have they done it since? You are the one arguing how different the 2022 coaches are from 2025.

You think they trust him to do that? Honestly. Tell me the coaching staff trusts Hurts to throw 28+ times per game in a vertical offense.

I had a dream the Eagles were Super Bowl champions and started the following season unbeaten. Good thing I woke up and came in here to read about the sky falling and scapegoating

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

How many years ago was that? Have they done it since? You are the one arguing how different the 2022 coaches are from 2025.

You think they trust him to do that? Honestly. Tell me the coaching staff trusts Hurts to throw 28+ times per game in a vertical offense.

It's because it's not about trust, it's about the passing concepts: play design, route combos, alerts, checks at the LOS, etc. It's all literally on film, you can go watch it.

And if you're not understanding what you're watching, dig up JT O'Sullivan's videos from 2023 where he literally explains it step by step and points out where the issues are with the design of the plays themselves that were not issues the year prior. It's all the same stuff you'll hear from Dan Orlovsky or even the twitter guys like Shane Haff and eagles Eric. They're not all conspiring to besmirch the upstanding reputation of Kevin Patullo or Nick Sirianni.

31 minutes ago, mattwill said:

The philosophy of risk avoidance put into place in the Bye Week last year labels many of Steichen’s passing concepts as too risky.

JMO

Need to find a balance but wont happen till the anaemic offence causes them to lose a game or two

So the toy internet analysts theory is that they are using the same elementary and uninventive concepts that the Bucs were somehow unprepared for in half one but remembered how easy they are to defend in half 2?

8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

It's because it's not about trust, it's about the passing concepts: play design, route combos, alerts, checks at the LOS, etc. It's all literally on film, you can go watch it.

And if you're not understanding what you're watching, dig up JT O'Sullivan's videos from 2023 where he literally explains it step by step and points out where the issues are with the design of the plays themselves that were not issues the year prior. It's all the same stuff you'll hear from Dan Orlovsky or even the twitter guys like Shane Haff and eagles Eric. They're not all conspiring to besmirch the upstanding reputation of Kevin Patullo or Nick Sirianni.

We had issues last year as well . The running game was so good it masked that passing offence inconsistency.

Hell here is an article from December discussing exactly that. Things clicked and the whole thing started to hum late in the year.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/42862414/eagles-not-same-page-passing-attack-struggles

1 minute ago, kiwieagle said:

We had issues last year as well . The running game was so good it masked that passing offence inconsistency.

Hell here is an article from December discussing exactly that. Things clicked and the whole thing started to hum late in the year.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/42862414/eagles-not-same-page-passing-attack-struggles

I'm not saying we didn't have issues under Moore, just not to this degree.

16 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

It's because it's not about trust, it's about the passing concepts: play design, route combos, alerts, checks at the LOS, etc. It's all literally on film, you can go watch it.

And if you're not understanding what you're watching, dig up JT O'Sullivan's videos from 2023 where he literally explains it step by step and points out where the issues are with the design of the plays themselves that were not issues the year prior. It's all the same stuff you'll hear from Dan Orlovsky or even the twitter guys like Shane Haff and eagles Eric. They're not all conspiring to besmirch the upstanding reputation of Kevin Patullo or Nick Sirianni.

So philosophically and conceptually, they want to throw the ball for about 150 yards per game mostly short of the sticks and exclusively along the LOS?...even if Patrick Mahomes was running the offense? These are just the concepts they want.

You can argue they should trust Hurts more than they do and they need to take the training wheels off and throw more like 2022. And then everyone can debate how that would actually go. I find it very hard to argue that the current coaches actually do trust Hurts to run that kind of offense but simply prefer this iteration of NFL offense.

So are we all thinking the new snapper gets number 57? What else is there that would be available?

Funny thing is Patullo was the passing game coordiantor. The OL is clearly worse this year too so far. Pretty significantly right now. That's having an impact. Don't get me wrong if this was the entire sample we had to go on I'd say Patullo should go. But it won't be the entire sample so we'll see if Patullo and the rest of the O improve over the course of the season. I do think Sirriani will be very reluctant to fire Patullo if it came to that. It would have to stem from Hurts talking to Lurie I think . Again long way to go. The O could put 3 quarters together next week and be on their way. The opponents have been very good and that is being underestimated too imo

1 minute ago, pgcd3 said:

Funny thing is Patullo was the passing game coordiantor. The OL is clearly worse this year too so far. Pretty significantly right now. That's having an impact. Don't get me wrong if this was the entire sample we had to go on I'd say Patullo should go. But it won't be the entire sample so we'll see if Patullo and the rest of the O improve over the course of the season. I do think Sirriani will be very reluctant to fire Patullo if it came to that. It would have to stem from Hurts talking to Lurie I think . Again long way to go. The O could put 3 quarters together next week and be on their way. The opponents have been very good and that is being underestimated too imo

That's the thing. Patullo was the passing game coordinator last year. The offensive minded HC is unchanged. As defending SB champs, they are literally trying to recreate and do exactly what they did last year. That's part of why freaking Patullo is now the OC instead of an outsider. Not having Kellen Moore in the building is not the reason the results are so different.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

So philosophically and conceptually, they want to throw the ball for about 150 yards per game mostly short of the sticks and exclusively along the LOS?...even if Patrick Mahomes was running the offense? These are just the concepts they want.

You can argue they should trust Hurts more than they do and they need to take the training wheels off and throw more like 2022. And then everyone can debate how that would actually go. I find it very hard to argue that the current coaches actually do trust Hurts to run that kind of offense but simply prefer this iteration of NFL offense.

Sure and Sean Desai, philosophically and conceptually, didn't want to get his sheet pushed in on a weekly basis, but that's exactly what happened because he wasn't good at his job.

Look, you can keep hammering this notion that the offense looks the same under 4 different OC's and has always been "basic" but it's just not backed up by what's getting put on tape. The same tape Orlovsky, O'Sullivan, Shane Haff, Honest Football, eagles Eric, etc, all are seeing and saying the same thing. So either they're all wrong, and eagle45 from the emb is right, or the offensive passing concepts are clearly not the same, and what we saw under Steichen was not basic nor is it similar to what we're seeing now.

I understand they haven't looked great but they've beaten three really good teams and the cowgirls when they had hope of being good. The stuff we're seeing can be fixed over the next four weeks and during the bye. We have some mediocre to bad teams over the next four weeks so that should help us get to the bye in good shape.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Sure and Sean Desai, philosophically and conceptually, didn't want to get his sheet pushed in on a weekly basis, but that's exactly what happened because he wasn't good at his job.

Look, you can keep hammering this notion that the offense looks the same under 4 different OC's and has always been "basic" but it's just not backed up by what's getting put on tape. The same tape Orlovsky, O'Sullivan, Shane Haff, Honest Football, eagles Eric, etc, all are seeing and saying the same thing. So either they're all wrong, and eagle45 from the emb is right, or the offensive passing concepts are clearly not the same, and what we saw under Steichen was not basic nor is it similar to what we're seeing now.

So Orlovsky, O'Sullivan, Shane Haff, Honest Football, eagles Eric are all right and the current offensive coaching staff, all of whom have SB rings, are idiots and running these failed concepts because they feel like it.