As soon as the broncos went to playing more zone the offense went to crap. Sheil and seyed been saying this for a couple weeks now. The analytics tell you they are awful against zone. At some point have to actually be able to beat zone otherwise teams are just going to play zone against you

2 minutes ago, Cliftoma said:

Losing a game to a likely playoff team isn't the end of the world. Hell, as bad as they played in the 2nd half, they will had a chance to win the game.

The most disconcerting thing is seeing an obvious lack in play design, in game adjustments and attention to detail on the offense. It all points to coaching and an inexperienced OC. Either they have to fire the guy or bring in experienced OC as a consultant. They definitely need an outside voice to break out of this.

They need something at the OL or, if they really have confidence in the backups, play them to get our starters healthy. While I see a need for more pass rush, getting Smith back into the rotation should help. If they dont have confidencein these backups to play, then they absolutely should find a better option. They need to be able to run the ball effectively.

I wish they bring in outside OC. Frankly even last year at times the offense had problems where it be stagnant in the passing game but the run game was so damn good it could overcome it. I think they need a voice from the outside that’s watched them telling them things they are not doing and need to switch up

Bo Wulf's theory on the Eagles offensive struggles is that Jalen Hurts has a lot more say in the scheme and game plan than people want to admit. He said it was pretty telling that everyone over the past couple weeks when asked what's wrong with the offense have defended the coaching but were more evasive when answering questions about Hurts. And EJ Smith brought up the point that Hurts said in the offseason "The offense is going to look how Jalen Hurts wants it to look."

And that while Hurts is playing well, the plays that are called are dictated by what Hurts wants to run and that's what is frustrating the players because there is some disagreement there on how to best be effective.

But even if that were true, my counter to that would be: how hard is it to run a couple Fing naked bootlegs per game? They're simple plays. You roll out, have a clean view of the field, and then can either take off or throw to an open man. That should be something Jalen Hurts would be foaming at the mouth to run. So why does this offense have none of that? I find it very hard to believe that there are very simple plays every other team can run that "Jalen Hurts is not comfortable running." I'm not talking about back shoulder timing routes 30 yards down field here. I'm talking high school level stuff that is about as primitive as it gets.

1 minute ago, jojodancer said:

Another thing to remember about yesterday is the Broncos almost played a perfect game and is what it took for them to win. Eagles shot themselves over and over again with ill timed penalties and missed plays and just about pulled it off anyway. Like the Commanders game last couple of years. The biggest error yesterday was the offense not capitalizing and exposing Singleton like they did with the Barkley touchdown. They do need a Fangio type to run the offense. No doubt. A few badly managed plays a game can cost you.

I don't think Denver had a perfect game. They played well on the defensive line. The defense was gassed and gave up plays they wouldn't normally give up but the lack of pass rush with 4 down is an issue. You raise a good point about Singleton. It's not like the Commanders game in the sense that they were one drop from winning the game and had a good game on offense. This is a team that has not been able to get it together on offense. It's clear that Sirianni, Hurts and Patullo need an outside voice to help them. There are no Fangio types on the offensive side the ball that aren't head coaches.

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Besides all that. They are also very undisciplined. Way too many just dumb penalties. Particularly defense we get a lot of just dumb dumb penalties that we can control. Their offensive penalties are also killing their drives. Yesterday is a perfect example. Not saying they are or aren’t but watching them live then re-watching they don’t always seem focused and their attention detail comes and goes.

Baun's penalty was bad but understandable. Carter had the jump which was frustrating. Quinyon needs to stop grabbing because refs were looking for it. I don't know if any of them are as dumb as what I saw on offense. Steen needed to hold up getting to the second level although I always feel like Hurts holds the ball too long rather than just rifling the throw. The illegal motion penalty is just sloppiness and a function of getting to the line too late. I do think the Eagles are getting more scrutiny and are facing more calls.

No one is talking about how bad the ST units were and especially how bad of a day Mann had. The Broncos punter had no problem pinning the Eagles behind the 20. I think Mann had three punts go for touchbacks and one punt that he shanked.

12 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

Perfect game? They scored 3 points in the first 3 qtrs punting 7 times. They played an outstanding 4th qtr, I'll give them that. The Eagles offense gave this game away. Heck, two first downs and a FG when we had the ball on our 42 after the first Denver TD would likely have won that game. Instead we lose 6 yards on that drive.

Perfect in the sense they didn't beat themselves with stupid penalties and kept the mistakes down at key junctures of the game. Besides that, Eagles were outcoached. Payton knows how to press the right buttons at the the right times.

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

As soon as the broncos went to playing more zone the offense went to crap. Sheil and seyed been saying this for a couple weeks now. The analytics tell you they are awful against zone. At some point have to actually be able to beat zone otherwise teams are just going to play zone against you

This speaks to a coaching staff that cannot foresee the most basic adjustments and counter them.

19 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Goedert had to adjust to the ball too

Looked like Brown stopped when he realized Hurts wasn't throwing to him

Disclaimer for the idiots: that doesn't excuse Brown for not giving his all

14 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Looks like Brown didn't have a good angle to the block

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

I don't think Denver had a perfect game. They played well on the defensive line. The defense was gassed and gave up plays they wouldn't normally give up but the lack of pass rush with 4 down is an issue. You raise a good point about Singleton. It's not like the Commanders game in the sense that they were one drop from winning the game and had a good game on offense. This is a team that has not been able to get it together on offense. It's clear that Sirianni, Hurts and Patullo need an outside voice to help them. There are no Fangio types on the offensive side the ball that aren't head coaches.

Baun's penalty was bad but understandable. Carter had the jump which was frustrating. Quinyon needs to stop grabbing because refs were looking for it. I don't know if any of them are as dumb as what I saw on offense. Steen needed to hold up getting to the second level although I always feel like Hurts holds the ball too long rather than just rifling the throw. The illegal motion penalty is just sloppiness and a function of getting to the line too late. I do think the Eagles are getting more scrutiny and are facing more calls.

No one is talking about how bad the ST units were and especially how bad of a day Mann had. The Broncos punter had no problem pinning the Eagles behind the 20. I think Mann had three punts go for touchbacks and one punt that he shanked.

Defense for most part are getting personal foul penalties for dumb things. Not as much this fam as i thought baun you can call that in almost any game. Heck there was a far worse one in the bills/pats game that they didn’t call. I get the call but really that happens a lot more often and it’s not called. Imo previous games they’ve had some really bad personal foul penalties.

Offense is more just dumb ones. Pretty consistent week to week. that's stuff that not physical stuff that should and can be fixed. But really feels like sirianni who had these guys laser focused after week 5 last year just doesn’t have that with this roster.

I think Mann has had a good year. Yesterday was definitely not his best day. but there’s time where either our gunners arent doing a good enough job or he is really out kicking the coverage. It’s why some of these punts teams are getting decent returns.

9 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Bo Wulf's theory on the Eagles offensive struggles is that Jalen Hurts has a lot more say in the scheme and game plan than people want to admit. He said it was pretty telling that everyone over the past couple weeks when asked what's wrong with the offense have defended the coaching but were more evasive when answering questions about Hurts. And EJ Smith brought up the point that Hurts said in the offseason "The offense is going to look how Jalen Hurts wants it to look."

And that while Hurts is playing well, the plays that are called are dictated by what Hurts wants to run and that's what is frustrating the players because there is some disagreement there on how to best be effective.

But even if that were true, my counter to that would be: how hard is it to run a couple Fing naked bootlegs per game? They're simple plays. You roll out, have a clean view of the field, and then can either take off or throw to an open man. That should be something Jalen Hurts would be foaming at the mouth to run. So why does this offense have none of that? I find it very hard to believe that there are very simple plays every other team can run that "Jalen Hurts is not comfortable running." I'm not talking about back shoulder timing routes 30 yards down field here. I'm talking high school level stuff that is about as primitive as it gets.

So Hurts wants to run a pedestrian offense from high school?

Btw. I think the Broncos are a Superbowl contender. They could be 5-0 right now, as discussed on broadcast. They will keep improving this year and could outclass Chiefs in that division. They have a very good defense and great offensive line and good coaching. And nice young players on offense in Dobbin and Nix that are much improved. Mixed in with solid vets like Sutton. They are for real!

13 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I’m probably in the minority, but I don’t think the offense would be that much better if Moore were still here instead of Patullo.

It would probably be a tad better but I think the main issue is the O-Line. Losing Bechton, Dickerson clearly hurt, Lane constantly missing time… we need to get the OL healthy.

Average OL = subpar run game = average at best version of Hurts

Get a better OG option, get Dickerson healthy. There has to be someone available on one of these dreadful teams that would be a better option than what they have.

Bring in an experienced OC voice to help this staff break tendencies and get a coherent plan together for in game adjustments to what they are seeing from the defense.

Look, this is a talented team but the combo of poor OL health and an inexperienced OC (play design, play calling, attention to detail) are the obvious weaknesses. Both can be fixed. Which is why I am low key happy they lost because it forces them to look in mirror. Scraping out another win would have only delayed ripping off the band aid

Well, haven't had this feeling in over a year - I dismissed the Washington loss last December since they were dominating before Jalen was knocked out. This was concerning all over the place, but especially on offense. I'll try not to overreact, but the issues we've seen all year showed up again yesterday and finally bit us.

OFFENSE

• Overall, our issue is plainly that we went from a top 2 rushing team to a bottom 5 rushing team, and Steen really hasn't been the issue. The refusal to use the QB run game was an issue the 1st four weeks, but we brought back some RPO yesterday. But then we somehow called one run for SB in the 2nd half despite having a 2 score lead. Here's how I break down the issues, but the inability to run it AT ALL is why we are seeing so much 2 high zone -- last year we'd punish guys on the ground when they tried it. This year, they fake pressure, back out into 2 high, and the passing game has no answer. It's almost like we should just run into the pressure looks and bet on them backing out.

  • The left side of the offensive line, mainly Dickerson/Toth, is much worse this year

  • Barkley isn't quite as dynamic - hear me out. Dillon is over 5 YPA on 11 carries this season - small sample size, but teams back off when they don't see SB as well

  • The play calling remains too predictable when in pistol and under center. And stop with the condensed looks and multi TE sets. SB kills it when he has space

  • Since we can't run it as well to eat clock, and teams can sit in zone, you can simulate pressure all day to throw off Hurts

• Hurts -- overall, he played reasonably well in this game, but asking him to throw 38 times is an issue. He had 280 and 2 TDs, and we missed three big plays that would have put him near 400 yards. The pass to Dotson was a perfect throw -- Jahan has to get his feet down there. The missed dagger to AJ was due to the WR deciding to stop running (more on that below). And the 4th down to Smitty came back on an awfully tick tack 2 men moving penalty. Jalen struggles with zone, but this isn't new information. KP needs to come up with better answers for him against zone coverage. On my list of concerns, Jalen's way down the list

• AJ -- look man, you can't talk smack about not being utilized and then jog/quit on a route like that. But he's not alone -- seems like all the WRs and TEs are out there jogging at times

  • The lack of effort from pass catchers is the most troubling sign to me -- 2023 fell apart when players on D clearly lost confidence in the coaching and started mailing it in. I started to see that from the skill guys on offense yesterday. Fair or not, all trust in KP is gone. They gotta figure this out fast or KP will lose the players and it will spiral

  • Smitty seems to be the one guy out there going full effort all the time

• The offensive line might have played its best game yesterday -- Jalen had time, just no one to throw to. Hard to get into a run blocking rhythm if you don't call any runs. Toth was serviceable out there, and Granson should play over Grant for blocking alone. Mailata has some bad moments, however -- regrow the beard

  DEFENSE

  • I really can't blame them, as team just seemed gassed after playing a bunch of snaps the last 2 weeks. Offense couldn't hold the ball again, and it finally caught up to them. Still, we should win games when we hold the opponent to 21 points

  • The run defense is becoming a real problem, and I think Carter being limited and Campbell not being as stout a run defender as Dean is showing up. Davis had his worst game of the year (would still have been a good game for him in 2024). Not sure how much was exhaustion, but we can't keep getting gashed like that

  • Ojulari couldn't get on the field? Might have been our best edge yesterday, and played the 2nd most snaps at edge.

  • Q got worked a little by Sutton, but he generally had good coverage. Sometimes WRs just make great plays

  • Ringo was fine as best I could tell - should start again this week

    OVERALL

  • This is a sloppy, undisciplined team. That falls on the head coach. The penalties, lack of effort, lackadaisical operation - that's just effort. Nick is having a real issue right now getting these guys to hustle and focus.

    • Thursday night will tell us everything we need to know -- if they come out flat, sloppy and uninspired, then it's 2023 all over again potentially. If they come out and curb stomp an inferior opponent, then we're in business

  • I don't get the bullet point formatting on here at all...

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

You are crazy

25 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The best example of Brucey yet

7 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

So Hurts wants to run a pedestrian offense from high school?

If Bo's theory is right, and I'm not sure that it is, I have no idea what specifically Hurts likes about this scheme so much that he's so comfortable running. Every throw is tightly contested. That's typically a QB's worst nightmare.

Said this before the defense is going to eventually wear out. They aren’t going to be nearly as effective playing 70+ snaps every week. Offense isn’t sustaining drives for halves at a time and the defense has to continuously either create a turnover or find a way to get off the field. Their complimentary football isn’t there. At this rate fangio and the defense is not going to just save the eagles if they continue on this pace

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Well, haven't had this feeling in over a year - I dismissed the Washington loss last December since they were dominating before Jalen was knocked out. This was concerning all over the place, but especially on offense. I'll try not to overreact, but the issues we've seen all year showed up again yesterday and finally bit us.

OFFENSE

• Overall, our issue is plainly that we went from a top 2 rushing team to a bottom 5 rushing team, and Steen really hasn't been the issue. The refusal to use the QB run game was an issue the 1st four weeks, but we brought back some RPO yesterday. But then we somehow called one run for SB in the 2nd half despite having a 2 score lead. Here's how I break down the issues, but the inability to run it AT ALL is why we are seeing so much 2 high zone -- last year we'd punish guys on the ground when they tried it. This year, they fake pressure, back out into 2 high, and the passing game has no answer. It's almost like we should just run into the pressure looks and bet on them backing out.

  • The left side of the offensive line, mainly Dickerson/Toth, is much worse this year

  • Barkley isn't quite as dynamic - hear me out. Dillon is over 5 YPA on 11 carries this season - small sample size, but teams back off when they don't see SB as well

  • The play calling remains too predictable when in pistol and under center. And stop with the condensed looks and multi TE sets. SB kills it when he has space

  • Since we can't run it as well to eat clock, and teams can sit in zone, you can simulate pressure all day to throw off Hurts

• Hurts -- overall, he played reasonably well in this game, but asking him to throw 38 times is an issue. He had 280 and 2 TDs, and we missed three big plays that would have put him near 400 yards. The pass to Dotson was a perfect throw -- Jahan has to get his feet down there. The missed dagger to AJ was due to the WR deciding to stop running (more on that below). And the 4th down to Smitty came back on an awfully tick tack 2 men moving penalty. Jalen struggles with zone, but this isn't new information. KP needs to come up with better answers for him against zone coverage. On my list of concerns, Jalen's way down the list

• AJ -- look man, you can't talk smack about not being utilized and then jog/quit on a route like that. But he's not alone -- seems like all the WRs and TEs are out there jogging at times

  • The lack of effort from pass catchers is the most troubling sign to me -- 2023 fell apart when players on D clearly lost confidence in the coaching and started mailing it in. I started to see that from the skill guys on offense yesterday. Fair or not, all trust in KP is gone. They gotta figure this out fast or KP will lose the players and it will spiral

  • Smitty seems to be the one guy out there going full effort all the time

• The offensive line might have played its best game yesterday -- Jalen had time, just no one to throw to. Hard to get into a run blocking rhythm if you don't call any runs. Toth was serviceable out there, and Granson should play over Grant for blocking alone. Mailata has some bad moments, however -- regrow the beard

  DEFENSE

  • I really can't blame them, as team just seemed gassed after playing a bunch of snaps the last 2 weeks. Offense couldn't hold the ball again, and it finally caught up to them. Still, we should win games when we hold the opponent to 21 points

  • The run defense is becoming a real problem, and I think Carter being limited and Campbell not being as stout a run defender as Dean is showing up. Davis had his worst game of the year (would still have been a good game for him in 2024). Not sure how much was exhaustion, but we can't keep getting gashed like that

  • Ojulari couldn't get on the field? Might have been our best edge yesterday, and played the 2nd most snaps at edge.

  • Q got worked a little by Sutton, but he generally had good coverage. Sometimes WRs just make great plays

  • Ringo was fine as best I could tell - should start again this week

    OVERALL

  • This is a sloppy, undisciplined team. That falls on the head coach. The penalties, lack of effort, lackadaisical operation - that's just effort. Nick is having a real issue right now getting these guys to hustle and focus.

    • Thursday night will tell us everything we need to know -- if they come out flat, sloppy and uninspired, then it's 2023 all over again potentially. If they come out and curb stomp an inferior opponent, then we're in business

  • I don't get the bullet point formatting on here at all...

Agreed with mostly everything. We seem to get PTSD from events of 2023. This roster is much more talented. Especially on defense. Which gives me hope. They had too many things to clean up in 2023, including talent. In addition, offense and defense have been dominant at times, just not consistent.

Other problem here is we have too many guys playing hurt. If somehow they get healthy this will all look better. Last year we survived Goedert, Brown and Smith on offense and never looked like ouselves til they got healthy. Hopefully the same thing happens this year with the known injured guys. That's probably one of their key issues overall. It's health and less depth to overcome that. Howie has screwed up the team depth with shortsightedness in bad trades or lack of resignings. Now has to self correct. And quick!!

17 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't think Denver had a perfect game. They played well on the defensive line. The defense was gassed and gave up plays they wouldn't normally give up but the lack of pass rush with 4 down is an issue. You raise a good point about Singleton. It's not like the Commanders game in the sense that they were one drop from winning the game and had a good game on offense. This is a team that has not been able to get it together on offense. It's clear that Sirianni, Hurts and Patullo need an outside voice to help them. There are no Fangio types on the offensive side the ball that aren't head coaches.

Baun's penalty was bad but understandable. Carter had the jump which was frustrating. Quinyon needs to stop grabbing because refs were looking for it. I don't know if any of them are as dumb as what I saw on offense. Steen needed to hold up getting to the second level although I always feel like Hurts holds the ball too long rather than just rifling the throw. The illegal motion penalty is just sloppiness and a function of getting to the line too late. I do think the Eagles are getting more scrutiny and are facing more calls.

No one is talking about how bad the ST units were and especially how bad of a day Mann had. The Broncos punter had no problem pinning the Eagles behind the 20. I think Mann had three punts go for touchbacks and one punt that he shanked.

Someone teach Dotson not to fair catch punts at the 11...

7 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

1. Barkley isn't quite as dynamic - hear me out. Dillon is over 5 YPA on 11 carries this season - small sample size, but teams back off when they don't see SB as well

I think Saquon is every bit as dynamic, he's just not getting a chance to show it. You just said it yourself, when teams see Dillon they back off. Saquon is seeing 8 man fronts. Add piss poor OL blocking to an 8 man front and it's TFL, no gain or 2 yards. We saw Saquon on the wheel route show that he is every bit as dynamic as he was last year.

1 minute ago, Sack that QB said:

If Bo's theory is right, and I'm not sure that it is, I have no idea what specifically Hurts likes about this scheme so much that he's so comfortable running. Every throw is tightly contested. That's typically a QB's worst nightmare.

It makes sense but it also doesn't make sense

He said it himself that the offense is what he wants it to be and with his accomplishments it's understandable that they gave their franchise QB more control over the offense

What's weird is this means he's basically limiting himself because of how bad the design and playcalling is. He's got weapons to use that many QBs would kill to have

18 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Bo Wulf's theory on the Eagles offensive struggles is that Jalen Hurts has a lot more say in the scheme and game plan than people want to admit. He said it was pretty telling that everyone over the past couple weeks when asked what's wrong with the offense have defended the coaching but were more evasive when answering questions about Hurts. And EJ Smith brought up the point that Hurts said in the offseason "The offense is going to look how Jalen Hurts wants it to look."

And that while Hurts is playing well, the plays that are called are dictated by what Hurts wants to run and that's what is frustrating the players because there is some disagreement there on how to best be effective.

But even if that were true, my counter to that would be: how hard is it to run a couple Fing naked bootlegs per game? They're simple plays. You roll out, have a clean view of the field, and then can either take off or throw to an open man. That should be something Jalen Hurts would be foaming at the mouth to run. So why does this offense have none of that? I find it very hard to believe that there are very simple plays every other team can run that "Jalen Hurts is not comfortable running." I'm not talking about back shoulder timing routes 30 yards down field here. I'm talking high school level stuff that is about as primitive as it gets.

And to fly in the face of Bo's analysis is that when given time pre-snap, Hurts has performed well.

The issues are first and foremost, sloppiness across the board. And this IS MOST IMPORTANT because even with issue number 2 we still would have won easily without all the self defeating stupid, sloppy plays. We can't control the refs but you can control your actions that lead to flags. And you can control procedural errors and you can control overrunning plays and poor tackling, by way of example only, because I thought mostly they tackled well yesterday.

The second issue is when they see solid pass contain rushes mixed with zone. And this is on the line, Hurts and the OC.

12 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Bo Wulf's theory on the Eagles offensive struggles is that Jalen Hurts has a lot more say in the scheme and game plan than people want to admit. He said it was pretty telling that everyone over the past couple weeks when asked what's wrong with the offense have defended the coaching but were more evasive when answering questions about Hurts. And EJ Smith brought up the point that Hurts said in the offseason "The offense is going to look how Jalen Hurts wants it to look."

And that while Hurts is playing well, the plays that are called are dictated by what Hurts wants to run and that's what is frustrating the players because there is some disagreement there on how to best be effective.

But even if that were true, my counter to that would be: how hard is it to run a couple Fing naked bootlegs per game? They're simple plays. You roll out, have a clean view of the field, and then can either take off or throw to an open man. That should be something Jalen Hurts would be foaming at the mouth to run. So why does this offense have none of that? I find it very hard to believe that there are very simple plays every other team can run that "Jalen Hurts is not comfortable running." I'm not talking about back shoulder timing routes 30 yards down field here. I'm talking high school level stuff that is about as primitive as it gets.

How about incorporating WRs in a run game. I agree that some of this is what Hurts wants to run but some of it is a lack of design by the coaches.

Just now, vikas83 said:

Someone teach Dotson not to fair catch punts at the 11...

I think he was probably saving them getting downed inside the 10. It would be nice to see him try to return a punt more often.

Offense needs to get SB involved in the passing game more and make sure he gets the ball in his hands more. Same with Goedert. Although been better lately. Every time they get in the open field good things happen. More RPO's as well, along with a few gadget plays. Need more deception. And imagination. I do like when they went into hurry up. DO IT MORE!! This team is not gonna win with brute strength this year and plow teams with a simple running game. Need more finesse. Also, opposing defense knows what's coming way too often.

1 hour ago, Vileborg said:

This is the curse of a CEO head coach. You don't have a locked in coordinator. I appreciate what Sirianni does but we'll always have a rotating door as long as he's head coach.

You think Fangio is headed out the revolving door?

If Patullo doesn't develop then Howie and Nick need to look for an Offensive equivalent of Fangio. Not everyone is cut out to be a Head Coach, and many seasoned Offensive Coordinator candidates have (like Fangio) dipped their toes into the Head Coaching arena. and found that they are not a good match for the tasks associated with that higher level position..