Just now, Sack that QB said:

You're straw manning yourself. I never said it wasn't a bad hire. I said that it was a hire that was unavoidable because Lurie was not going to tell a SB winning coach that he couldn't hire the OC of his choice. If that's the case then just Fing fire Nick Sirianni. I mean seriously. If you trust your head coach who just won you a SB so little that you don't even let him pick his OC, then you might as well fire him. Not to mention it's a common misconception that Brian Johnson was Sirianni's choice in 2023. I don't believe that to be the case. Patullo is Sirianni's guy, not Brian Johnson. I think Howie and Lurie were as excited about Brian Johnson as much as anyone. It was reported by several people that Brian Johnson was beloved in that building. So it's not like every coordinator that Lurie and Howie sign off on is a great choice either.

And you are not thinking nuanced enough with your logic. Your logic is 2024 offense was good, the coordinator changed, now it's not good. Therefore, that must mean Patullo is the problem. Here's the flaw in your logic.

For one, the 2024 offense was not good. The running game was great. The passing offense was mediocre by every metric. They were middle of the pack in DVOA and middle of the pack in EPA per play. Those metrics account for style of play, so the Eagles being a run heavy team would not have impacted those stats. When they did throw it, they were not great doing it. We talked about the passing game being disappointing every week leading up to the playoffs. It was one of the bigger talking points.

Go back to 2024 and give Kellen Moore a battered offensive line where no one looks healthy. Give him a Barkley coming off a career high in touches. Then see what you get. Kellen Moore is better than Patullo, so I still think things would be better off, but again, you said Patullo is the main problem with this team. He's not. Sirianni is a bigger problem, he's the head coach. He's responsible for everything that goes on. And he hired Patullo if you want to factor that in. And that's just to start.

LMAO, you are literally making excuses for and trying to defend a guy calling plays who gave our star RB one carry in the 2nd half of a game they were winning by multiple TD's. Furthermore watch the games and use some common sense. The play calling, play designs, etc are as vanilla, predictable and pathetic as humanly possibly. Just because you make really long posts defending your position and acting smart because your opinions are so "nuanced" doesn't make it right. If this is the hill you want to die on though by defending this hire and moron by all means I will keep giving you the rope to hang yourself with.

14 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

We were never going to be able to pay Williams we all knew that

First, Howie should have signed him during offseason, like Jurgens. Or during the season even. Or during the pre- free agent period like Baun. People were too caught up in we have to sign too many guys in the next year or 2 and abandoned a Superbowl repeat season today. Williams at even $26M will probably be worth it if Carter gets $35M or so. I'd still sign him, just so we can repeat this year. New England overpaid once Carolina was involved in negotiations. Probably could have gotten him for $20M or so, if Howie knew when and where to pull the trigger. I'm blaming him on that one.

We have the worst offense in the league with AJ Brown, Saquon Barkley, Devonta Smith, and Jalen Hurts in their prime lmao.

23 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Short sighted over reactions are the opposite of success

Not shortsighted. Or overreacting. Been wanting vets back there all season. Team is too young and undisciplined. Need more balance. like with Graham, Sweat and Slay. And maybe they are being cheap. Quite frankly...

5 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

In the entire NFL family both active and retired I doubt he was one only one as well.

100% but doesn't suit that narrative/excuse that some are trying to push for a hire that was questionable at best at the time, and has turned out to be an unmitigated disaster in hindsight. Also before people come in blabbing out "nuance" and pointing out that there are several other problems with this team I agree that Patullo is far from the only problem. However, he is easily the biggest problem and all it takes is watching the games and using a modicum of common sense to realize that. Nevermind the fact that you have multiple former NFL players saying for weeks that the offense and play calling is the most predictable and vanilla in the league. Hell, their own HOF RT said the same thing in a nicer way after last night's game. Good coaches actually get more out of their talent, myself and others aren't even asking for that but this moron is getting less.

Just now, T-1000 said:

Even IF that is the case, that doesn't justify hiring someone without NFL play calling experience who is too closely in line with Nick. We have seen that story before and it didn't go well. They were just coming off of hiring from outside the organization with a guy with NFL play calling experiences and his own ideas. We all saw how that went and it resulted in a SB win and offensive explosion in the NFCCG and SB. This 'but but but it was late in the off-season and there was nobody to hire" narrative to try to justify a horrible hire is a pathetically bad excuse and a really weird hill to die on. The moron gave Saquon FN Barkley ONE carry in the 2nd half of a game that the team was winning by multiple TD's.

It's happened the literal last three times we've been to a Super Bowl. Do you honestly think the FO is so dumb that they wouldn't step in and stop it when it happens 3 straight times if there isn't some reason why it makes it difficult to find a hire? Again, it's late in the cycle, and many of the candidates people would actually want are long gone. This happens because your coordinator gets plucked late while others get started on finding one early.

Also that's wrong about Johnson, technically he was too closely in line with Jalen, which is a big part of where the problems came, and where the coddling issues started.

Since you have all the answers, what's a tenable hire you have in mind? Because unless you're going to go out on a limb and say something like Doug Pederson (Welcome back Press Taylor!), you may have some trouble, barring you being one of the few that had in mind the same kind of idea I did.

Frank Reich wasn't and isn't an option. He said after the Panthers fired him, his journey in the NFL was over. He reportedly turned down NFL assistant opportunities. He's only doing the Stanford thing for one year because of Andrew Luck.

That doesn't excuse the internal hire of Patullo. I think they should and could have done a better search.

2 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

LMAO, you are literally making excuses for and trying to defend a guy calling plays who gave our star RB one carry in the 2nd half of a game they were winning by multiple TD's. Furthermore watch the games and use some common sense. The play calling, play designs, etc are as vanilla, predictable and pathetic as humanly possibly. Just because you make really long posts defending your position and acting smart because your opinions are so "nuanced" doesn't make it right. If this is the hill you want to die on though by defending this hire and moron by all means I will keep giving you the rope to hang yourself with.

Sirianni is the head coach. All of this is his responsibility. If the offense is too vanilla, he needs to make it not vanilla. He has final say over everything the team does. You need to understand this. Sirianni is watching the same tape and plays we're all seeing. He sees how bad the play design is. So why isn't he making sure it's changed? You're so close to getting it. They look like a poorly coached team right now on all fronts. Offense is predictable. Defense makes mistakes every week and gets stupid penalties. They don't utilize the guys they should on both sides of the ball. The special teamers can't field kicks anymore.

Who is most responsible for all of that?

This is like if a parent allowed their oldest child to watch their youngest child after school everyday, the oldest child was doing a terrible job keeping the youngest child safe. Allowing them to play with knives, allowing them to eat junk all day, etc. Then the parent gets home, sees everything that's going on via the house cameras and decides to do nothing to change it, and blaming the oldest child not the parent. Sirianni is the parent of the Eagles house, and Patullo is the eldest child. This is Sirianni's team. Sick of him getting a pass because people like him. He's been Fing terrible this season and it's ok to say it.

1 minute ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

It's happened the literal last three times we've been to a Super Bowl. Do you honestly think the FO is so dumb that they wouldn't step in and stop it when it happens 3 straight times if there isn't some reason why it makes it difficult to find a hire? Again, it's late in the cycle, and many of the candidates people would actually want are long gone. This happens because your coordinator gets plucked late while others get started on finding one early.

Also that's wrong about Johnson, technically he was too closely in line with Jalen, which is a big part of where the problems came, and where the coddling issues started.

Since you have all the answers, what's a tenable hire you have in mind? Because unless you're going to go out on a limb and say something like Doug Pederson (Welcome back Press Taylor!), you may have some trouble, barring you being one of the few that had in mind the same kind of idea I did.

More excuses, keep making a full out of yourself for defending a hire that was questionable at the time and a disaster in hindsight. I mean, there couldn't possibly have been someone available that late who would be smart enough to give the team's star RB more than ONE carry during the 2nd half of a game where they were winning by multiple scores. As for your last comment, that is laughable desperation on your part. A. I already provided one name and you just brushed it off by making a massive assumption about why he wasn't even considered and B. It's not my job to identify NFL coaching talent but it sure as hell is the job of Howie and Lurie to do so, so perhaps they should have been better at their jobs. Far be it from me to point out the obvious though and call them out for a massive mistake.

11 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

You're straw manning yourself. I never said it wasn't a bad hire. I said that it was a hire that was unavoidable because Lurie was not going to tell a SB winning coach that he couldn't hire the OC of his choice. If that's the case then just Fing fire Nick Sirianni. I mean seriously. If you trust your head coach who just won you a SB so little that you don't even let him pick his OC, then you might as well fire him. Not to mention it's a common misconception that Brian Johnson was Sirianni's choice in 2023. I don't believe that to be the case. Patullo is Sirianni's guy, not Brian Johnson. I think Howie and Lurie were as excited about Brian Johnson as much as anyone. It was reported by several people that Brian Johnson was beloved in that building. So it's not like every coordinator that Lurie and Howie sign off on is a great choice either.

And you are not thinking nuanced enough with your logic. Your logic is 2024 offense was good, the coordinator changed, now it's not good. Therefore, that must mean Patullo is the problem. Here's the flaw in your logic.

For one, the 2024 offense was not good. The running game was great. The passing offense was mediocre by every metric. They were middle of the pack in DVOA and middle of the pack in EPA per play. Those metrics account for style of play, so the Eagles being a run heavy team would not have impacted those stats. When they did throw it, they were not great doing it. We talked about the passing game being disappointing every week leading up to the playoffs. It was one of the bigger talking points.

Go back to 2024 and give Kellen Moore a battered offensive line where no one looks healthy. Give him a Barkley coming off a career high in touches. Then see what you get. Kellen Moore is better than Patullo, so I still think things would be better off, but again, you said Patullo is the main problem with this team. He's not. Sirianni is a bigger problem, he's the head coach. He's responsible for everything that goes on. And he hired Patullo if you want to factor that in. And that's just to start.

People put in a lot of effort to put any lasting criticism on Hurts and how he seems to need every single thing to be neatly in place on the team to flourish. Maybe we should talk more about Howie removing pieces from the defense for an offense that literally doesn't contribute, just to ensure the comfort of the QB, who now doesn't have an elite defense to protect him and doesn't have an OC that can build something to compensate for his weaknesses as a player.

So many people constantly talked in 2024 about 'oh we don't throw it as much because we don't need to'. We don't throw it as much because with Hurts' skillset, that's the best way for us to win football games. Nothing is wrong with that...

Until it stops working altogether.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Frank Reich wasn't and isn't an option. He said after the Panthers fired him, his journey in the NFL was over. He reportedly turned down NFL assistant opportunities. He's only doing the Stanford thing for one year because of Andrew Luck.

That doesn't excuse the internal hire of Patullo. I think they should and could have done a better search.

Yep, this. I'm not sure why that is so hard for people to admit and they feel the need to die on the hill of making excuses for this disaster of a hire that was questionable at best even at the time it was made. No "nuance" and long winded posts needed for this one.

3 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Yep, this. I'm not sure why that is so hard for people to admit and they feel the need to die on the hill of making excuses for this disaster of a hire that was questionable at best even at the time it was made. No "nuance" and long winded posts needed for this one.

Yeah I don’t understand. I think Siriani’s winning percentage clouds the huge flaws he’s showed in hiring assistant coaches and being able to right the ship after it has a hole in it.

There’s hundreds of options in the NFL/College ranks and we keep choosing really bad coordinators and then use the wins a cushion for them to continue to be awful at their job.

19 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm not excusing the Patullo hire. I am also not sure that Frank Reich is the right guy to bring in either. He's an older coach and never was the OC for a QB with Hurts' unique skill set. He'd likely take a full year to learn how to best utilize Hurts as the QB. He's always had a gunslinger QB playing for him, for good or for bad. And hasn't had a guy to run RO plays, which are very different from the RPOs that they ran with Foles in the Super Bowl.

All I did was point out that NFL teams can block teams from interviewing their assistant coaches for an OC position. So, that means the pool of options is limited to NCAA coaches or coaches who aren't currently under contract to other NFL teams. Do with that what you will.

I would just like to say, maybe he isn’t great for Jalen hurts offense. Wont ever know now anyway. But it’s not like he hasn’t had success with different quarterbacks or made adjustments to the QBs he has been given.

In 2017 he had success with Carson Wentz and then Nick Foles. then when he went to Indianapolis, he had success with Andrew luck. His second season, Andrew luck retired a week before the season and he was left with Jacoby Brissett and Brian Hoyer. yet he managed to somehow win 7 games with those guys. Can say well it’s only seven games, but he had to change everything he intended to do all off-season for two guys that are backups in this league. And yet somehow managed to win seven games. Then the following year he had an aged and declined Philip rivers. Yet managed to get the most out of him. Then the following year he had Carson wentz again. Won 9 games and even though wentz wasn’t remotely 2017 or even 2019, that’s the most anyone had got out of wentz since leaving Philly and since 2019. His last year it went to crap with Matt Ryan. Who frankly was done in the second half with the falcons the previous season. It’s why they really wanted Watson

Maybe he fails with a Qb like hurts but id trust him more as he had a Qb carousel in Indianapolis and the only year they didn’t look competent was his last year there with a Matt Ryan, who was finished. I’m not going into the Carolina situation, because as you can see, nobody has success in Carolina because their franchise has been a dumpster fire since 2018

15 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Frank Reich wasn't and isn't an option. He said after the Panthers fired him, his journey in the NFL was over. He reportedly turned down NFL assistant opportunities. He's only doing the Stanford thing for one year because of Andrew Luck.

That doesn't excuse the internal hire of Patullo. I think they should and could have done a better search.

Lettuce not forget, especially all of the Hurts apologists, that the ONE key selling point of Patullo was a semblance of stability for Hurts since he has had a new OC every year of his career. This is what many people wanted, because of Hurts.

It always comes down to Hurts.

Why did they not do a better search? Because of Hurts.

Why does the offense suck? Because we need an OC who knows how to dumb things down to his level.

Why do we suck? Because of Hurts.

Not because of Patullo. Or Srir's "bad hire" which is just the next scapegoat- for Jalen Hurts.

And I didn't even want Patullo. I said it at the time and did not like the hire when it was made. But it's not exactly the most egregious hire ever. It's not like Steichen was available, was begging to come back, and the Eagles were like nah we're good, Patullo's our guy. Moore accepted the Saints job late, they decided to promote a guy from within. It happens all the time in the NFL. It hasn't worked out, such is life. To hold their feet to the fire over something so common and understandable to me is directing your ire at the wrong place. I think letting Rodgers go was objectively a bigger mistake. I think not adding a pass rusher in the draft until the 6th round was objectively a bigger mistake and coming into the season with injury prone Nolan Smith and extremely raw and unproven Jalyx Hunt as your two starters at Edge was a bigger mistake.

I don't think things would look that much better if Kellen Moore was still here honestly. Slightly better I'd say, but not drastically. Let alone Frank Reich. People need to let that one go. Frank Reich, who's washed, was saving nothing. An OC alone is not saving this team, there are far too many issues right now.

1 hour ago, Diehardfan said:

Yikes

27 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And I don't think he's the answer for a Hurts led offense.

How come? You are one of the best posters on here. If the only options for Hurts are from the tree of Nick's offensive ineptitude then that's a problem. I just find it hard to believe that even after the SB the only option was a guy on his staff with no experience. Nobody from the innovative trees, nobody else like KM not with a team or in college, just him. If we are being honest Nick picked him because it was easy and because it was from his tree.

4 minutes ago, GoEagles614 said:

Yeah I don’t understand. I think Siriani’s winning percentage clouds the huge flaws he’s showed in hiring assistant coaches and being able to right the ship after it has a hole in it.

There’s hundreds of options in the NFL/College ranks and we keep choosing really bad coordinators and then use the wins a cushion for them to continue to be awful at their job.

Yep. The players do seem to really like and respond to Nick. He brings an attitude that fits with the city and team. As a CEO head coach that works. He needs great coordinators though to take care of the X's and O's not only on defense but on offense as well. Nick needs to be removed from the offense as much as possible and having someone who is tight with him is clearly not a good thing. I realize it worked with Steichen but he is a great coach and play caller (just look at what he has done to resurrect Daniel Jones) and this is now the second time that Nick's internal choice to fill the vacant OC role has been a complete and total disaster. The one time they went outside of the organization and brought in a guy with his own ideas it just so happened to result in a SB and the offense going nuclear in the NFCCG and SB. If people think this is all a coincidence I don't know what to tell them.

Regardless of all of that excusing the hire because it was "too late in the off-season" is quite possibly the laziest and dumbest take anyone can go to. As you said there are hundreds of coaching options out there and I'm pretty sure they could have found one who wasn't joined at the hip with Nick offensively and someone who would be smart enough to give their star RB more than ONE carry in the 2nd half of a game they were winning by two TD's. I'm not sure how or why anyone would try to defend the hire in any way shape or form but to each their own I guess.

20 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Sirianni is the head coach. All of this is his responsibility. If the offense is too vanilla, he needs to make it not vanilla. He has final say over everything the team does. You need to understand this. Sirianni is watching the same tape and plays we're all seeing. He sees how bad the play design is. So why isn't he making sure it's changed? You're so close to getting it. They look like a poorly coached team right now on all fronts. Offense is predictable. Defense makes mistakes every week and gets stupid penalties. They don't utilize the guys they should on both sides of the ball. The special teamers can't field kicks anymore.

Who is most responsible for all of that?

This is like if a parent allowed their oldest child to watch their youngest child after school everyday, the oldest child was doing a terrible job keeping the youngest child safe. Allowing them to play with knives, allowing them to eat junk all day, etc. Then the parent gets home, sees everything that's going on via the house cameras and decides to do nothing to change it, and blaming the oldest child not the parent. Sirianni is the parent of the Eagles house, and Patullo is the eldest child. This is Sirianni's team. Sick of him getting a pass because people like him. He's been Fing terrible this season and it's ok to say it.

That's part of the problem. Nick isn't a great offensive mind. He is a good manager of people.

7 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Lettuce not forget, especially all of the Hurts apologists, that the ONE key selling point of Patullo was a semblance of stability for Hurts since he has had a new OC every year of his career. This is what many people wanted, because of Hurts.

It always comes down to Hurts.

Why did they not do a better search? Because of Hurts.

Why does the offense suck? Because we need an OC who knows how to dumb things down to his level.

Why do we suck? Because of Hurts.

Not because of Patullo. Or Srir's "bad hire" which is just the next scapegoat- for Jalen Hurts.

How good of a QB do you have to be to win last year with that OL, that RB, those WRs, that TE, and a defense that was lights out towards the end? Could McKee have done it? Hurts is a good manager but the list of things he needs to succeed seem very long.

17 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Frank Reich wasn't and isn't an option. He said after the Panthers fired him, his journey in the NFL was over. He reportedly turned down NFL assistant opportunities. He's only doing the Stanford thing for one year because of Andrew Luck.

That doesn't excuse the internal hire of Patullo. I think they should and could have done a better search.

True, kind of think if sirianni asked him to be a consultant that he might give him the same courtesy that he gave luck. Out of the respect they have for one another. Kind of think he’s retiring after this year with Stanford so makes no difference as he’s no longer an option.

That said the bigger issue to me was they knew Kellen Moore was leaving. And weeks leading into the Super Bowl, Berman and ej smith basically knew it was going to be patullo. Eagles really should not just expect a 1st year OC with a SB contending roster to just be a seamless transition it has yet to be and tried 3 different times (groh, Johnson and now patullo)

Just now, Diehardfan said:

That's part of the problem. Nick isn't a great offensive mind. He is a good manager of people.

This season he doesn't even seem great at managing people. He's having a bad year. He preaches fundamentals every week and they've been bad at them. He guys are committing bad undisciplined penalties every week. For a CEO head coach to be valuable, they need to be on point on all those areas or they're useless. It's why I don't typically like CEO head coaches. I want a brilliant offensive mind first and foremost. But I'd be willing to roll with Sirianni as a CEO as long as his team plays hungry, motivated, technically sound, and does all the small things. This season they're doing none of that.

Through 6 Games, the Eagles offense have never had more than 4 scoring drives in a game.

Averaging 3.33 offensive scoring drives per game and will likely be #1 in least amount of giveaways after the week plays out.

ABYSMAL. This offense is worse than when we had Greg Ward and Travis Fulgham were out leading receivers. That season we had 6 games under 305 total offensive yards.

This season we’re 5/6 under 305 yards with a huge outlier of 339 yards in a blowout loss against a bottom 4 team.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

True, kind of think if sirianni asked him to be a consultant that he might give him the same courtesy that he gave luck. Out of the respect they have for one another. Kind of think he’s retiring after this year with Stanford so makes no difference as he’s no longer an option.

That said the bigger issue to me was they knew Kellen Moore was leaving. And weeks leading into the Super Bowl, Berman and ej smith basically knew it was going to be patullo. Eagles really should not just expect a 1st year OC with a SB contending roster to just be a seamless transition it has yet to be and tried 3 different times (groh, Johnson and now patullo)

That's a very good point. It's not like the writing wasn't on the wall weeks before. They had time to plan for him leaving and went with the easy option.

30 minutes ago, GoEagles614 said:

We have the worst offense in the league with AJ Brown, Saquon Barkley, Devonta Smith, and Jalen Hurts in their prime lmao.

Something is just wrong. Maybe the SB hangover is just a real thing.

I get that some guys are injured and Steen is the new RG, but you don't go from the most dominant OL in the league to the worst in the league just because you blocked for a 2,000 yard RB the year prior. It's the most confusing thing ever. They don't work as a unit. They seem confused. They trip over each other. It's like every game is their first time playing together, and that goes for the entire offense. Nothing about this makes sense.