2 minutes ago, jamiller said:

Patriots.

Seriously though, I recall you saying that very early in the season and I was like "meh..." but now I have to say, it does seem like that about the Chiefs.

I like New England, but I don’t think they’re ready yet. I think the playoffs are going to be a little bit much for Maye.

When I look at the AFC you have buffalo, but I don’t think Buffalo’s defense is good enough. They’ll feast on lackluster offenses but when they face good ones they’ll struggle. Now their offense is really good because of Josh Allen. I would argue that the overall roster of the Kansas City Chiefs is better than the Buffalo Bills and better coaching on the side of the chiefs.

The rest of the AFC I think it’s just a tier below. Could those teams beat Kansas City and Buffalo? They could but I wouldn’t bet on it in a playoff situation. I still think it’s gonna come down to Buffalo and Kansas City. And I trust Kansas City‘s coaching staff more than I trust Buffalo.

The Lions losing to the Chiefs reinforcing my thoughts that there really is no dominant team in the NFL as of now. If the Eagles and the coaching staff can pull their head out of their asses and get some dudes healthy, there is no reason they can't repeat.

19 minutes ago, Cliftoma said:

there really is no dominant team in the NFL as of now

Agree.

4 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yea for sure, Steichen and Moore were so doomed in their seasons with Hurts that they both found themselves out of the league and definitely didn't parlay those doomed seasons into head coaching gigs for each of them. These are all very strong points you're making to back up your argument.

Going into the year, Steichen was on the "hot seat" for failing to do anything in Indy because, shockingly, his QB wasn't playing consistently and it was killing their team.

Kellen Moore wasn't beloved when he got here. Again, he was gifted an otherworldly rushing attack. The offense ran through Barkley. The offense did not run through Hurts.

His other coordinators have gotten demoted/fired, which circles back to how his inconsistencies as a player screw a coach. It's constant musical chairs at the position and the same constant struggles when the same constant is under center and people can't figure out why.

7 hours ago, Iggles25 said:

Tirico creamed himself reminding us that KC is back

Not as much as Collingsworth...I just can't listen to that frigg'in guy.

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

What a waste of talent. AI never understood that with his talent, practice wasn't about him it was for his team. He should have been at practice religiously for his team. First to set the example. But his team benefits from his presence and was diminished by his absence or half hearted participation.

3 hours ago, Swoop said:

Going into the year, Steichen was on the "hot seat" for failing to do anything in Indy because, shockingly, his QB wasn't playing consistently and it was killing their team.

Kellen Moore wasn't beloved when he got here. Again, he was gifted an otherworldly rushing attack. The offense ran through Barkley. The offense did not run through Hurts.

His other coordinators have gotten demoted/fired, which circles back to how his inconsistencies as a player screw a coach. It's constant musical chairs at the position and the same constant struggles when the same constant is under center and people can't figure out why.

This is so off base. First the only OC to get demoted/fired since Siri has been here is Brian Johnson unless you want to count Siri demoting himself. Siri is a good coach, maybe even a great coach, we shall see. But he was a crap play caller. In his defense, he was the play caller in the beginning when Hurts was learning the offense. But the offense didn't change when Steichen took over, the play calling just got better. Turns out Steichen is pretty good at it. Steichen's second year, the only year in the past decade that Hurts has had the same play caller in back to back years, Hurts was in the running, seriously in it, for league MVP. Should have won the SB but ce la vie. Brian Johnson may have been a good QB coach, I would hope they wouldn't promote a bad one, and may have been a good OC, but he was a crap play caller. The offense was always vanilla and eventually was exposed. Kellen Moore was brought in because he had a history. Turned out to be a great decision. Fortunately for Kellen Moore, unfortunately for the Eagles and Hurts, his success, the Eagles success earned him a HC job.

The book isn't finished on Patullo. I'm hoping he's just been conservative while he gets is feet under him. But right now he's what we got. But to the lay this on Hurts because he's been the "constant" his short sighted and absurd. Learning a new offense every year is not a "constant". I've been on these boards so long I find myself repeating things over and over. Steve Young and crew were doing their pregame/halftime/postgame from Philadelphia. Young, referring to McNabb, was talking about when he was traded to San Fran and how it took him 3 years before he felt he really knew the offense. You might say "Bill Walsh and complex west coast offense". But think all offenses have become that complex, except Siri's, Johnsons, and Patullo's which is ultra vanilla.

3 hours ago, Swoop said:

Going into the year, Steichen was on the "hot seat" for failing to do anything in Indy because, shockingly, his QB wasn't playing consistently and it was killing their team.

Kellen Moore wasn't beloved when he got here. Again, he was gifted an otherworldly rushing attack. The offense ran through Barkley. The offense did not run through Hurts.

His other coordinators have gotten demoted/fired, which circles back to how his inconsistencies as a player screw a coach. It's constant musical chairs at the position and the same constant struggles when the same constant is under center and people can't figure out why.

This is so off base. First the only OC to get demoted/fired since Siri has been here is Brian Johnson unless you want to count Siri demoting himself. Siri is a good coach, maybe even a great coach, we shall see. But he was a crap play caller. In his defense, he was the play caller in the beginning when Hurts was learning the offense. But the offense didn't change when Steichen took over, the play calling just got better. Turns out Steichen is pretty good at it. Steichen's second year, the only year in the past decade that Hurts has had the same play caller in back to back years, Hurts was in the running, seriously in it, for league MVP. Should won the SB but ce la vie. Brian Johnson may have been a good QB coach, I would hope they wouldn't promote a bad one, and may have been a good OC, but he was a crap play caller. The offense was always vanilla and eventually was exposed. Kellen Moore was brought in because he had a history. Turned out to be a great decision. Fortunately for Kellen Moore, unfortunately for the Eagles and Hurts, his success, the Eagles success earned him a HC job.

The book isn't finished on Patullo. I'm hoping he's just been conservative while he gets is feet under him. Right now he's what we got. But to the lay this on Hurts because he's been the "constant" is short sighted and absurd. Learning a new offense every year is not a "constant". I've been on these boards so long I find myself repeating things over and over. Steve Young and crew were doing their pregame/halftime/postgame from Philadelphia. Young, referring to McNabb, was talking about when he was traded to San Fran and how it took him 3 years before he felt he really knew the offense. You might say "Bill Walsh and complex west coast offense". But I think all offenses have become that complex, except Siri's, Johnsons, and Patullo's which is ultra vanilla.

17 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

This is so off base. First the only OC to get demoted/fired since Siri has been here is Brian Johnson unless you want to count Siri demoting himself. Siri is a good coach, maybe even a great coach, we shall see. But he was a crap play caller. In his defense, he was the play caller in the beginning when Hurts was learning the offense. But the offense didn't change when Steichen took over, the play calling just got better. Turns out Steichen is pretty good at it. Steichen's second year, the only year in the past decade that Hurts has had the same play caller in back to back years, Hurts was in the running, seriously in it, for league MVP. Should have won the SB but ce la vie. Brian Johnson may have been a good QB coach, I would hope they wouldn't promote a bad one, and may have been a good OC, but he was a crap play caller. The offense was always vanilla and eventually was exposed. Kellen Moore was brought in because he had a history. Turned out to be a great decision. Fortunately for Kellen Moore, unfortunately for the Eagles and Hurts, his success, the Eagles success earned him a HC job.

The book isn't finished on Patullo. I'm hoping he's just been conservative while he gets is feet under him. But right now he's what we got. But to the lay this on Hurts because he's been the "constant" his short sighted and absurd. Learning a new offense every year is not a "constant". I've been on these boards so long I find myself repeating things over and over. Steve Young and crew were doing their pregame/halftime/postgame from Philadelphia. Young, referring to McNabb, was talking about when he was traded to San Fran and how it took him 3 years before he felt he really knew the offense. You might say "Bill Walsh and complex west coast offense". But think all offenses have become that complex, except Siri's, Johnsons, and Patullo's which is ultra vanilla.

And you know why those offenses are all vanilla??? This is what you refuse to hear. It's because of Hurts. He makes every OC look bad.

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

And you know why those offenses are all vanilla??? This is what you refuse to hear. It's because of Hurts. He makes every OC look bad.

Bingo.

This also circles back to my original post that started all of this saying that it's nice that some on the board are coming around on his shortcomings.

Though apparently no one like that exists, I've been told.

Every single year-

"Why doesn't Smith run this? Why doesn't Brown run that? Why don't we try x,y,z?"

"The offense looks how I, Jalen Hurts, wants it to look''

"I just can't figure it out."

16 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

And you know why those offenses are all vanilla??? This is what you refuse to hear. It's because of Hurts. He makes every OC look bad.

BS.. He made Steichen look so bad as an MVP candidate. Teams don't win as much as they have with Hurts despite the QB. Sorry, but you obviously refuse to see past your hate.

18 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

And you know why those offenses are all vanilla??? This is what you refuse to hear. It's because of Hurts. He makes every OC look bad.

Moore and Steichen both got HC jobs immediately after being Hurts' OC

4 hours ago, Swoop said:

Going into the year, Steichen was on the "hot seat" for failing to do anything in Indy because, shockingly, his QB wasn't playing consistently and it was killing their team.

Which has literally nothing to do with Hurts who you tried to claim doomed Steichen. You're not very good at this, try to pick one argument and stick to it instead of being all over the place like this.

45 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

This is so off base. First the only OC to get demoted/fired since Siri has been here is Brian Johnson unless you want to count Siri demoting himself

The poor guy is really struggling to form a coherent thought.

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Which has literally nothing to do with Hurts who you tried to claim doomed Steichen. You're not very good at this, try to pick one argument and stick to it instead of being all over the place like this.

It goes back to what I originally stated, inconsistent QB play will screw a coach even if they're good. We have more instances of Hurts causing a carousel than succeeding, this is why we have constant OC changes. Try to remember what's actually been said 👍

8 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Terrible enough that the two competent ones got promotions and paid handsomely for it. Excellent point, sir.

Hear me out just for a second.

Are you really sure that the ones that were hired immediately are only competent? Here's what my view of competent is:

If someone gives you a prototype, you can produce average offense. That is, if someone gave you someone like Patrick Mahomes, or Burrow, and you got a good OL, you can produce an average offense.

I actually think that's simply not good enough in Philadelphia's case. The reason why is because we don't have an NFL prototype. A lot of traditional NFL concepts don't work here, because Hurts has a combination of a few things:

• His smaller stature for QBs means he has trouble since our OL is usually composed of mammoths, which is why he has abnormally low numbers over the short middle.

• He seems to dislike playing passing wise from under center and doing traditional drops.

• His arm strength isn't the greatest, which amplifies the problems above.

• He's not the best with throwing timing to smaller windows, or at the very least, isn't super confident in it.

These group of weaknesses means that if you are merely competent, you might actually struggle, because you can't really use the kind of blueprints that people before you used for this kind of problem. And I think that's kind of the key.

Sometimes you look at Jalen when he's successful in years that aren't 2022 (because he threw timing that year) and it just looks like things are difficult through the air. A lot of the really easy stuff doesn't get used. You watch other QBs have a lot of their throws picking apart the defense short by using ball placement or rifling the ball before defenders can close, and we just do not do that a lot. We tend to use the run as replacement for the short passing game, or make uncontested throws behind the line of scrimmage.

So Jalen makes a lot of his money on throws deeper down the field, hence why people tend to say 'deep ball' if you ask what his strengths as a thrower are.

My point is, I think some people here incorrectly view the people here who got promoted as just competent, but I think in reality, they're pretty good. What we probably need is an offensive Fangio. Not for age, or the avoidance of being hired, but to have the balls to tell Howie and the rest of the FO that they refuse to stick with what Jalen is comfortable with and demand more from him as a player schematically. Because the best players in NFL history are ones that were pushed to grow by coaches who thought they could do more than they initially realized, or players who demanded growth from themselves for the same reasons.

You can name on one hand all of the NFL offenses that have been consistently good to start the season, and the Eagles have already beaten a couple of them.

I hope all you guys were entertained by the Lions double reverse flea flicker for 4 yards or their pass to Goff that was illegal. So entertaining!

24 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Moore and Steichen both got HC jobs immediately after being Hurts' OC

You guys just don't listen. You'll come around one day...

2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

You can name on one hand all of the NFL offenses that have been consistently good to start the season, and the Eagles have already beaten a couple of them.

I hope all you guys were entertained by the Lions double reverse flea flicker for 4 yards or their pass to Goff that was illegal. So entertaining!

I’m taking notes on TB, who are down to one WR and half their OL but are still making that offense work with an internal hire at OC (Gizzard?). Guy must be a genius.

31 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Moore and Steichen both got HC jobs immediately after being Hurts' OC

I think most OC will. The reason isn't Sirianni, it's because Hurts requires a certain level of adaptability. You can't really just take a tried and true method, drop him a few steps from under center with a play fake, overload a couple areas of a zone, and expect to make a lot of progress based on timing routes. That's not his game. So if you're successful with making Hurts look pretty good as a thrower, it shows at the very least that you're hiring someone pretty adaptable, particularly if they've worked with someone else before (notice that both people hired also worked as an offensive coordinator somewhere else, in some capacity).

I think this is the real reason why we can't keep an OC to save our lives. Think about it: The Ravens HC's background is literally a special teams coordinator and defensive position coach. We know this because he was with the Eagles prior. He CLEARLY is not an offensive guy. Lamar Jackson runs for free, but also slings the rock, and people know that OCs there run the show.

So why then, are the Ravens able to keep OCs for several years?

I think it's because his skillset can cover more of the traditional stuff than Jalen's does. With Jalen, it seems it's more effective nowadays to replace the short passing game with the run game. What I really don't understand is why after 2022 he seems to hate throwing timing when in 2022, his anticipation of receivers being open was clearly the best of his career.

38 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Moore and Steichen both got HC jobs immediately after being Hurts' OC

Steichen is interesting, as he took over after Siri fired himself for running a pass heavy offense. He went much more run heavy, RPO and a ton of Jalen running around (no hot routes then either).

Brian Johnson tried to pickup where Steichen left off and leaned into the RPO, but defenses learned how to scheme against it better and generated more turnovers - our defense got worn out and the season spiraled.

Moore comes in and installs his ideas. After a few games, there’s the OL revolt and he scraps his approach and goes ultra run heavy with the pass game being a supplement.

Patullo is elevated and tries Moore’s ultra conservative approach but the OL isn’t nearly as good, and is branded as a ****.

At this point the RPO offense is the best bet, but I’m not sure why we should expect much better results than when Brian Johnson was in charge as the OL is worse and again our defense is getting worn down carrying the team.