8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Gotcha, I remembered 2023 but it was before that season.

My point was: Nick had his chance to voice about the QB. They kept Hurts. Not everyone gets a NTC so let's not downplay that.

The organization chose Hurts. Nick was part of that.

I think this is a fair point, but I need to point out something. Back in 2022 or so, a lot of us were commenting on how Nick was able to become the kind of guy who could remove himself from a specific aspect to forward the goal of winning if he did not fit that aspect the best. Many considered that a very good trait, not a bad trait. That kind of guy isn't going to strongly push for his own philosophy of what he thinks is his type of QB in spite of the organization, or more importantly, how his players (and boss) feel about a leader in that kind of situation. 

Frankly, it'd probably help us if he was a little less adaptable and a little more demanding. 

51 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So since we’ve insisted on going so deep down the play clock and seconds to go rabbit hole and have obsessed over evidence and the burden of proof…does anyone actually want to argue that the offense would be so much meaningfully improved if they just got the LOS sooner? Do we want to argue that’s the biggest problem on offense? Would the passing game be ok if that idiot Patullo consistently got the play in earlier?

I think for me it's that Hurts has proven in the past to be pretty good at switching out of plays, so getting to the line with zero time to determine whether they should switch or not is a big hindrance to the offense. Half of that is Patullo calling crap plays to begin with, and then getting those plays in with no time to course correct based on the defense.

Hurts doesn't even have time to read the defense currently. By the time the huddle breaks and everyone is set they have 3 seconds to snap the ball. Would it fix the entire offense? Nope. But I believe we would see a little more cohesion

And also, I have one more thing to say. I think there's one more unfortunate problem that's more or less showing its head.

I think...Jalen's personality is a bit of a problem. A lot of people for a while really seemed to like the cool stoic kind of personality he has, but I think there's a small issue. I don't want to overblow it, I don't think this is above the other issues but...

Basically. His personality is not built for righting bad situations. Jalen does a lot of preventing you from being in bad situations historically, when combined with the talent his teams have presented him with. But once you get there, he doesn't do a lot to help you get out from a personality perspective. It only really hit me when I heard Foles talk especially, and how in his analysis, he seemed almost "desperate" in a way, like an incessant search for answers. It kind of surprised me, because I know Nick (Foles) also as the type who doesn't get too hot, doesn't get too cold. And then I kind of thought about it, and realized that Brady's kinda like that too, with some different traits. Very hot personality, demanding of excellence, detail obsessive, they're the type to right ships that go sideways as long as people are willing to listen to them.

I think one thing with the 'collapses' is that Jalen doesn't have that. He's not really a galvanizer in that sense. Saquon talked about the sideline energy of the offense being awful, Brady for example didn't stand for that.

It's absolutely not only Jalen that's like that. His personality type among QBs isn't that common, but there's other personality types that aren't great at galvanizing too. But I think that's probably contributing to this too.

I think the most fascinating conversation this off-season is going to be between Lurie and Howie with sirianni in terms of Nick Sirianni‘s opinion is on Jalen hurts. Based off, listening to Zach Berman, lurie loves hurt. Imo I’d guess he still believes 2022 Jalen hurts is in there and can get that out of him more consistently.

Imo If sirianni goes to that interview disagrees on that or feels like he can get him to play better but not necessarily to the level of 2022 hurts, he might not be the coach next year. that is a big fundamental difference between Lurie/howie/FO and HC on what hurts is and where he should be if that is the case. Also lurie might perceive that as sirianni does not know how to elevate him/offense to meet their expectations

That said i don’t think sirianni goes into that discussion thinking he can’t get him back there.

What a win by Villanova. I thought they were dead in the water when they were down 14-0.

7 minutes ago, devpool said:

I think for me it's that Hurts has proven in the past to be pretty good at switching out of plays, so getting to the line with zero time to determine whether they should switch or not is a big hindrance to the offense. Half of that is Patullo calling crap plays to begin with, and then getting those plays in with no time to course correct based on the defense.

Hurts doesn't even have time to read the defense currently. By the time the huddle breaks and everyone is set they have 3 seconds to snap the ball. Would it fix the entire offense? Nope. But I believe we would see a little more cohesion

Not pretty good, that's a combination of flashbulb memory and total frame of reference. He's okay at it at least, and I'd say fine within the right framework. If you ask me personally though, that's not the thing that concerns me the most with getting in the play call late. The thing that concerns me the most is Jalen is not the best field reader post-snap, so pre-snap is probably pretty important for compensating for that.

If it were me as HC (and for some reason did not move off Patullo), and this is going to sound absolutely crazy and almost impossible at this point, but I would have heavily considered digging tape out from the Chip Kelly days and the sideline signal team, and re-implemented that for this season. If you've heard some of the NFL playcalls, they break down into several parts. This would at least let them get the CALL in, and then the advisory stuff that you hear in the examples of 'what you hear in a helmet speaker' can be the focus during the allowed time of the helmet speaker. If Patullo is naturally just a little slow with getting calls in, that could help out tremendously, especially because it completely sidesteps the need to relay the play to the team.

Never EVER would happen, but it's exactly what I'd do if I wanted to help him out.

11 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think the most fascinating conversation this off-season is going to be between Lurie and Howie with sirianni in terms of Nick Sirianni‘s opinion is on Jalen hurts. Based off, listening to Zach Berman, lurie loves hurt. Imo I’d guess he still believes 2022 Jalen hurts is in there and can get that out of him more consistently.

Imo If sirianni goes to that interview disagrees on that or feels like he can get him to play better but not necessarily to the level of 2022 hurts, he might not be the coach next year. that is a big fundamental difference between Lurie/howie/FO and HC on what hurts is and where he should be if that is the case. Also lurie might perceive that as sirianni does not know how to elevate him/offense to meet their expectations

Don't forget that Lurie just gave Nick a new contract. I doubt he wants to pay a coach that's not on the team

31 minutes ago, devpool said:

I think for me it's that Hurts has proven in the past to be pretty good at switching out of plays, so getting to the line with zero time to determine whether they should switch or not is a big hindrance to the offense. Half of that is Patullo calling crap plays to begin with, and then getting those plays in with no time to course correct based on the defense.

Hurts doesn't even have time to read the defense currently. By the time the huddle breaks and everyone is set they have 3 seconds to snap the ball. Would it fix the entire offense? Nope. But I believe we would see a little more cohesion

Just to pile on a little, getting to the LOS so late precludes effective use of shifts and motion. I’m sure that much of why we use so little of that is for this reason: we line up late.

13 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think the most fascinating conversation this off-season is going to be between Lurie and Howie with sirianni in terms of Nick Sirianni‘s opinion is on Jalen hurts. Based off, listening to Zach Berman, lurie loves hurt. Imo I’d guess he still believes 2022 Jalen hurts is in there and can get that out of him more consistently.

Imo If sirianni goes to that interview disagrees on that or feels like he can get him to play better but not necessarily to the level of 2022 hurts, he might not be the coach next year. that is a big fundamental difference between Lurie/howie/FO and HC on what hurts is and where he should be if that is the case. Also lurie might perceive that as sirianni does not know how to elevate him/offense to meet their expectations

That said i don’t think sirianni goes into that discussion thinking he can’t get him back there.

That's pretty disgusting to think about. Hurts will only get back to 2022 levels with a Shanahan level OC or HC, perfect fit HC or OC (Steichen, etc) or a very very notable improvement of his skills to get the ball out consistently on time. 2022 Hurts was 2022 Hurts because his timing was much better than any other year. And because he had timing throws, his deep ball created a 1-2 punch in the passing game. Even Kellen Moore couldn't get him anywhere close.

Especially since Siri never got to choose his QB, it's kind of setting him up to fail.

Either way though, my current thought process is probably that we have both a QB and a HC that would be notably worse if they weren't helped out by the Eagles roster construction. Chances are, the first one who isn't here is going to be considered 'the one who weighed the other down', when in reality they mutually weigh each other down (but Sirianni limits his involvement to avoid making that issue bigger).

7 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Don't forget that Lurie just gave Nick a new contract. I doubt he wants to pay a coach that's not on the team

I don’t think he wants to fire him. Unless there’s like a massive collapse and they don’t win another game this year. However, if he goes into that meeting and disagrees on Jalen hurts and going forward with him or what he can be, that is a pretty big fundamental difference. Don’t see lurie using sunk cost on hurts at year’s end a year removed from a SB run

8 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Don't forget that Lurie just gave Nick a new contract. I doubt he wants to pay a coach that's not on the team

For a while, in fact...

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t think he wants to fire him. Unless there’s like a massive collapse and they don’t win another game this year. However, if he goes into that meeting and disagrees on Jalen hurts and going forward with him or what he can be, that is a pretty big fundamental difference.

You know, for someone who's so obsessed with prolific passing apparently, Lurie is sure not obsessed with QBs who can prolifically pass. You'd be thinking he'd be desperately going after a passer with the ability to dice up secondaries wherever he can find them, but instead he seems to focus on mobility in a lot of situations.

Not saying Jalen doesn't have other notable intangibles, he does. It's more just surprising that he isn't obsessed with passing ability as much as he is with the action of passing (allegedly).

1 minute ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

That's pretty disgusting to think about. Hurts will only get back to 2022 levels with a Shanahan level OC or HC, perfect fit HC or OC (Steichen, etc) or a very very notable improvement of his skills to get the ball out consistently on time. 2022 Hurts was 2022 Hurts because his timing was much better than any other year. And because he had timing throws, his deep ball created a 1-2 punch in the passing game. Even Kellen Moore couldn't get him anywhere close.

Especially since Siri never got to choose his QB, it's kind of setting him up to fail.

Either way though, my current thought process is probably that we have both a QB and a HC that would be notably worse if they weren't helped out by the Eagles roster construction. Chances are, the first one who isn't here is going to be considered 'the one who weighed the other down', when in reality they mutually weigh each other down (but Sirianni limits his involvement to avoid making that issue bigger).

Setting them up to fail or not, if Lurie believes that then that’s what he wants. Whether it’s realistic to achieve again is another question. If Nick Sirianni goes into that meeting and doesn’t believe that he can get him there or doesn’t believe hurts is anymore that that is a massive fundamental difference between those two. Whether or not Nick Sirianni was set up to fail Lurie will make the decision based off what he believes the offense should be and what his beliefs are. Unfortunately for sirianni he might not get the Qb he ideally wants until his next stop

To your last part, I said this before and agree with. Howie roseman’s roster construction since dealing wentz is the biggest reason for sustained winning. That said I believe it is not all on Jalen hurts and it’s not all on Nick Sirianni for the issues we have on offense. It’s a combo of them. Said last year it wasn’t all on Moore and not all on hurts for the passing game being inconsistent. It’s both. Imo i don’t think hurts and sirianni are ideally not a great mix but credit to them and howie for winning as much as they have.

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t think he wants to fire him. Unless there’s like a massive collapse and they don’t win another game this year. However, if he goes into that meeting and disagrees on Jalen hurts and going forward with him or what he can be, that is a pretty big fundamental difference.

I believe the discussion will be (should be) the plan to move on from Hurts after the 2026 season and what that looks like. Howie would be the pilot on that one. I have an extraordinarily hard time believing Sirianni would tether his future to the insistence on extending Hurts beyond that point

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

I believe the discussion will be (should be) the plan to move on from Hurts after the 2026 season and what that looks like. Howie would be the pilot on that one. I have an extraordinarily hard time believing Sirianni would tether his future to the insistence on extending Hurts beyond that point

I think the plan at Qb after 2026 is a Howie and Lurie discussion. Imo probably already discussed and are usually proactive to give them more flexibility/options. Less input about what Nick wants after 2026 because he might ultimately not be here for 2027 if the offense isn’t good next year.

I really think nick’s discussion with Lurie/howie is probably similar to when he got the job and they questioned him about how he was going to fix wentz. Except now it’s hurts, pass offense and whether or not he believes hurts is the guy to do it for him going into 2026. I do believe Lurie wants hurts in 2026 to be the QB (ideally beyond that) and sirianni to get him back to his peak

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

Not everyone gets a NTC so let's not downplay that.

Disagree with this. It’s very common nowadays with big QB contracts. Watson, Hurts, Mahomes, Allen, Prescott, Goff, Cousins, Jackson, Lawrence, Herbert and Purdy all have it. Once Watson got it, it pretty much became standard practice.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

FWIW, AR and Mcnabb were notorious for not getting the play in on time. It was never an issue for AR post Mcnabb. I have no idea if it was or wasn’t an issue for Mcnabb during his time in DC.

… well I do remember a time he was benched for Rex Grossman at the end of the game because they were running the hurry up… pretty sure that happened

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Disagree with this. It’s very common nowadays with big QB contracts. Watson, Hurts, Mahomes, Allen, Prescott, Goff, Cousins, Jackson, Lawrence, Herbert and Purdy all have it. Once Watson got it, it pretty much became standard practice.

Ok. I didn't realize that.

On 12/12/2025 at 10:37 AM, just relax said:

@mattwill

Vegas 17 Eagles 13.

Bonus: Crosby has three sacks.

There is no joy in Mudville ...