4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Hurts needs to up his manicure game.

Caleb Williams still plays like he's on meth. Ben Johnson made it look a little nicer but I don't know if he's a winning QB.

They could very easily have a massive regression next year without all the miracle comebacks

I'll continue to reiterate that selecting coaches is a difficult crapshoot. Certain candidates are not nearly as observably and objectively superior or inferior to others as it is with players. And yet there are still tiers of guys that have options and tiers that do not. Mcdaniel could be a huge failure and the next big thing could be a WR coach in Las Vegas who just got fired as part of a regime change. You just don't know. So I completely disagree with the "OMG who is going to run the offense now" panic.

They will get someone to run the offense. We'll dissect how the offense did, how the QB did, how much senior offensive control other coaches had over him, and who they learned from....at every stop since their first intern assistant job in high school, most of which they'll have been only a small force vector, one of many, in ultimately determining the success or failure of those offenses. And it will paint a picture that generally won't reveal much about their pending success or failure as Eagles OC. And we'll see how it goes.

As I've said a million times by now, my concern is that it's becoming progressively clear that the tier 1 guys with options do not have a high opinion of the situation here. Worry about that. Worry about that a lot. That's more important than the guy they eventually recruit.

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

Caleb Williams still plays like he's on meth. Ben Johnson made it look a little nicer but I don't know if he's a winning QB.

They could very easily have a massive regression next year without all the miracle comebacks

The 2026 Bears are prime candidates to be the 2025 Commanders. Now, the Commanders also quadrupled down on stupidity by signing players to create the oldest roster in decades...

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Well, let's go back and look at the whole you need an offensive guru play caller to win, because the SB results basically say you really don't, and the gurus win when they have HOF quarterbacks:

2010 - Mike McCarthy, offensive play caller with HOF QB

2011 - Tom Coughlin, non-play caller

2012 - Harbuagh, CEO coach

2013 - Pete Carroll, defensive coach

2014 - Belichick, defensive coach, GOAT QB

2015 - Kubiak, offensive play caller, HOF QB (to be fair, didn't play like one)

2016 - Belichick, defensive coach, GOAT QB

2017 - Pederson, Offensive play caller, no HOF QB

2018 - Belichick, defensive coach, GOAT QB

2019 - Reid, Offensive play caller, HOF QB

2020 - Arians, not play caller, GOAT QB

2021 - McVay, Offensive play caller, HOF QB

2022 - Reid, Offensive play caller, HOF QB

2023 - Reid, Offensive play caller, HOF QB

2024 - Sirianni, CEO Coach

So the only offensive play caller to win a Super Bowl without a sure fire HOF QB was Dougie P. Kubiak - Manning was a shell of himself, so maybe call it 2 times. But Reid and McVay never won until they got their hall of fame QB.

Yep. Pretty obvious honestly. It's kind of funny because what people are basically begging for is 'We need Reid and JJ 2.0, but with new Howie'. And I'm like yeah, but if that grew on trees everyone would have one. That's obviously optimal, but it isn't easy.

2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Caleb Williams still plays like he's on meth. Ben Johnson made it look a little nicer but I don't know if he's a winning QB.

They could very easily have a massive regression next year without all the miracle comebacks

He can roll left and throw the ball in the wind - that's impressive.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Well, let's go back and look at the whole you need an offensive guru play caller to win, because the SB results basically say you really don't, and the gurus win when they have HOF quarterbacks:

2010 - Mike McCarthy, offensive play caller with HOF QB

2011 - Tom Coughlin, non-play caller

2012 - Harbuagh, CEO coach

2013 - Pete Carroll, defensive coach

2014 - Belichick, defensive coach, GOAT QB

2015 - Kubiak, offensive play caller, HOF QB (to be fair, didn't play like one)

2016 - Belichick, defensive coach, GOAT QB

2017 - Pederson, Offensive play caller, no HOF QB

2018 - Belichick, defensive coach, GOAT QB

2019 - Reid, Offensive play caller, HOF QB

2020 - Arians, not play caller, GOAT QB

2021 - McVay, Offensive play caller, HOF QB

2022 - Reid, Offensive play caller, HOF QB

2023 - Reid, Offensive play caller, HOF QB

2024 - Sirianni, CEO Coach

So the only offensive play caller to win a Super Bowl without a sure fire HOF QB was Dougie P. Kubiak - Manning was a shell of himself, so maybe call it 2 times. But Reid and McVay never won until they got their hall of fame QB.

2013 was a defensive win. That offense was trash

2024 was a defensive win as well. Though the offense wasn't trash

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I'll continue to reiterate that selecting coaches is a difficult crapshoot. Certain candidates are not nearly as observably and objectively superior or inferior to others as it is with players. And yet there are still tiers of guys that have options and tiers that do not. Mcdaniel could be a huge failure and the next big thing could be a WR coach in Las Vegas who just got fired as part of a regime change. You just don't know. So I completely disagree with the "OMG who is going to run the offense now" panic.

They will get someone to run the offense. We'll dissect how the offense did, how the QB did, how much senior offensive control other coaches had over him, and who they learned from....at every stop since their first intern assistant job in high school, most of which they'll have been only a small force vector, one of many, in ultimately determining the success or failure of those offenses. And it will paint a picture that generally won't reveal much about their pending success or failure as Eagles OC. And we'll see how it goes.

As I've said a million times by now, my concern is that it's becoming progressively clear that the tier 1 guys with options do not have a high opinion of the situation here. Worry about that. Worry about that a lot. That's more important than the guy they eventually recruit.

My biggest question is why this seems to be so consistent regardless of the coaching regime too. What happened during the Chip Kelly era that made the perception so bad? I feel like with Andy we were growing into a highly respected franchise lauded for patience and stability as an FO, but since Chip left, we've been missing on strong candidates (on paper, we've found some diamonds in the rough) pretty much constantly? Why?

Just now, AmericanEagle77 said:

Yep. Pretty obvious honestly. It's kind of funny because what people are basically begging for is 'We need Reid and JJ 2.0, but with new Howie'. And I'm like yeah, but if that grew on trees everyone would have one. That's obviously optimal, but it isn't easy.

Also, while Andy is a great coach, he never won the big one until he got Mahomes. McNabb is definitely a Hall of Very Good QB, and Reid couldn't get a championship with him. He only won 1 playoff game in KC before Mahomes. McVay got to a Super Bowl with Goff and scored 3 points.

Hell, even Bill Walsh had Joe Montana.

3 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

He can roll left and throw the ball in the wind - that's impressive.

True. Ours just throws it outta bounds

You don't need an offensive guru to win, but it's the most ideal setup. I think if you asked every NFL franchise in a vacuum you could have one style head coach as your guy if you were starting a franchise, irrespective of the roster, it would be that kind of coach. It just gives you so many advantages. Doesn't mean you can't win in other ways. It's the same thing as not needing an elite top 5 QB to win a Super Bowl. But ideally that's what you'd start any roster with.

Maybe Howie can continue to navigate the difficulties of this current situation and keep putting championships rosters on the field, but Howie even as good as he is, is probably on an unsustainable run of drafting and health and I don't think Sirianni's success is going to last unless Howie continues this heater going forward. Which will be hard to do given the salaries they're about to need to start giving out.

Just now, Eriv20 said:

True. Ours just throws it outta bounds

KP told him so - what else can he possibly do.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Also, while Andy is a great coach, he never won the big one until he got Mahomes. McNabb is definitely a Hall of Very Good QB, and Reid couldn't get a championship with him. He only won 1 playoff game in KC before Mahomes. McVay got to a Super Bowl with Goff and scored 3 points.

Hell, even Bill Walsh had Joe Montana.

Was it really only 1? Phew, and here I thought it was at least a couple...

Put this in writing:

Pro's to the job:

1. Produced 2 head coaches in short time frame.

2. Competitive roster.

Cons:

1. Pressure to win, intense fan base. Do you think some of the most egomaniacal personalities in the country shy away from that?

2. Produced 2 abrupt one-and-done firings in a short time frame.

Debatable:

1. Autonomy / chain of command. Reports are that the Eagles sold this as a fully independent job running the offense. If that's true, how much could any concerns about Siri really be turning people away? Lurie and Howie are definitely complex, but I'm not at the point of believing they are a net negative on coach recruiting. If you blame Siri, then you are saying the reports of promised autonomy are just wrong.

2. Personnel. QB limited as a passer, WR1 may not be here, OL may be over the hill.

My take: lots of noice and rhetoric and one real reason: it all comes down to personnel. The highest paid offense in the NFL, moving forward, does not have the pieces in place that these coaches think they can succeed here.

2 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

Was it really only 1? Phew, and here I thought it was at least a couple...

Only win was 2015

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ReidAn0.htm

2 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

KP told him so - what else can he possibly do.

Meh I dunno about that. That’s a staple play for hurts during his time here. Bail to the right on a clean pocket, throw it out of bounds. It’s crazy because it’s rare that any plays are made when he scrambles.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Put this in writing:

Pro's to the job:

1. Produced 2 head coaches in short time frame.

2. Competitive roster.

Cons:

1. Pressure to win, intense fan base. Do you think some of the most egomaniacal personalities in the country shy away from that?

2. Produced 2 abrupt one-and-done firings in a short time frame.

Debatable:

1. Autonomy / chain of command. Reports are that the Eagles sold this as a fully independent job running the offense. If that's true, how much could any concerns about Siri really be turning people away? Lurie and Howie are definitely complex, but I'm not at the point of believing they are a net negative on coach recruiting. If you blame Siri, then you are saying the reports of promised autonomy are just wrong.

2. Personnel. QB limited as a passer, WR1 may not be here, OL may be over the hill.

My take: lots of noice and rhetoric and one real reason: it all comes down to personnel. The highest paid offense in the NFL, moving forward, does not have the pieces in place that these coaches think they can succeed here.

I think the fan base part is overblown. It's like people don't see how other fan bases react

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Only win was 2015

Andy Reid Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks | Pro-Fo...

This explains a lot......

We had Reid, McNabb and JJ as DC and still didn’t win a ring.

Of course the ideal setup is an offensive guru as HC, a HOF QB and a DC who won’t leave. Thats what Reid had in KC. Very hard to get all that.

In lieu of that you just try to do the best you can. Nothing is really sustainable in the nfl.

The Titans list

on another front there’s no word that the eagles interviewed Slowik yet just that they requested to

40 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Doyle is very intriguing. I was watching the Bears/Rams game and lamenting how the Bears were scheming guys wide open - I couldn't remember the Eagles doing that at all in 2025. Yes, he's young (29 or 30) and has never called plays, but he's worked for Payton and Johnson. As an added bonus, he's likely 2-3 years away from serious HC consideration. I'm not despondent over losing McDaniel (overrated IMO and a bad fit with Jalen) or Daboll (he's getting the Bills' job), and I think someone like this could inject fresh blood. Of the names that have been reported/rumored, I'd say my order is : Brady, Kingsbury (really hasn't been linked to us), Slowik and Doyle are my top tier. After that, I'd handle Cooter (I think he gets a bad rap, was once a hot name when Lions OC, been with Shane), Weis Jr (don't love no NFL experience). I'd be angry with Kafka, and I'd burn down the Linc if they hire Nagy.

I have a contrarian viewpoint on Nagy. While not as exciting as some the younger prospects, Nagy has a lot of experience in various roles. If we truly want Sirianni out of the offense, this is one guy that can probably handle that side of the ball. He has learned firsthand under one of the best to ever do it in Reid. He has experience in WCO, has incorporated the RPO, PA and uses misdirection. He was a HC candidate but he may have to put in a couple of good years as OC before he gets another HC job. Easily has the most experience of any of the purported candidates.

31 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I'm rich, but I'm not buy an NFL franchise rich.

I'm so annoyed that TJ beat me to a "be less poor" joke

1 minute ago, pgcd3 said:

We had Reid, McNabb and JJ as DC and still didn’t win a ring.

Of course the ideal setup is an offensive guru as HC, a HOF QB and a DC who won’t leave. Thats what Reid had in KC. Very hard to get all that.

In lieu of that you just try to do the best you can. Nothing is really sustainable in the nfl.

The only way to truly have a dynasty (in the salary cap era) is to have a 1st ballot hall of fame QB. Brady. Mahomes. Manning. Brees had the Saints in the mix more often than not.

What the Eagles have done since 2017 really is bananas - they have been to 3 Super Bowls in 9 seasons with 2 wins, and have done it with massive turnover and good, not great, QBs. No other organization has done that - SF has been good but hasn't won the big game.

Doyle would be interesting. Feels a little like hiring Nick in '21 when we got a late start so they looked ahead at guys who would be potential HC candidates the next year.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

The only way to truly have a dynasty (in the salary cap era) is to have a 1st ballot hall of fame QB. Brady. Mahomes. Manning. Brees had the Saints in the mix more often than not.

What the Eagles have done since 2017 really is bananas - they have been to 3 Super Bowls in 9 seasons with 2 wins, and have done it with massive turnover and good, not great, QBs. No other organization has done that - SF has been good but hasn't won the big game.

It helps that the NFC didn't have much competition until a few years ago