Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

What this shows me is, they got a crappy commanders, defense, a crappy Raiders defense like they did before then against a bad giants defense, and they managed to score a long run on a fake tush push against the Chargers. Otherwise, the running game was still not very good.

Absolutely. But I'm not buying any narrative that they had a good running game that fell off a cliff once Stoutland got less involved. It was bad from the beginning and nothing worked.

3 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Coaches have disagreements all the time. It's a high pressure business. When teams aren't winning or reaching expectations, these things happen. The OL wasn't getting it done all year. Do you want Nick to come in to the OL room and give Stout some flowers? He was trying to improve the team.

You don't have to give flowers and he has every right to try to improve the team. My problem is from the reporting it sounds like the communication sucked to an extreme level which is easily avoidable.

45 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I'm fine with going in that direction overall(sans the Stoutland botch job) but it should be as head coach then.

All these changes they're making under Nick Sirianni. A guy who doesn't even run this system. So it begs the question: why is he still here?

Yup...bringing in Mahaffey the very next day after the Stoutland decision is signaling to me that Mannion has been given quite a bit of autonomy. Regardless of what Stoutland has publicly shared...there is a lot more going on behind the scenes. What I do believe is these personnel decisions appear to be happening with Sirianni in lame duck status. I think that is where the lack of communication is coming from...there is no clear leader of this team at the present moment.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Absolutely. But I'm not buying any narrative that they had a good running game that fell off a cliff once Stoutland got less involved. It was bad from the beginning and nothing worked.

I think the bigger issue coming from it was they wanted to make those changes and that they still didn’t work. So what they accomplish? the reality is they actually had a easier defensive schedule the second half of the year considering they got commanders twice, Buffalo (bad run defense) horrific cowboys defense and raiders. Yet managed to be worse in EPA and success rate with a softer defensive schedule in i totality compared to beginning of the year (giants an cowboys were only horrible defense to start the year)

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Absolutely. But I'm not buying any narrative that they had a good running game that fell off a cliff once Stoutland got less involved. It was bad from the beginning and nothing worked.

As I said before if Stout left after Super Bowl then everyone would have said how bad Stout’s replacement was in 2025 if he got the same results Stout actually got in 2025

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You seem to have quite the fan club. But I bet the issue is with everyone else instead of you, amirite?

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think the bigger issue coming from it was they wanted to make those changes and that they still didn’t work. So what they accomplish? the reality is they actually had a easier defensive schedule the second half of the year considering they got commanders twice, Buffalo (bad run defense) horrific cowboys defense and raiders. Yet managed to be worse in EPA and success rate with a softer defensive schedule in i totality compared to beginning of the year (giants an cowboys were only horrible defense to start the year)

I think dropping Lane in week 11 and losing Fred Johnson's sub-package role had a huge hand in that too.

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

If that is why he left then it is 100% on Nick. Who knows at this point?

We'll see what else comes out. If Stout quit as RGC or was replaced it doesn't matter much to me honestly. If he was relieved then doing that to a guy who is one of the best OL coaches in NFL history because of one bad season shows poor leadership from Nick with him not doing the same to his buddy as OC. By that bar Jeff should have fired him. If he wasn't listening to Stout and he quit as RGC that's on Nick as well because when you only bring vibes as a coach that breakdown of communication or lack of respect is unforgivable towards someone with his pedigree. Either way that's on Nick.

Could Stout have suddenly turned into a horrible coach? Maybe, but there were a lot of variables like injuries, horrible calls and design, and just an off year. Not taking that into account and blaming him while his buddy crapped the bed on a weekly basis is BS. Now, maybe he got tired of coaching and just wanted to be done. Sure, but I don't think it's coincidence. I also get what people are saying that he didn't want to learn a new system. Again, I'm sure that experience being disrespected by Nick didn't help with that as well. If the new OC didn't want him then as Les B said it makes me go OK kid one of your first choices as OC is to replace a OL goat?

None of it is good and Stout isn't infallible. Those who say we need a new system may be right, but just a year ago they had one of the best run games in NFL history. It's not like we've seen 3 or 4 years of it struggling and it's not like everyone was healthy. If they wanted to move on from him then that's one thing, but the way Nick handled it during the season probably leading in large part to this happening is inexcusable when that's supposed to be his strong point. He literally brings nothing then.

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think the bigger issue coming from it was they wanted to make those changes and that they still didn’t work. So what they accomplish? the reality is they actually had a easier defensive schedule the second half of the year considering they got commanders twice, Buffalo (bad run defense) horrific cowboys defense and raiders. Yet managed to be worse in EPA and success rate with a softer defensive schedule in i totality compared to beginning of the year (giants an cowboys were only horrible defense to start the year)

Sure that issue is one of the reasons Patullo is no longer OC. In addition to that it seems like they wanted the new OC to have his own RGC who wouldn’t get upset that he’s not being ‘listened’ to. I get it Stout deserves that respect but also why a fresh start isn’t terrible

4 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

As I said before if Stout left after Super Bowl then everyone would have said how bad Stout’s replacement was in 2025 if he got the same results Stout actually got in 2025

Absolutely. And that's not evidence that Stoutland did a bad job; it just demonstrates how many variables stand between our vantage point and the quality of work positions coaches are actually doing.

IMO, the only definitive mistake I can say he made this year was not have Fred Johnson immediately replace Lane at RT instead of Matt Pryor. And, yeah, fans and media would have eaten a replacement OL coach alive for that one.

Just now, eagle45 said:

I think dropping Lane in week 11 and losing Fred Johnson's sub-package role had a huge hand in that too.

I don’t doubt that that was an issue. However, you also had more bad defenses to take advantage of so the task wasn’t going up against the broncos defense or at that time Tampa’s run defense or early season chiefs defense.

What I find funnier in this whole thing, is they wanted to change things with the running game. The passing game for the better part of two years has been widely inconsistent and bottom third of the league. Did they actually do anything to fix that issue?

16 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

Coaches have disagreements all the time. It's a high pressure business. When teams aren't winning or reaching expectations, these things happen. The OL wasn't getting it done all year. Do you want Nick to come in to the OL room and give Stout some flowers? He was trying to improve the team.

My response to that is two fold. He should have communicated it better to Stoutland.

And even if he did and say it's been reported wrongly or Stoutland's people are leaking info to make him look better, then my other response to be ok he tried to improve the team and he failed. Everyone else seems to be losing their jobs on the offensive side of the ball over these failures. Why not him?

1 minute ago, pgcd3 said:

Sure that issue is one of the reasons Patullo is no longer OC. In addition to that it seems like they wanted the new OC to have his own RGC who wouldn’t get upset that he’s not being ‘listened’ to. I get it Stout deserves that respect but also why a fresh start isn’t terrible

I am less concerned with the fact that Scotland isn’t gonna be back at this point. I’m more concerned about some of the stuff from the McManus’article and how it was handled during this season.

I will point this out, siriainni went to fix the run game. Which it needed to cause it was not functionally very good or efficient. It wasn’t functionally very good even after they tried to do that. My question is what did they do to try to fix the passing game? Because it was ranked 30th in 2024. last year it was again wildly inconsistent week to week and bottom third in the league. so I asked the question did he get involved in trying to fix that? Cause based off predictability and hitch routes run each week feels like that got pretty ignored

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t doubt that that was an issue. However, you also had more bad defenses to take advantage of so the task wasn’t going up against the broncos defense or at that time Tampa’s run defense or early season chiefs defense.

What I find funnier in this whole thing, is they wanted to change things with the running game. The passing game for the better part of two years has been widely inconsistent and bottom third of the league. Did they actually do anything to fix that issue?

Continuing to counter 8-9 defenders in the box with condensed formations and running between the tackles over and over again knowing what the result is going to be...and doing it anyway...is the definition of insanity. It all starts there... they did it all season. I do not fault Stoutland or AJ Brown for expressing themselves with the level of stupidity that was taking place. I am just stunned that more have stayed so quiet...

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t doubt that that was an issue. However, you also had more bad defenses to take advantage of so the task wasn’t going up against the broncos defense or at that time Tampa’s run defense or early season chiefs defense.

What I find funnier in this whole thing, is they wanted to change things with the running game. The passing game for the better part of two years has been widely inconsistent and bottom third of the league. Did they actually do anything to fix that issue?

100%.

IMO, the only thing to change with the running game should have been to use more Tank and to rest Dickerson and Jurgens until they could move. That's personnel, not schematic.

But why didn't they make any changes in the passing game?? Was there a reason they couldn't even try? (Sorry to keep beating the Hurts drum).

I'm not basing this off stats or anyone else's reports. To my gestalt, it felt like they genuinely mixed up their offensive approach in 3 games this year in an attempt to evolve: Chargers, Raiders, and 49ers. Chargers game it really felt like they opened up the routes and targets and we know what happened. Raiders game they did the same and it looked beautiful; but I would contend that they were playing against air. And 49ers game was the least bold of the 3...more like a few wrinkles here and there to try to spark a dead offense, none of which really worked after the first couple drives.

6 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

My response to that is two fold. He should have communicated it better to Stoutland.

And even if he did and say it's been reported wrongly or Stoutland's people are leaking info to make him look better, then my other response to be ok he tried to improve the team and he failed. Everyone else seems to be losing their jobs on the offensive side of the ball over these failures. Why not him?

Because they still won 11 games, the division, the Super Bowl last year, and he has one of the best W-L records of all-time. Why would we be in a rush to fire him?

I have a lot of the same doubts about Nick as everyone else, but I'm not rushing to fire him to just hire another guy who is maybe a better head coach.

I don't think the new coaches and scheme will permit Hurts to throw for 3200 yards and 6ints this year (2900 yards and 5int in 2024). For the last 2 years, the coaches either allowed that or dictated that. That's a caretaker offense and you all know it.

I think the route complexity, passing yards, and INTs are all going to jump. And he'll sink or swim based on how many open targets he misses and turnovers he creates.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

100%.

IMO, the only thing to change with the running game should have been to use more Tank and to rest Dickerson and Jurgens until they could move. That's personnel, not schematic.

But why didn't they make any changes in the passing game?? Was there a reason they couldn't even try? (Sorry to keep beating the Hurts drum).

I'm not basing this off stats or anyone else's reports. To my gestalt, it felt like they genuinely mixed up their offensive approach in 3 games this year in an attempt to evolve: Chargers, Raiders, and 49ers. Chargers game it really felt like they opened up the routes and targets and we know what happened. Raiders game they did the same and it looked beautiful; but I would contend that they were playing against air. And 49ers game was the least bold of the 3...more like a few wrinkles here and there to try to spark a dead offense, none of which really worked after the first couple drives.

I said this at the end of the 2024 season, if the Eagles didn’t fix their passing game that they were gonna have issues with the running game in 2025. To expect to have a historic running attack with a pedestrian/inconsistent passing game was not likely a recipe you could consistently sustain year to year.

I view it this way, the running attack needed tinker, and to be fixed. However, I would argue since that 49ers game in 2023 that the passing game has been wildly more inconsistent week to week and far more pedestrian that they have yet to figure that out or really find any way to make that consistent. Whether it’s hurts, you want to blame. Or blaming Nick. Yet I have yet to see any info so far this off-season saying he went and attempted to fix some of the issues like running a high percentage of hitch route on predictability of aj lining up on one side and running the same 2 routes 95% of the time like Shannon sharpe/chad Johnson pointed out

I wonder if Mailata will continue to hail from Stoutland U. I have to imagine that he will not forget about his alma mater.

24 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

You don't have to give flowers and he has every right to try to improve the team. My problem is from the reporting it sounds like the communication sucked to an extreme level which is easily avoidable.

Bad communication from coaches to players

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't think the new coaches and scheme will permit Hurts to throw for 3200 yards and 6ints this year (2900 yards and 5int in 2024). For the last 2 years, the coaches either allowed that or dictated that. That's a caretaker offense and you all know it.

I think the route complexity, passing yards, and INTs are all going to jump. And he'll sink or swim based on how many open targets he misses and turnovers he creates.

Agreed and then we’ll see how Hurts does. I’m sure some will pass judgement in one series but I’ll give him 4 games to get momentum as Mannion will also need time

7 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

My response to that is two fold. He should have communicated it better to Stoutland.

And even if he did and say it's been reported wrongly or Stoutland's people are leaking info to make him look better, then my other response to be ok he tried to improve the team and he failed. Everyone else seems to be losing their jobs on the offensive side of the ball over these failures. Why not him?

You are right. These stories are no longer isolated either.

It's not just Brown being upset

It's not just coaches don't want to come here

Vic suddenly deciding to retire and having to be talked back into returning

Stout not being listened to/cutting ties

Nick can't call plays or help the offense, he can't coach the defense, he's supposed to bring vibes and it's clear he is failing there as well. He's not the communicator people say, which lines up with how he acts like a clown. He's a guy who had great rosters thanks to his GM, a QB who got it done in two SBs, the GOAT of OL coaches, and two good coordinators each time they went to the SB. If Jeff was worried about looking like a dysfunctional organization by firing Nick one year after the SB he got it anyway. He should have fired him.

36 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Do we really know that he was disrespected?

Yes, we do. He just left the team!

1 minute ago, pgcd3 said:

Agreed and then we’ll see how Hurts does. I’m sure some will pass judgement in one series but I’ll give him 4 games to get momentum as Mannion will also need time

4 games might not be enough. They’ve got to implement a whole new offensive philosophy and offense. You have one off-season to do it. And then there’s gonna be learning curve from the players. you also have a OC who’s never called plays before and likely going to have growing pains as well. I would be floored if this offense looks like a top tier offense consistently in the first six games. You’re just hoping that each week they seem to get a little bit better so that by the time you get to week 10 that maybe they take off

This also doesn’t include the fact they may not have aj, goedert or lane

51 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't have any dogs in the defend Siri fight. That said, I'm unconvinced that's how it went down. It's speculation from all of us. And I'm just not sure that, behind the scenes, it was as simple as Siri kicking Stoutland to the curb in favor of Patullo.

37 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Do we really know that he was disrespected?

I agree that we do not know how it happened. We don't know if he was disrespected. We know Stoutland is beloved by his players. He is considered the top o-line coach in the League. We do know his job duties as a run game coordinator were taken from him during the season. He quit just after the hiring of the new OC. Correlation doe not equal causation. I don't think it is pure speculation to suggest that Stoutland was upset with how he was treated and his role in the organization going forward. Maybe moving on from him is the right decision. I think we should all be very concerned that it is the wrong direction for the team.