13 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I thought he retired before SB 52?

46 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Or carry 2 kickers on the 53, which would be...interesting.

They kind of do that already. Mann was a kicker in HS as well as a punter. 25/25 PAT as a senior, 7/10 on FGs, including at 49 yarder as a junior. 46/48 PATs that year. They are just looking at Sanchez because they want to insure that BigEFly stays a fan. As a UH fan, I would stick with Elliott.

26 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Your last point is what makes this all so fascinating. Let's run through the top QBs:

Allen - never could conquer the Chiefs in the playoffs, and then this year lost to Bo freaking Nix. Physically, he might be the most talented QB in the game, but his inability to get it done this year, without Mahomes in his way, is really telling.

Lamar - ESPN ranked the Ravens' roster as better than the Eagles going into 2025, and he still managed to miss the playoffs.

Burrow - basically lives off beating Mahomes in the 2021 AFCCG. Top flight wideouts and can't make the playoffs. Meanwhile Hurts made it with our train wreck of a defense in 2023.

Herbert - don't make me laugh

All of those guys are more talented than Hurts, will put up better stats, etc. But none of them delivered in big moments. It's why in my mind, the QB hierarchy is basically Mahomes by himself, and then let arguments ensue.

Definitely helps to have the best Oline out of those 5

Hurts needs to have a very specific set of circumstances around him in order to succeed. When he has them, he can win the big games. He can play his part well and execute what needs to be executed.

Is he the kind of transformational player that can throw a team on his back and carry them? Haven't seen that yet. Unfortunately not too many of those guys exist, and when they do come along they're usually out of reach to all but the worst teams in the league. We can't crucify Hurts for not being one of them. But it is fair to question if we've seen the maximum he can do, and if it's something we can live with.

If we can get the OL right and chalk up last year to the injury bug, there's no reason we can't be right back in the mix. All the talent is still here. If things don't gel right away though it could be a rough start to the season.

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Definitely helps to have the best Oline out of those 5

Bills and Ravens lines were better last year, but damn those facts. Same website has Ravens line better in 2024. But the idea we had a top O line last year is comical.

NFL Lines

NFL 2025 Final Comparative Offensive Line Rankings - NFL...

Here are the Final NFL 2025 Offensive Line ratings and rankings.  Comparative ranking rate teams based on their performance in metrics vs all other teams.

2 minutes ago, hukdonfoniks said:

Hurts needs to have a very specific set of circumstances around him in order to succeed. When he has them, he can win the big games. He can play his part well and execute what needs to be executed.

Is he the kind of transformational player that can throw a team on his back and carry them? Haven't seen that yet. Unfortunately not too many of those guys exist, and when they do come along they're usually out of reach to all but the worst teams in the league. We can't crucify Hurts for not being one of them. But it is fair to question if we've seen the maximum he can do, and if it's something we can live with.

If we can get the OL right and chalk up last year to the injury bug, there's no reason we can't be right back in the mix. All the talent is still here. If things don't gel right away though it could be a rough start to the season.

To be fair, we've never seen Hurts in this system. He might be terrible in it, and then the team has to move on if they are committed to the system. And if he excels in it, then he's the guy for the long term.

The only QB in the league that can seemingly carry a team to a championship is Mahomes. We have yet to see Allen, Lamar or Burrow do it.

7 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Bills and Ravens lines were better last year, but damn those facts. Same website has Ravens line better in 2024. But the idea we had a top O line last year is comical.

NFL Lines

NFL 2025 Final Comparative Offensive Line Rankings - NFL...

Here are the Final NFL 2025 Offensive Line ratings and rankings.  Comparative ranking rate teams based on their performance in metrics vs all other teams.

Not really the gotcha you think it is. You assumed I was talking about only 2025. We've had one of the best Olines since all of those QBs have been in the league when the line is healthy. Also that link only has data from 2024 and 2025..

Even with the injuries and all we were #10 in 2025 (which is actually surprising)

58 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't get it with Jake Elliott. He is, IMO, the best kicker in franchise history. In the past, he's had ice in his veins for the biggest, longest kicks. All of the biggest kicks in franchise history are his, not Akers. With the way he's performed in multiple SB's, I really can't question anything between the ears on him...yet how has he fallen off a cliff at a very young age for kickers?

Kickers are mental midgets like relief pitchers. If one thing is off you can lose them permanently. Who knows why. The yips, confidence, whatever it is.

20 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

What positions is 2027 supposed to be great for?

QB

Just in time for our next franchise QB

5 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

QB

Just in time for our next franchise QB

Few years ago Manning was being praised. Is he still a top prospect?

Every year they do their due diligence on scouting. It helps if a player falls, goes undrafted, even signing them years later as we've seen. They will have a complete scouting profile. Makes decisions easier, even later if they are released or become a free agent.

20 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Kickers are mental midgets like relief pitchers. If one thing is off you can lose them permanently. Who knows why. The yips, confidence, whatever it is.

I'm not sure they are mental midgets so much as the job itself is prone to the yips due to the pressure.

12 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Few years ago Manning was being praised. Is he still a top prospect?

IMO, everyone either thinks Manning is overrated coddled garbage OR the next big thing at QB.

The upcoming season will tell the story.

2 hours ago, paco said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA !!... Pop an a** open !!

52 minutes ago, hukdonfoniks said:

Hurts needs to have a very specific set of circumstances around him in order to succeed. When he has them, he can win the big games. He can play his part well and execute what needs to be executed.

Is he the kind of transformational player that can throw a team on his back and carry them? Haven't seen that yet. Unfortunately not too many of those guys exist, and when they do come along they're usually out of reach to all but the worst teams in the league. We can't crucify Hurts for not being one of them. But it is fair to question if we've seen the maximum he can do, and if it's something we can live with.

If we can get the OL right and chalk up last year to the injury bug, there's no reason we can't be right back in the mix. All the talent is still here. If things don't gel right away though it could be a rough start to the season.

People often say this.

Then point out that Allen & Burrow aren't winning because of their supporting cast. So...they need talent around them too.

Mahomes got owned by the Bucs & Eagles in the SB when his O line got dominated by the defensive line. He has a legendary HC, great DC and has hadca top TE in Kelce around him. When they've lost a WR, people said it would hurt him losing a good receiver.

Dak & Lamar have had great talent and won absolutely nothing.

Great QBs over the years have had great talent and coaches around them.

That's why I hate that particular argument against Hurts.

26 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

QB

Just in time for our next franchise QB

LaNorris Sellers will be available next year.

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

People often say this.

Then point out that Allen & Burrow aren't winning because of their supporting cast. So...they need talent around them too.

Mahomes got owned by the Bucs & Eagles in the SB when his O line got dominated by the defensive line.

Dak & Lamar have had great talent and won absolutely nothing.

Great QBs over the years have had great talent and coaches around them.

That's why I hate that particular argument against Hurts.

I completely agree, its a puff piece that's made up to create some drama because the draft is still 3 weeks away. Its either that or a sour grapes piece from Patullos camp that's trying to paint Jalen in a negative light.

the mans father was a coach but yet hurts is uncoachable..... got it.

1 hour ago, vikas83 said:

Your last point is what makes this all so fascinating. Let's run through the top QBs:

Allen - never could conquer the Chiefs in the playoffs, and then this year lost to Bo freaking Nix. Physically, he might be the most talented QB in the game, but his inability to get it done this year, without Mahomes in his way, is really telling.

Lamar - ESPN ranked the Ravens' roster as better than the Eagles going into 2025, and he still managed to miss the playoffs.

Burrow - basically lives off beating Mahomes in the 2021 AFCCG. Top flight wideouts and can't make the playoffs. Meanwhile Hurts made it with our train wreck of a defense in 2023.

Herbert - don't make me laugh

All of those guys are more talented than Hurts, will put up better stats, etc. But none of them delivered in big moments. It's why in my mind, the QB hierarchy is basically Mahomes by himself, and then let arguments ensue.

With all the bloviating, cherry picking of stats, rank bias, reheating of old arguments and prejudices that circulate through here every day, I am frankly stunned at this simple and, to me, compelling argument.

17 minutes ago, NOTW said:

People often say this.

Then point out that Allen & Burrow aren't winning because of their supporting cast. So...they need talent around them too.

Mahomes got owned by the Bucs & Eagles in the SB when his O line got dominated by the defensive line. He has a legendary HC, great DC and has hadca top TE in Kelce around him. When they've lost a WR, people said it would hurt him losing a good receiver.

Dak & Lamar have had great talent and won absolutely nothing.

Great QBs over the years have had great talent and coaches around them.

That's why I hate that particular argument against Hurts.

Yup. There's not one single QB who has won a SB over the last 25 years without a great team around him. Rodgers could be the only exception and it's debatable.

2 minutes ago, beto_eagles said:

Yup. There's not one single QB who has won a SB over the last 25 years without a great team around him. Rodgers could be the only exception and it's debatable.

Prime Brady and prime Mahomes might not agree with that.

2 hours ago, vikas83 said:

Or carry 2 kickers on the 53, which would be...interesting.

It makes me think of the time Reid referred to Akers as a tinker toy when asked in 99 about carrying Norm Johnson (was it Norm Johnson?) and Akers on the roster at the same time. Glad he did. Was a big Akers fan for a long time.

I think it would be crazy to draft a kicker when they have Elliott locked into the roster. But if they get someone in camp that is incredible, I suppose there are crazier things than having 2 kickers on the roster.

I couldn't imagine the discourse with this Hurts story if McKee had lit up Washington in week 18.

I do think this is a massive season coming up for Hurts and will dictate his future with the team. I think a lot of people gloss over 2024 because they won a Super Bowl, but Saquon running for 2,000+ yards masked a lot of the inefficiencies with the passing game. It helped that Hurts had two of his best games of the year back to back against Washington in the NFCCG and KC in the Super Bowl, but this was still a bottom half passing team. And it's been that way since 2023.

It’s crazy to me that there is a timeline a kicker was not only taken in the first round, but was also in the teens. I wish the internet was bigger back then for all the reactions.

2 hours ago, hukdonfoniks said:

Hurts needs to have a very specific set of circumstances around him in order to succeed. When he has them, he can win the big games. He can play his part well and execute what needs to be executed.

Is he the kind of transformational player that can throw a team on his back and carry them? Haven't seen that yet. Unfortunately not too many of those guys exist, and when they do come along they're usually out of reach to all but the worst teams in the league. We can't crucify Hurts for not being one of them. But it is fair to question if we've seen the maximum he can do, and if it's something we can live with.

If we can get the OL right and chalk up last year to the injury bug, there's no reason we can't be right back in the mix. All the talent is still here. If things don't gel right away though it could be a rough start to the season.

Can we live with a guy whose maximum is going to the playoffs every year, going to multiple Super Bowls where he then plays lights out and wins? Ugh, it's a hell no one should be stuck with.