1. 2017 Wentz was making magic happen with his legs. He was still not the most accurate QB but it wasn't as obvious since receivers were wide open due to defenses being unable to defend an RPO offense with a mobile QB, healthy OL, and talented receivers. It was a perfect recipe for success.

2. Wentz getting injured and losing his ability to turn off script plays into positive plays is, ultimately, the singular event that created the cascading series of events that have led to this awful team.

3. After the SB, we lost all of our coaching talent. Howie and Doug decided to "run it back" with the same roster that was filled with key players who were turning 30. Howie also extended all of the old players on the team which cemented the next half decade in terms of roster.

4. Wentz comes back with no wheels, no RPO, and gets injured again... and another year is wasted and the key guys on the roster are now a year older and officially injury risks. He regresses a bit. 

5. Howie and Doug fail miserably in adding talent through the draft and FA and the roster starts falling apart with injuries because they are so old. Wentz regresses a bit more with no mobility and no coaching.

6. In a last ditch effort to salvage the SB era team they add some speed but Wentz is already in year six, has compound regressions, and has not fixed any of his accuracy issues.

All of these problems... the Wentz injuries and regression, Pederson sucking, Howie sucking... they've all compounded to the point where the talent on the roster isn't good enough to overcome them.

So, to recap, the Wentz injury and regression paired with the refusal/inability of Doug and Howie to reinvent the offense has doomed this team. It's not not salvageable. The entire team needs to be blown up. Wentz and Pederson both need to go.

1 minute ago, phil77 said:

 

So then that would lead me to believe it is a coaching problem over a QB problem wouldn't you?  If that is the case could you realistically get rid of Doug after he "brought" the organization their first super bowl? 

Yes I tend to agree with that. Realistically? Well, isn't this a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of league? Doug's playcalling is horrendous and very UNimaginative....he needs other football minds to surround him....gym shorts is not the answer at DC and he should have brought Defillipo back.....

4 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

1. 2017 Wentz was making magic happen with his legs. He was still not the most accurate QB but it wasn't as obvious since receivers were wide open due to defenses being unable to defend an RPO offense with a mobile QB, healthy OL, and talented receivers. It was a perfect recipe.

2. Wentz getting injured and losing his ability to turn off script plays into positive plays is, ultimately, the singular event that created the cascading series of events that have led to this awful team.

3. After the SB, we lost all of our coaching talent. Howie and Doug decided to "run it back" with the same roster that was filled with key players who were turning 30. Howie also extended all of the old players on the team which cemented the next half decade in terms of roster.

4. Wentz comes back with no wheels, no RPO, and gets injured again... and another year is wasted and the key guys on the roster are now a year older and officially injury risks. He regresses a bit. 

5. Howie and Doug fail miserably in adding talent through the draft and FA and the roster starts falling apart with injuries because they are so old. Wentz regresses a bit more with no mobility and no coaching.

6. In a last ditch effort to salvage the SB era team they add some speed but Wentz is already in year six, has compound regressions, and has not fixed any of his accuracy issues.

All of these problems... the Wentz injuries and regression, Pederson sucking, Howie sucking... they've all compounded to the point where the talent on the roster wasn't good enough to overcome them.

So, to recap, the Wentz injury and regression paired with the refusal/inability of Doug and Howie to reinvent the offense has doomed this team. It's not not salvageable. The entire team needs to be blown up. Wentz and Pederson both need to go.

I like this assessment

11 minutes ago, GeorgeM37 said:

But what if....Doug is just not a good coach overall? He wasn't that great of a QB when he was....just serviceable. Maybe he isn't actually SEEING the mechanical flaws?

He knows and actually Doug takes subtle shots at Carson. 

6 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

1. 2017 Wentz was making magic happen with his legs. He was still not the most accurate QB but it wasn't as obvious since receivers were wide open due to defenses being unable to defend an RPO offense with a mobile QB, healthy OL, and talented receivers. It was a perfect recipe for success.

2. Wentz getting injured and losing his ability to turn off script plays into positive plays is, ultimately, the singular event that created the cascading series of events that have led to this awful team.

3. After the SB, we lost all of our coaching talent. Howie and Doug decided to "run it back" with the same roster that was filled with key players who were turning 30. Howie also extended all of the old players on the team which cemented the next half decade in terms of roster.

4. Wentz comes back with no wheels, no RPO, and gets injured again... and another year is wasted and the key guys on the roster are now a year older and officially injury risks. He regresses a bit. 

5. Howie and Doug fail miserably in adding talent through the draft and FA and the roster starts falling apart with injuries because they are so old. Wentz regresses a bit more with no mobility and no coaching.

6. In a last ditch effort to salvage the SB era team they add some speed but Wentz is already in year six, has compound regressions, and has not fixed any of his accuracy issues.

All of these problems... the Wentz injuries and regression, Pederson sucking, Howie sucking... they've all compounded to the point where the talent on the roster isn't good enough to overcome them.

So, to recap, the Wentz injury and regression paired with the refusal/inability of Doug and Howie to reinvent the offense has doomed this team. It's not not salvageable. The entire team needs to be blown up. Wentz and Pederson both need to go.

Do you think Wentz is done and can’t regain his form under a new coaching staff?

3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

He knows and actually Doug takes subtle shots at Carson. 

If that is true then that falls on coaching. Doesn't need subtle shots he needs to be in his ear....they have to stop coddling this dude or he can get even worse..

25 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

This isn't two games, this is year five. It's also been constant regression since 2017.

Say it again please, for the people in the back.....and yet we are told we are overreacting....

Just now, phil77 said:

Do you think Wentz is done and can’t regain his form under a new coaching staff?

Wentz's only plus attributes as a QB were his arm strength and athleticism. Once he lost the latter the supposed QB guru (Pederson) immediately needed to start developing Wentz's mechanics and mental part of the QB game.

Like I said before, we're five or six years in with Wentz. I have zero interest starting some sort of rehab process on him where he reinvents himself over the course of several years. On top of that, I don't believe Doug could even pull it off. We were sold a counterfeit bill of goods with him. 

So could Wentz ever be good with Pederson? Maybe? But I have my doubts. The most efficient way back from this nightmare is to fire Pederson and Howie immediately and bring in two guys with the chops to rebuild something from scratch.

33 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

1. 2017 Wentz was making magic happen with his legs. He was still not the most accurate QB but it wasn't as obvious since receivers were wide open due to defenses being unable to defend an RPO offense with a mobile QB, healthy OL, and talented receivers. It was a perfect recipe for success.

2. Wentz getting injured and losing his ability to turn off script plays into positive plays is, ultimately, the singular event that created the cascading series of events that have led to this awful team.

3. After the SB, we lost all of our coaching talent. Howie and Doug decided to "run it back" with the same roster that was filled with key players who were turning 30. Howie also extended all of the old players on the team which cemented the next half decade in terms of roster.

4. Wentz comes back with no wheels, no RPO, and gets injured again... and another year is wasted and the key guys on the roster are now a year older and officially injury risks. He regresses a bit. 

5. Howie and Doug fail miserably in adding talent through the draft and FA and the roster starts falling apart with injuries because they are so old. Wentz regresses a bit more with no mobility and no coaching.

6. In a last ditch effort to salvage the SB era team they add some speed but Wentz is already in year six, has compound regressions, and has not fixed any of his accuracy issues.

All of these problems... the Wentz injuries and regression, Pederson sucking, Howie sucking... they've all compounded to the point where the talent on the roster isn't good enough to overcome them.

So, to recap, the Wentz injury and regression paired with the refusal/inability of Doug and Howie to reinvent the offense has doomed this team. It's not not salvageable. The entire team needs to be blown up. Wentz and Pederson both need to go.

I'm out of "reactions" for today but this is spot on.

It’s a little bit of both, player and coach.  But Doug will go first because we don’t have an ‘out’ in Wentz’s contract until after next season I think.  Doug basically has this season to straighten out Wentz and the team.  After an 0-2 start.

24 minutes ago, GeorgeM37 said:

If that is true then that falls on coaching. Doesn't need subtle shots he needs to be in his ear....they have to stop coddling this dude or he can get even worse..

It doesn’t even feel like they’re coddling him anymore considering they drafted a quarterback in the 2nd round. There’s also reports of Doug having his own power struggles with management. It just seems like it’s all a perfect storm of misery. If they keep losing this will be an ugly implosion. 

18 minutes ago, GeorgeM37 said:

Say it again please, for the people in the back.....and yet we are told we are overreacting....

I get it. They still want to believe that the guy the Eagles invested so much in, who has so much talent, is the franchise. Like the thread title says though, time to come clean.

1 hour ago, GeorgeM37 said:

But what if....Doug is just not a good coach overall? He wasn't that great of a QB when he was....just serviceable. Maybe he isn't actually SEEING the mechanical flaws?

I'm sure if we as fans can see the flaws that the coaches can.

I'm 99.9% sure they are telling Carson these things during film study.  If not then they shouldn't be coaching in pee wee football let alone the NFL.  It's obvious that Wentz doesnt look good.

1 hour ago, phil77 said:

 

Wouldn't that be coaching then?  Why didn't Doug bring back DeFilippo when he had a chance if they thought he was vital to Wentz success regardless of what Wentz thought of him?   If Doug is seeing mechanical flaws watching tape why isn't he hammering that home being a ex-quarterback himself? 

 

 

Part of the problem is that all of these coaches from the Green Bay/Holmgren tree all have man crushes on Brett Favre and that gunslinger mentality. From Andy Reid to Doug, every QB they train has to be reckless but brilliant.

45 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

 

Like I said before, we're five or six years in with Wentz. I have zero interest starting some sort of rehab process on him where he reinvents himself over the course of several years. On top of that, I don't believe Doug could even pull it off. We were sold a counterfeit bill of goods with him. 

 

You are right not to believe it. Doug is Howie's yes man. That's why he was hired, not for his coaching acumen.

Doug was the guy that screwed up KC's path to the SB a few years ago.

Anyone blaming coaching for Wentz's regression is stupid.

First of all, Wentz isn't as quick or athletic as he was in 2017. Obviously the knee injury took it's toll on him in that regard. Second, how is coaching going to fix poor decision making and erratic accuracy issues. The guy is in his 5th year in the NFL. He is now being paid 32 million dollars a year. All of the coaching, all of the play calling, all of the coddling Carson in the world isn't going to fix those issues. Could better coaching and play calling, perhaps. It's time for the hold out fans to stop acting as if Wentz is a young developing QB because he isn't anymore.

Let me ask this question. What good will coaching do when Wentz has Goedert completely wide open for a TD and doesn't see him. What good will coaching do when Wentz can't accurately throw a 5 yard pass to a RB. Enough with over analyzing and making excuses for this guy. He needs to be a lot better.

3 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Did anyone catch that interview in the second quarter (I think) where they showed the old footage of Doug and Brett Favre, and the sideline correspondent said that she'd asked Doug if the conversations with Carson were the same kind that they were with Brett. According to her, Doug replied that they were mostly the same, except that (and I'm paraphrasing just a little bit here), as a backup, Doug explained that you could say to the starter, "Why didn't you throw it away?!" after an INT. But as a head coach, you can't go there, because you might turn the player off and that "misery is its own instruction" (or something pretty much exactly to that effect).

To me, this just confirmed a lot of what I posted in this thread earlier: Doug has no balls. He's not teaching, because he does not feel comfortable challenging Carson. He is too weak of a coach to actually get on Wentz's case a little and push bit and point out his mistakes to get his as$ in gear. I try to keep a level head and not get too down on a young player early in his career, so I'm still reserving final judgment on Wentz for at least this season. But I'm really starting to think that Doug has peaked.

You pretty much heard what you wanted to hear and not what was said. Doug told her that he would say things to Favre like, "Dude, throw it away ...or slide." The final quote was simply, "Pain instructs." Clearly in her interview they were talking about being fearless (or reckless in regard to one's own safety) by trying to extend plays and taking more hits. In your defense, the lead in from the booth to her report compared them instead as "strong-armed, gambling quarterbacks."

So there's a reason why as a coach he approaches Wentz' competitive fearlessness with a coaching approach and not that of a player looking out for himself. 

8 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

No like he’s playing well enough to keep his job though. 😂

I'm not going to get in to that. I agree he's not playing well enough right now. But 1) it's only 2 games and 2) the organisation are going to stick with him longer than the fans will. 

8 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I'd still say no. Foles has his own issues that can't be ignored just because he played great for this team's two most important games. He still has yet to play a full season himself, and couldn't beat out Trubiski. If the answer isn't Wentz, then it's someone else entirely.

He has his own issues, sure....mainly injuries and being streaky.  But he never got a fair shot here with Wentz being drafted at #2, despite winning us a superbowl and saving our season the year afterward as well. 

2 minutes ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

He has his own issues, sure....mainly injuries and being streaky.  But he never got a fair shot here with Wentz being drafted at #2, despite winning us a superbowl and saving our season the year afterward as well. 

He got fair shots. The reality is he's just not elite. He was brilliant in 2017 but he's a very streaky QB and was never the answer long team. He's since gone to Jacksonville and couldn't beat out Minshew. And now Trubisky has the job over him in Chicago. There's good reason for why he's been a back up for most of his career. 

9 hours ago, nipples said:

Eh, I’m not sure I’d go that far. Look I love Foles for what he did, but he’s not the guy you make your franchise QB. He is even more hot and cold than Wentz, lucky for us he just happened to be red hot in the playoffs that year. But there is a reason he lost his starting jobs to: Case Keenum, Gardner Minchew, and failed to beat out Trubisky. 

Well, I wouldn't take anything Jeff Fisher does with QB's seriously.  The Jaguars screwed Foles and never gave him a shot.  Chicago was going with Trubisky regardless.  Here, Foles had to deal with idiot Chip Kelly, then when he comes back there's a guy here drafted with the #2 pick so he's never getting a shot no matter what he does (even be superbowl MVP). 

3 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He got fair shots. The reality is he's just not elite. He was brilliant in 2017 but he's a very streaky QB and was never the answer long team. He's since gone to Jacksonville and couldn't beat out Minshew. And now Trubisky has the job over him in Chicago. There's good reason for why he's been a back up for most of his career. 

When was he given a chance to compete against Wentz?  Also, you don't have to be "elite" to start. 

1 minute ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

When was he given a chance to compete against Wentz?  Also, you don't have to be "elite" to start. 

He never should have been given a chance to compete against Wentz. He was brought in as the back up. Wentz was the future and was the organisation's guy. He was never going to be good enough long term. 

6 hours ago, 97is said:

Wentz has been straight up garbage this year. Just like McNabb back in the day, got married had a kid turned to trash on the football field

got paid, now has a family. Perhaps his ambitions lay elsewhere? I dont blame him. You get paid a brinks truck - most of it guaranteed, you do you. Frankly... one more trash game consecutively & i wanna see Hurts.

Ofc coaching plays a role. But Carson looks pretty lifeless on the sidelines..

3 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He never should have been given a chance to compete against Wentz. He was brought in as the back up. Wentz was the future and was the organisation's guy. He was never going to be good enough long term. 

Things can change quickly in the NFL, and this was a unique situation.  Just because someone is "brought in as the backup" doesn't mean they should never get a chance to start, especially if they win the team a superbowl.  No one should be guaranteed a starting spot just because of where they were drafted. 

Does Wentz look like he's "good enough long term"?