Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

I mean the other aspect and the one that probably ultimately means changing QB isn't going to solve everything is that we have the stalest offense in the league and until Doug either takes advice or relinquishes play calling that isn't changing,  teams have been saying they could recognise our plays for 2 seasons now, last season Seattle said they knew it and New England flat out laughed at one point in last season's game because Doug ran the same play from the same formation twice in a row, like he'd pressed triangle by accident after a play ended on Madden and forgot the button for audibles.

Our screen game is embarassing, literally everyone ends in a tackle for loss as the linebacker gets to the receiver before the ball.

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I hope this is sarcasm.

If you start 0-2, history says you have about a .125 chance of making the playoffs and based on average you'll end up with somewhere around 5 or 6 wins, you can try and buck the odds but I'd suggest if you can't beat Washington from 17 points up or LA on the East Coast, you aren't beating too many of 49ers, Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks, Saints or Packers either, no team is going to tank, but if you asked me would I rather go.500 or get a top ten pick, I know which way I'd lean.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

Honestly, a great adjustment for Carson would just be to let the Superman style heroics go and just be efficient with the football.  He doesn't have to save every broken play.  Check down and move on.  This part rests solely on Doug getting into his head a little.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

17 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

If you start 0-2, history says you have about a .125 chance of making the playoffs and based on average you'll end up with somewhere around 5 or 6 wins, you can try and buck the odds but I'd suggest if you can't beat Washington from 17 points up or LA on the East Coast, you aren't beating too many of 49ers, Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks, Saints or Packers either, no team is going to tank, but if you asked me would I rather go.500 or get a top ten pick, I know which way I'd lean.

Yeah I mean I know it is a long season and I know a lot can change but... I can't see them beating the 49ers, Ravens, Seahawks, Saints and Packers. They may beat the Steelers but then I think they split with the Cowboys. It is a lot of ifs, buts and maybes but this is going to be a long hard season and I thought that even before slipping up week one. My estimate is that we aren't going to make the play offs and we will be lucky to win 7 games but I guess we shall see.

[EazyEaglez]

11 hours ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

0-2 I want Lawrence I’m done 

it’s make or break this week 

Funny I asked that if the Eagles got a top 5 pick would they take another quarterback in a jest, but it seems like some people really want that, 😂

[nipples]

29 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Funny I asked that if the Eagles got a top 5 pick would they take another quarterback in a jest, but it seems like some people really want that, 😂

I would say yes, but Lawrence just screams bust to me. Want no part of wasting a top 5 pick on him. 

[birdman#12]

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Honestly, a great adjustment for Carson would just be to let the Superman style heroics go and just be efficient with the football.  He doesn't have to save every broken play.  Check down and move on.  This part rests solely on Doug getting into his head a little.

Agreed......part of the persona of a young QB is the thought that he can make something out of everything.....and then puts his health and the ball at risk. Situational recognition can be a slow learning process and we're seeing it with wentz.

3rd and very long or being in field goal range are just 2 examples of times that discretion is the better part of valor.  Learn to play the field position game when things aren't clicking.  I think Wentz competitiveness can can hinder this recognition....but Pedersen and Taylor have to keep preaching it....but they also have to improve the play calling.....dropping back 56 times against a stellar pass rush with a banged up O-line is just stupid.

[EazyEaglez]

3 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Honestly, a great adjustment for Carson would just be to let the Superman style heroics go and just be efficient with the football.  He doesn't have to save every broken play.  Check down and move on.  This part rests solely on Doug getting into his head a little.

Everyone who tried to get in Carson’s head is gone. Hero ball is who Carson is. Frankly this will all play itself out, because if he keeps on trying to be a hero he’s going to get hurt again and eventually he’s going to be out the league.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

27 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Everyone who tried to get in Carson’s head is gone. Hero ball is who Carson is. Frankly this will all play itself out, because if he keeps on trying to be a hero he’s going to get hurt again and eventually he’s going to be out the league.

I wonder if it has anything to do with playing for such a dominant team in College, North Dakota look mismatched in their conference, they've won it 9 years in a row and the NCAA Divisional 8 years out of 9, losing 8 games total. Maybe he rarely had to look for the dump off pass?  The number of times on film break down there's a receiver all on his own out wide within a few yards of scrimmage is odd.

Honestly though, if you look at their college numbers side by side with identifiers stripped out, you'd be hard pressed to see what made Carson Wentz a consensus top 5 pick and Easton Stick a guy who might get picked up as a UDFA before he went 5th round, as far as I can see it's 4 inches of height, and now Trey Lance is making them both look pedestrian.

 

[eglz1]

4 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Honestly, a great adjustment for Carson would just be to let the Superman style heroics go and just be efficient with the football.  He doesn't have to save every broken play.  Check down and move on.  This part rests solely on Doug getting into his head a little.

This is something about Carson that has bothered me and I'm a Carson fan. A few years ago - 2018 I think he was asked to stop with the hero ball crap,  take what's there and take care of himself. He replied that nope, that is how he's played and how he's going to continue to play. I don't have a citation but clearly remember it. So maybe we shouldn't be surprised that he hasn't changed his style; he doesn't want to. He has patterned his game after Favre to an extent but Favre was an iron man, Wentz is not.

[EaglesRocker97]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Everyone who tried to get in Carson’s head is gone.

Yup. That, to me, is the overarching problem. There's no authority managing Wentz and correcting his repetitive mistakes. There's no one demanding better from him as player and a leader. He's his own boss. "Big Balls Doug" either never existed or has been castrated.

[birdman#12]

One other factor is that Wentz does better when he's not dropping back 500-600 times a year.....essentially, benefitting from a solid run game, which most QBs do.

For him to drop back 56 times on Sunday was ridiculous.  They didn't try any misdirection plays, double screens, quick slants.....and they ran the ball 8-9 times in the first half.

All these things that have been said about Wentz holding the ball too long, the hero mentality and locking on a receiver are true......but Pedersen knew the skins were a solid pass rush team, and he knew his offensive line could struggle.....but he dropped Wentz back 56 times vs 17 rushing plays.  Washington's game plan was to pin back their ears and rush like crazy and dare the eagles to adjust, which they never did.  That's on Pedersen.  

Wentz is a smart kid....he's not going to say in an interview that yeah, he needs to throw the ball away or give up on a play. But he could still learn to do it.....he just has to want to, and realize that "learn to live another play" is not just a cliche......

If Pedersen doesn't change his game plans going forward.......it's going to be a long year.

[315Eagles]

6 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I mean the other aspect and the one that probably ultimately means changing QB isn't going to solve everything is that we have the stalest offense in the league and until Doug either takes advice or relinquishes play calling that isn't changing,  teams have been saying they could recognise our plays for 2 seasons now, last season Seattle said they knew it and New England flat out laughed at one point in last season's game because Doug ran the same play from the same formation twice in a row, like he'd pressed triangle by accident after a play ended on Madden and forgot the button for audibles.

Our screen game is embarassing, literally everyone ends in a tackle for loss as the linebacker gets to the receiver before the ball.

If you start 0-2, history says you have about a .125 chance of making the playoffs and based on average you'll end up with somewhere around 5 or 6 wins, you can try and buck the odds but I'd suggest if you can't beat Washington from 17 points up or LA on the East Coast, you aren't beating too many of 49ers, Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks, Saints or Packers either, no team is going to tank, but if you asked me would I rather go.500 or get a top ten pick, I know which way I'd lean.

Seen any article today that many around the league feel Doug has reached his limit.  Not sure if that means he's running out of time or that he wont evolve as a HC.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

24 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

For him to drop back 56 times on Sunday was ridiculous.  They didn't try any misdirection plays, double screens, quick slants.....and they ran the ball 8-9 times in the first half.

My biggest frustration with Doug tends to be the run game. 

Look this is always going to be a pass first offense and it should be too. Wentz can be special and the NFL is a pass heavy league. 

But you need to stick with the run game to keep defenses honest and for the PA to do any good at all. It doesn't have to be a great run game, we knew Sunday was going to be a slog and the run game showed nothing. But going away from the run game completely just let's the defense tee off on the QB.

[315Eagles]

5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Funny I asked that if the Eagles got a top 5 pick would they take another quarterback in a jest, but it seems like some people really want that, 😂

After taking a few days to relax, calm down and really think about it, I'd rather they replace Doug before Carson.  

All the little problems that Wentz has is partly Doug's fault.  He needs to make sure he's  correcting these things or else do something about it.  Wentz is good but he's not Brady or Rodgers.  He's not above criticism.

Find a HC who will hold Wentz accountable and fix these issues.  The talent for Wentz is there....its obvious.

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I wonder if it has anything to do with playing for such a dominant team in College, North Dakota look mismatched in their conference, they've won it 9 years in a row and the NCAA Divisional 8 years out of 9, losing 8 games total. Maybe he rarely had to look for the dump off pass?  The number of times on film break down there's a receiver all on his own out wide within a few yards of scrimmage is odd.

Honestly though, if you look at their college numbers side by side with identifiers stripped out, you'd be hard pressed to see what made Carson Wentz a consensus top 5 pick and Easton Stick a guy who might get picked up as a UDFA before he went 5th round, as far as I can see it's 4 inches of height, and now Trey Lance is making them both look pedestrian.

 

I do think Carson’s college days have a lot to do with how he acts in the pros. I think in college he was used to being the most athletic or at least close to the most athletic person on the field, but he needs to realize 300 plus pound men run faster than he does in the NFL. His level of college allowed him to get away with mistakes NFL players can capitalize on. His very early success probably didn’t help the matter either. What do you say to a guy who everyone said was the MVP in his second season? I can only hope that someone in that building grows some stones and tell Carson the truth. His reckless play gets him in trouble. He needs to learn how to manage the game better. On a side node isn’t it true Carson was also injured in college as well? So even in a division he dominated he he still did things that led to injuries. 

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, 315Eagles said:

After taking a few days to relax, calm down and really think about it, I'd rather they replace Doug before Carson.  

All the little problems that Wentz has is partly Doug's fault.  He needs to make sure he's  correcting these things or else do something about it.  Wentz is good but he's not Brady or Rodgers.  He's not above criticism.

Find a HC who will hold Wentz accountable and fix these issues.  The talent for Wentz is there....its obvious.

Finding a good coach is as difficult as finding a new quarterback. I will state after what’s been happening with Doug, this coaching staff, and the front office I wouldn’t be surprised if Doug were on a little bit of a hot seat. 

[FitzIsAtTheAirport]

On 9/17/2020 at 1:33 PM, dawkins4prez said:

Soooo, McNabb > Wentz?

He did warn everyone to "pump the brakes" but most didn't listen.

[nipples]

1 hour ago, 315Eagles said:

After taking a few days to relax, calm down and really think about it, I'd rather they replace Doug before Carson.  

All the little problems that Wentz has is partly Doug's fault.  He needs to make sure he's  correcting these things or else do something about it.  Wentz is good but he's not Brady or Rodgers.  He's not above criticism.

Find a HC who will hold Wentz accountable and fix these issues.  The talent for Wentz is there....its obvious.

Problem is that you can’t just ignore all the injuries had. Whether some of them were "fluke” injuries or not, they still add up and take their toll on the body over the course of a career. If he gets hurt again this season, I don’t think you can realistically count on him being here for the long term. He could either retire early after so many injuries like Luck, or he could just be another Sam Bradford who just could never stay on the field. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

32 minutes ago, nipples said:

Problem is that you can’t just ignore all the injuries had. Whether some of them were "fluke” injuries or not, they still add up and take their toll on the body over the course of a career. If he gets hurt again this season, I don’t think you can realistically count on him being here for the long term. He could either retire early after so many injuries like Luck, or he could just be another Sam Bradford who just could never stay on the field. 

It is a tricky one that's for sure. I mean the positive is that the injuries have all been very different. Wasn't it a rib injury then the ACL and then the back? But I do agree they can all add up and wear down the body. 

[EagleVA]

10 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Our screen game is embarassing, literally everyone ends in a tackle for loss as the linebacker gets to the receiver before the ball.

Trade him for a LB!!

I mean, we do have the worst LBing group in the league........they're pitiful.

I guess it always goes back to Howie.

[GeorgeM37]

On 9/16/2020 at 9:19 AM, EazyEaglez said:

I know some of you Wentz apologists cited Dan Orlovsky over and over again as to why everyone was foolish to dare question Carson. Where are you guys now that Danny boy ripped your ginger Jesus? You guys still think his work is sound or have you turned your back on him?

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/dan-orlovsky-rips-carson-wentz-says-hes-sole-reason-eagles-lost?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs

Not one lie was detected in this write up....only a few of us are even willing to admit that wentz was a MAJOR reason they lost the game....

[GeorgeM37]

5 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

My biggest frustration with Doug tends to be the run game. 

Look this is always going to be a pass first offense and it should be too. Wentz can be special and the NFL is a pass heavy league. 

But you need to stick with the run game to keep defenses honest and for the PA to do any good at all. It doesn't have to be a great run game, we knew Sunday was going to be a slog and the run game showed nothing. But going away from the run game completely just let's the defense tee off on the QB.

This has been my point for the past five years..its like watching AR all over again.....with the exception of the superbowl run it really is like watching the Reid era all over again...which I pretty much despised....

[McNabbIsDone]

On 9/13/2020 at 11:33 PM, downundermike said:

What are you gonna say when we beat the Rams next week ??

    We're in, "The Twilight Zone."     

    

[315Eagles]

8 hours ago, nipples said:

Problem is that you can’t just ignore all the injuries had. Whether some of them were "fluke” injuries or not, they still add up and take their toll on the body over the course of a career. If he gets hurt again this season, I don’t think you can realistically count on him being here for the long term. He could either retire early after so many injuries like Luck, or he could just be another Sam Bradford who just could never stay on the field. 

That's a good point but part of his injury history is from his reckless style.  You think Belichick would let him do the things he's doing?  I'd love to know what Doug and the coaches are telling him about his flaws.  

[Ace Nova]

Say his name!

 

 

Nick Foles