5 hours ago, VeeMak said:

Howie is a capologist.  That’s it.  Zero football experience in his entire life.  Never put on pads, never took a snap. Wasn’t even a towel boy and never coached. 

He's not even that anymore.  Cap hell the next 2 years, bad contracts to aging veterans who are now collecting paychecks for doing nothing and no room to sign players next offseason to make up for his bad drafting.  He's got to go.  There are other teams that manage the cap and make good trades and sign good players.  There are people on his staff that probably have learned his methods for the cap in the years when he was still good at it.  

A new GM needs to come in and blow this team up top to bottom.  Scouting, personnel, medical, conditioning, purge the roster and draft well while building up more cap space.  There's zero chance Howie can rebuild the roster through the draft to address upgrades needed for aging vets to the O line, D line, LBs, secondary, and even WR which is still a need.

14 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I'm not sure why people continue to root for a player on the team to fail. JJAW hasn't made any plays so far this season. His QB was playing poorly in each game he played and JJAW was hurt in the 3rd game. 

 

I mentioned in another thread that I hope Wentz learned something today by being forced to trust all the guys on the field.

Nobody wants him to fail we are just tired of seeing him fail on this team and players drafted behind him thriving. 

9 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t see people rooting for or hoping this kid fails. The reality is he’s just not good and he is another draft failure by Howie. Everyone would rather he were out there balling like others in his draft class. Heck just show some signs of life, but he’s not even looking better than practice squad players on his own team and that’s incredibly frustrating to see actually. Do you think he’s played well so far?

That's a very fair question. Basically, we have nothing thus far this year to use to say he's been good or terrible. It's disappointing that he isn't getting thrown to (and obviously that he missed a game with an injury now as well). So we have his rookie year to use for the time being. He clearly had his struggles. He made mistakes. He had the big drop and a couple other big mistakes early last year that can make a QB look real bad. I think Wentz was hesitant to look his way moving forward. The word on the street is he can't run routes and never gets separation. The tape tells a different story. If you watch the pass plays where JJAW was out there, he was able to get separation and also run routes. He showed improvement in the areas he needed to improve. He needs to show more, but most importantly, he needs Wentz to trust him. Here's some video of JJAW last year that is pretty interesting if you're going to claim he never gets open, never gets separation, etc...

Here's where I stand on JJAW. He was drafted to be groomed as the successor to Jeffery when he is gone. At the time, it was expected that Jeffery would play out that contract he signed with the Eagles. So that would give JJAW 3 years of learning. That was the Eagles' plan for him. The plan was altered out of necessity last year with the injuries at WR. So he was thrust into a role the Eagles hadn't fully prepared him for. Early mistakes happened and for whatever reason, Wentz preferred other options. He did make a few clutch catches in the crucial 4 game stretch to end the regular season. So that was something to build on (we would hope). Then after what we were told was an excellent training camp for JJAW, it was reasonable to expect some production from him with Jeffery still out. I haven't re-watched those early games because (reasons of disgust), so I can't tell you I studied how JJAW played. We do know Wentz wasn't playing well. The end result is no production from JJAW. The question remains: do we need to get JJAW more involved in order to see what we have or is his lack of involvement all on him? I think at this point you just throw out September and we get everybody involved the rest of the way and see what happens.

When the moment comes and Jeffery is no longer on the team, if JJAW isn't ready to take over, then this was a botched pick. We keep comparing him to DK Metcalf who is clearly the better player at this time. Metcalf is playing like a guy that should have been picked in the top 10. If he can stay healthy, he'll probably have a great career (at least as long as Wilson is throwing to him). I kind of expect JJAW to have an Ed McCaffery type career --- a guy that takes awhile to find his niche, but once he finds it, he thrives. 

SMH

Defend Whiteside all you want. Look at the updated stats on the first post in this thread

Eagles have 7 WRs on their active roster. Hard to think they will hold on to 8 when Watkins comes back from the IR. So with that said, Whiteside better be the guy they let walk. Think about it, Whiteside has zero trade value and production. If they want him that bad, they can waive him and throw him on the practice squad when he clears waivers lol. Even then I wouldnt want him on the team. If we let any other WR walk, they will likely be claimed

cut this guy yesterday.

If they had just gone with the most purely talented WR on the board in round 2 in consecutive years in which they badly needed a WR, we’d be starting DJ Chark and DK Metcalf right now.  Our most recent first round pick could have addressed a different need.  And I’m pretty sure everyone might have a different opinion of Wentz.  

@brkmsn

JJAW can't get any catches with all the starting WRs & Goedert hurt, just like last year. 

Late round rookies and practice squad guys are stepping in to make catches. There's no defense for JJAW. He does absolutely nothing and it's pathetic. 

37 minutes ago, NOTW said:

@brkmsn

JJAW can't get any catches with all the starting WRs & Goedert hurt, just like last year. 

Late round rookies and practice squad guys are stepping in to make catches. There's no defense for JJAW. He does absolutely nothing and it's pathetic. 

The sample size is small this season and your reaction is, IMO, an overreaction. Tell me what guys are lighting it up at WR and maybe I'll be forced to agree ...

 

I enjoyed the Fulgham TD catch and all, but that wasn't anything Mack Hollins didn't do as a rookie:

Yeah ... we were all excited about that back then ...

If JJAW plays yesterday, then chances are that Fulgham wouldn't have played. 

37 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

The sample size is small this season and your reaction is, IMO, an overreaction. Tell me what guys are lighting it up at WR and maybe I'll be forced to agree ...

 

I enjoyed the Fulgham TD catch and all, but that wasn't anything Mack Hollins didn't do as a rookie:

Yeah ... we were all excited about that back then ...

Yeah, it’s one plays. But it’s still one more play than JJAW had ever made. That’s the sad reality of our 2nd round pick

34 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

The sample size is small this season and your reaction is, IMO, an overreaction. Tell me what guys are lighting it up at WR and maybe I'll be forced to agree ...

 

I enjoyed the Fulgham TD catch and all, but that wasn't anything Mack Hollins didn't do as a rookie:

Yeah ... we were all excited about that back then ...

He only had 10 catches last year, and zero this year. A 2nd round player with a depleted WR group from injuries. They're grabbing practice squad guys and throwing them out there, no practice chemistry with Wentz. 

The excuses for JJAW are pathetic. Yeah Fulgham can be compared to Hollins. Burnett made catches his first game off the practice squad. Ward last year and this year is making plays. Reagor as a rookie with no preseason made plays. No one's saying any WR on this team is "lighting it up."  But the bar is set so low for a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year that he's being compared to no-names making a catch or 2. That's how embarrassing JJAW is.

 

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Here's where I stand on JJAW. He was drafted to be groomed as the successor to Jeffery when he is gone. At the time, it was expected that Jeffery would play out that contract he signed with the Eagles. So that would give JJAW 3 years of learning. That was the Eagles' plan for him.

That may well have been the plan for him to come along over that time till he takes over the #1 spot but I assure you the plan wasn’t for him to sit on the sidelines and produce Absolutely nothing over his first three years either. You don’t draft someone in the second round to only start contributing 3 years later.

Yeah rookies may not play at a high level but they should be flashing and contributing, especially high picks. The reality is that JJAW was so terrible despite all that playing time, that the Eagles drafted 3 other WRs this year Including the first. I assure you if JJAW has even moderately shown something, the Eagles don’t force all those picks - they have plenty of other holes to fill as well. The WR situation (including JJAW) was putrid going into the offseason. 

7 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

Yeah, it’s one plays. But it’s still one more play than JJAW had ever made. That’s the sad reality of our 2nd round pick

He didn't make a lot of plays last year, but he did make some plays. Now all of a sudden he made no plays. 

7 hours ago, NOTW said:

He only had 10 catches last year, and zero this year. A 2nd round player with a depleted WR group from injuries. They're grabbing practice squad guys and throwing them out there, no practice chemistry with Wentz. 

The excuses for JJAW are pathetic. Yeah Fulgham can be compared to Hollins. Burnett made catches his first game off the practice squad. Ward last year and this year is making plays. Reagor as a rookie with no preseason made plays. No one's saying any WR on this team is "lighting it up."  But the bar is set so low for a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year that he's being compared to no-names making a catch or 2. That's how embarrassing JJAW is.

 

Yes. He has zero catches this year. In the 1st game, Wentz was holding the ball too long, trying to establish the deep passing game while our O-line struggled to block. It was a mess. In the second game, the game plan was to get rid of the ball quickly. Wentz didn't go through progressions and focused on his primary target. In week 3, JJAW was hurt and week 4 DNP. I think JJAW was targeted twice so far (once in the endzone that was picked off and another time where the pass was batted at the LOS). I understand your frustration with his "zero catches" thus far, but that doesn't mean he's garbage. It means he hasn't been thrown to. There's a difference. If you're going to claim that he doesn't get open or create separation, then show me video from this year proving your case. I posted video from last year (in this thread) showing that he did indeed get open / get separation. The QB chose other targets. 

If JJAW gets thrown to and starts dropping everything, I'll jump on your bandwagon. But at times when DJax, Jeffery, Goedert, Ertz, Sanders, Reagor (in whatever combination) are on the field, JJAW probably isn't Wentz' 3rd or 4th look. 

6 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

That may well have been the plan for him to come along over that time till he takes over the #1 spot but I assure you the plan wasn’t for him to sit on the sidelines and produce Absolutely nothing over his first three years either. You don’t draft someone in the second round to only start contributing 3 years later.

Yeah rookies may not play at a high level but they should be flashing and contributing, especially high picks. The reality is that JJAW was so terrible despite all that playing time, that the Eagles drafted 3 other WRs this year Including the first. I assure you if JJAW has even moderately shown something, the Eagles don’t force all those picks - they have plenty of other holes to fill as well. The WR situation (including JJAW) was putrid going into the offseason. 

The Eagles drafted 3 WRs known for speed. Reagor was polished enough to contribute right away, although he received most TC work being groomed to replace Jackson. Hightower and Watkins were drafted to add more depth with speed since 2018 and 2019 showed what happens when you don't have that. Once again, the injuries have hit this team hard with Jeffery not back, Jackson, Reagor, Watkins, JJAW, and Goedert all out Sunday night. I thought Wentz played a good game. He had no choice but to trust who was out there. SF did a good job taking Ertz away, so the young guys had to be ready. I'm hoping Wentz grows from this --- he was in the same position the last month of last year. He needs to get all his targets involved (game permitting). McNabb had a lot of forgettable WRs during his career, but he still never "ignored" anybody. This is an area Wentz needs to work on. Sunday night he was forced to and the team won. 

12 hours ago, brkmsn said:

That's a very fair question. Basically, we have nothing thus far this year to use to say he's been good or terrible. It's disappointing that he isn't getting thrown to (and obviously that he missed a game with an injury now as well). So we have his rookie year to use for the time being. He clearly had his struggles. He made mistakes. He had the big drop and a couple other big mistakes early last year that can make a QB look real bad. I think Wentz was hesitant to look his way moving forward. The word on the street is he can't run routes and never gets separation. The tape tells a different story. If you watch the pass plays where JJAW was out there, he was able to get separation and also run routes. He showed improvement in the areas he needed to improve. He needs to show more, but most importantly, he needs Wentz to trust him. Here's some video of JJAW last year that is pretty interesting if you're going to claim he never gets open, never gets separation, etc...

Here's where I stand on JJAW. He was drafted to be groomed as the successor to Jeffery when he is gone. At the time, it was expected that Jeffery would play out that contract he signed with the Eagles. So that would give JJAW 3 years of learning. That was the Eagles' plan for him. The plan was altered out of necessity last year with the injuries at WR. So he was thrust into a role the Eagles hadn't fully prepared him for. Early mistakes happened and for whatever reason, Wentz preferred other options. He did make a few clutch catches in the crucial 4 game stretch to end the regular season. So that was something to build on (we would hope). Then after what we were told was an excellent training camp for JJAW, it was reasonable to expect some production from him with Jeffery still out. I haven't re-watched those early games because (reasons of disgust), so I can't tell you I studied how JJAW played. We do know Wentz wasn't playing well. The end result is no production from JJAW. The question remains: do we need to get JJAW more involved in order to see what we have or is his lack of involvement all on him? I think at this point you just throw out September and we get everybody involved the rest of the way and see what happens.

When the moment comes and Jeffery is no longer on the team, if JJAW isn't ready to take over, then this was a botched pick. We keep comparing him to DK Metcalf who is clearly the better player at this time. Metcalf is playing like a guy that should have been picked in the top 10. If he can stay healthy, he'll probably have a great career (at least as long as Wilson is throwing to him). I kind of expect JJAW to have an Ed McCaffery type career --- a guy that takes awhile to find his niche, but once he finds it, he thrives. 

I don't know what's worse...what JJAW has become or the belief that the Eagles actually planned to draft someone in the 2nd round to learn for 3 years before becoming a possession WR.

Did you seriously just compare JJAW to a former all-pro WR who got on a HOF ballot?  Seriously?

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

He didn't make a lot of plays last year, but he did make some plays. Now all of a sudden he made no plays. 

Yes. He has zero catches this year. In the 1st game, Wentz was holding the ball too long, trying to establish the deep passing game while our O-line struggled to block. It was a mess. In the second game, the game plan was to get rid of the ball quickly. Wentz didn't go through progressions and focused on his primary target. In week 3, JJAW was hurt and week 4 DNP. I think JJAW was targeted twice so far (once in the endzone that was picked off and another time where the pass was batted at the LOS). I understand your frustration with his "zero catches" thus far, but that doesn't mean he's garbage. It means he hasn't been thrown to. There's a difference. If you're going to claim that he doesn't get open or create separation, then show me video from this year proving your case. I posted video from last year (in this thread) showing that he did indeed get open / get separation. The QB chose other targets. 

If JJAW gets thrown to and starts dropping everything, I'll jump on your bandwagon. But at times when DJax, Jeffery, Goedert, Ertz, Sanders, Reagor (in whatever combination) are on the field, JJAW probably isn't Wentz' 3rd or 4th look. 

I'm not going to waste time finding videos, the guy hasn't done anything while other receivers are performing.  Period.  You put zero catches in quotes as if it's not true.  It's a fact, the guy has 0 receptions.  I don't get why bother defending him, are you his relative?  The argument about the starting receivers is null when both last year and this year there are periods where all or most of the starting WRs and TEs are out and JJAW still sucks and isn't an option for a QB desperate to find someone to throw to.  You really can't get around the fact that practice squad guys with no chemistry with the QB or familiarity in the offense are stepping up making plays and a 2nd year guy in the system and a 2nd round prospect can't make a catch.  And earlier you said a 3 year project?  You don't draft someone in the 2nd round as a 3 year project that's ridiculous.

You've moved on from defending Jason Peters now that he sucks this year and is injured (again) and are choosing to defend a scrub WR with no catches.  Interesting choice.  

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I don't know what's worse...what JJAW has become or the belief that the Eagles actually planned to draft someone in the 2nd round to learn for 3 years before becoming a possession WR.

Did you seriously just compare JJAW to a former all-pro WR who got on a HOF ballot?  Seriously?

Right?  

4 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I'm not going to waste time finding videos

You don't need to.  This is all you need to know.  Compare that to one Metcalf game against us in the playoffs last year.  7 catches, 160 yards and a TD

Yeah, there's really no explaining away JJ's lack of production given our dire WR situation and needs over the past 2 seasons. He was on the field a lot last year, and his production was utterly dreadful. Even @brkmsn's youtube videos show him "open" but still pretty tightly covered. He wasn't wide open or burning anyone even in the few "highlights" you could find of him. There's just no solid defense you can make for him when he is outperformed by street free agents on a consistent basis. Of course we all hope he turns it around and doesn't become a wasted second rounder, there's just no way I can say I'm optimistic about that happening given what we've see so far.

6 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I think JJAW was targeted twice so far (once in the endzone that was picked off and another time where the pass was batted at the LOS).

The batted pass at the LOS is a very generous interpretation of a key 3rd down drop. I definitely remember that. 

To say the dude has been disappointing to date is an understatement. His career had more lowlights than highlights. Like everyone said, we all hope he turns it around because that helps the Eagles long-term. But let’s also not pretend that having next to no production from a 2nd round pick despite ample playing time at a position of desperate need is nothing to worry about. We don’t need to wait till 2025 to call out what he has done or not done on the field.

What's there to track?

3 minutes ago, greend said:

What's there to track?

our growing displeasure 

On 9/14/2020 at 11:43 AM, philafan4o8 said:

Where in the world is JJ Arcega-Whiteside?

 

I will use this topic to post Whiteside's playcount and "production" (or lack thereof).

• "Great Off-season" according to everyone in the Eagles Organization
• Week 1 @ Washington: 28 Snaps (41%) - 0 Targets - Zero Production
• Week 2 vs LA Rams: 16 Snaps (23%) - 2 Targets - 1 Drop - Zero Production
• Before Week 3: Doug Pederson says Eagles will rely on Whiteside more these next few weeks
• Week 3 vs Bengals: 18 Snaps (20%) - 0 Targets - Zero Production
• Week 4 @ 49ers: 0 Snaps ("Hurt") - 0 Targets - Zero Production

 

Week 4 Notes:

• DK Metcalf 2020 Stats: 16 Recs - 403 Rec Yards - 3 TDs (Whiteside Career "Stats": 10 Recs - 169 Rec Yards - 1 Lucky TD)
• Whiteside has failed to record a catch in 12 of his 20 careers games
• Travis Fulgham was promoted from practice squad 1 day before game with 49ers
  • 3 Targets - 2 Catches - 57 Rec Yards - 1 TD (42 Yard TD)
• Rookie WR John Hightowner
  • 2 Targets - 2 Catches - 22 Rec Yards
• Adrian Killins Jr
  • 1 Target - 1 Catch - 2 Rec Yards (still one more catch than Whiteside all season)

I love this thread and that picture. What the F is going on here? 

19 hours ago, brkmsn said:

That's a very fair question. Basically, we have nothing thus far this year to use to say he's been good or terrible. It's disappointing that he isn't getting thrown to (and obviously that he missed a game with an injury now as well). So we have his rookie year to use for the time being. He clearly had his struggles. He made mistakes. He had the big drop and a couple other big mistakes early last year that can make a QB look real bad. I think Wentz was hesitant to look his way moving forward. The word on the street is he can't run routes and never gets separation. The tape tells a different story. If you watch the pass plays where JJAW was out there, he was able to get separation and also run routes. He showed improvement in the areas he needed to improve. He needs to show more, but most importantly, he needs Wentz to trust him. Here's some video of JJAW last year that is pretty interesting if you're going to claim he never gets open, never gets separation, etc...

Here's where I stand on JJAW. He was drafted to be groomed as the successor to Jeffery when he is gone. At the time, it was expected that Jeffery would play out that contract he signed with the Eagles. So that would give JJAW 3 years of learning. That was the Eagles' plan for him. The plan was altered out of necessity last year with the injuries at WR. So he was thrust into a role the Eagles hadn't fully prepared him for. Early mistakes happened and for whatever reason, Wentz preferred other options. He did make a few clutch catches in the crucial 4 game stretch to end the regular season. So that was something to build on (we would hope). Then after what we were told was an excellent training camp for JJAW, it was reasonable to expect some production from him with Jeffery still out. I haven't re-watched those early games because (reasons of disgust), so I can't tell you I studied how JJAW played. We do know Wentz wasn't playing well. The end result is no production from JJAW. The question remains: do we need to get JJAW more involved in order to see what we have or is his lack of involvement all on him? I think at this point you just throw out September and we get everybody involved the rest of the way and see what happens.

When the moment comes and Jeffery is no longer on the team, if JJAW isn't ready to take over, then this was a botched pick. We keep comparing him to DK Metcalf who is clearly the better player at this time. Metcalf is playing like a guy that should have been picked in the top 10. If he can stay healthy, he'll probably have a great career (at least as long as Wilson is throwing to him). I kind of expect JJAW to have an Ed McCaffery type career --- a guy that takes awhile to find his niche, but once he finds it, he thrives. 

Look bud in 19 games of work the kid has 10 receptions and 24 targets. That’s not defendable no is him maximizing his opportunities. Furthermore if Howie thinks it’s a good idea to spend a 2nd round pick to replace a player he just gave an extension to then he’s a terrible GM. That is a complete waste of a resource to draft a guy to be a replacement when there are several positions on this roster that could have used a 2nd round level talent. Of course I’m not surprised after all Hurts is virtually the same waste of a pick. 

21 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

I love this thread and that picture. What the F is going on here? 

Getting babied by his momma. 

1 hour ago, 20dawk4life said:

I love this thread and that picture. What the F is going on here? 

That's brkmsn protecting him from criticism.