Barnett is far from a bust.

[Green_Guinness]

14 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

People throw around the bust label waaay too liberally.

He is not a bust. He is a solid starter but not a game changer / impact player. Yes that is short of expectations vs draft position but he still contributes and produces. To me, that is not ideal but something you can live with.
 

Someone like a JJAW on the other hand who just doesn’t belong on the field....that is a bust. Sidney Jones with his inability to stay on the field was a bust. Andre Dillard (based on poor play per Training Camp reports) may be headed that way as well but too early to say.

I think this is most of the problem with people's opinions concerning Barnett.  Honestly, 2017 doesn't seem like it was a good draft class overall.  Sure, there are some standout players like Mahomes, McCaffrey, Jamal Adams, etc., but looking at the 1st round of players and the stats they've put up so far the majority of them would fall into that category of being solid without being a game changer or impact player.  Here's some other DEs that were drafted in the 1st after Barnett (16.5 career sacks):  Jonathan Allen (16.5 sacks in 2 more games played), Takkarist McKinley (17.5 sacks in 9 more games played),  Taco Charlton (10 sacks in 1 more game played).  Even the #3 overall pick, Solomon Thomas, with 6 sacks in 9 more games played.  The only ones who you could say have been impact players are Myles Garrett with 35.5 sacks and TJ Watt with 38 sacks, though he's a 3-4 LB so he was never in our plans.  

You could say we could have taken a DB.  Still available at #14 was S Malik Hooker (7 INTs), CB Marlon Humphrey (8 INTs), CB Tre'Davious White (12 INTs).  So you could say most of the teams who drafted in that first round in 2017 didn't get the game changing impact player they were hoping for.  It's just how things are and yes, some are getting too caught up in the draft position.

 

[Portyansky]

I need to see consistency from him. And not get injured. Avery I have been saying since we traded for him, Gym Shorts needs to play him at his strengths. He did that this game. The rest of the dline has really started to gel. Sweat has been playing his best ball, and I suspect he will only get better.

[kentwo]

I'd rather have Barnett over Taco Charlton. 

Taco and Harris were taken shortly after Barnett. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/former-first-round-pick-at-crossroads-with-dolphins

[VaBeach_Eagle]

6 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Derek Barnett has taken a lot of abuse on these boards.

If he did nothing else besides the NFCCG Strip-sack and the Super Bowl fumble recovery, I'd never consider him a bust. Those two things alone made his pick worthwhile. 

[NOTW]

Barnett might be the new Brandon Graham.  1st round pick that took several years to develop into a decent starter but not a star player.  He needs a star DE on the opposite side which would be a good focus for the next draft.

 

[Bwestbrook36]

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

Barnett might be the new Brandon Graham.  1st round pick that took several years to develop into a decent starter but not a star player.  He needs a star DE on the opposite side which would be a good focus for the next draft.

 

Who knows, by the time this season is said and done maybe Sweat is that guy

[Talonblood]

I still like him. I like what Avery did and will do in the future. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

13 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

That's the key. I'd almost be tempted to try and get something done now. Risk/reward on both sides. If he has a couple of good healthy seasons he will be way overpaid due to recency bias. 

It's a tricky one that's for sure. At the very least I think they need to engage with his agent to try to understand what kind of deal he's going to be looking for. 

[PoconoDon]

I think he's a slightly above average DE who has limitations due to being undersized. Solid rotational player.

[brkmsn]

18 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Gotcha, PFF rating over 80 against the Cardinals, Jets and Giants.

I'm not sure what you saw but he didn't standout to me last night.

Weren't most of you lumping the Eagles in with the jets and giants?

[UK_EaglesFan89]

16 hours ago, NOTW said:

Barnett might be the new Brandon Graham.  1st round pick that took several years to develop into a decent starter but not a star player.  He needs a star DE on the opposite side which would be a good focus for the next draft.

 

This is spot on! Barnett could be a good #2, he certainly isn't a star DE and therefore we still need to go and find that guy. And so whether Barnett stays or not comes down to the contract he is after.

[EagleVA]

11 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Weren't most of you lumping the Eagles in with the jets and giants?

The point I was trying to make is you have to consider your competition when evaluating player's performances.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

The point I was trying to make is you have to consider your competition when evaluating player's performances.

Yeah to be fair we haven't gone up against the best of offensive lines! I guess Rams are perhaps the best OL we've been up against? And they are far from a top OL.

[ManchesterEagle]

16 hours ago, NOTW said:

Barnett might be the new Brandon Graham.  1st round pick that took several years to develop into a decent starter but not a star player.  He needs a star DE on the opposite side which would be a good focus for the next draft.

 

 

13 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Who knows, by the time this season is said and done maybe Sweat is that guy

The Line is looking pretty good at the moment. Cox and Hargrave have been banged up, but we are starting to get a legit DL rotation like in 2017, where we can keep players fresh and keep dominating the line.

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

The Line is looking pretty good at the moment. Cox and Hargrave have been banged up, but we are starting to get a legit DL rotation like in 2017, where we can keep players fresh and keep dominating the line.

That was key, the rotation.  I like the depth Ridgeway, Sweat and Avery give them.  When fully healthy (heh, with this team?) the D line is still the strength of the defense and if they could add a strong DE to the mix to replace Graham (I'm assuming he'll be a cap casualty in a year or 2) that DE group would be good.  Barnett isn't a stud but I see him as a solid starter, essentially replacing Graham.  Then we just need to get another top DE prospect to go along with him.

[NOTW]

Also even in a tough season like this it's nice to have something positive to focus on with the D line and the development of players like Sweat and seeing Ridgeway making plays.

[ManchesterEagle]

6 minutes ago, NOTW said:

That was key, the rotation.  I like the depth Ridgeway, Sweat and Avery give them.  When fully healthy (heh, with this team?) the D line is still the strength of the defense and if they could add a strong DE to the mix to replace Graham (I'm assuming he'll be a cap casualty in a year or 2) that DE group would be good.  Barnett isn't a stud but I see him as a solid starter, essentially replacing Graham.  Then we just need to get another top DE prospect to go along with him.

Exactly this. The D has been criminally ignored in the draft though for the past few years and it's starting to catch-up with us. If somehow Taylor could turn into a legitimate starting linebacker next year and Wallace can develop into a good starting safety, then we can really focus on a stud DE replacement for Graham and adding another outside corner to pair with Slay.

[QBhunter58]

19 hours ago, Green_Guinness said:

I think this is most of the problem with people's opinions concerning Barnett.  Honestly, 2017 doesn't seem like it was a good draft class overall.  Sure, there are some standout players like Mahomes, McCaffrey, Jamal Adams, etc., but looking at the 1st round of players and the stats they've put up so far the majority of them would fall into that category of being solid without being a game changer or impact player.  Here's some other DEs that were drafted in the 1st after Barnett (16.5 career sacks):  Jonathan Allen (16.5 sacks in 2 more games played), Takkarist McKinley (17.5 sacks in 9 more games played),  Taco Charlton (10 sacks in 1 more game played).  Even the #3 overall pick, Solomon Thomas, with 6 sacks in 9 more games played.  The only ones who you could say have been impact players are Myles Garrett with 35.5 sacks and TJ Watt with 38 sacks, though he's a 3-4 LB so he was never in our plans.  

You could say we could have taken a DB.  Still available at #14 was S Malik Hooker (7 INTs), CB Marlon Humphrey (8 INTs), CB Tre'Davious White (12 INTs).  So you could say most of the teams who drafted in that first round in 2017 didn't get the game changing impact player they were hoping for.  It's just how things are and yes, some are getting too caught up in the draft position.

 

Overall I agree with your premise, 2017 is not spectacular, but in what way are Humphrey and White not game changers? Also Jonathan Allen is a DT and a complete stud, the others (Mckinley, Charlton, and even Thomas) are nothing to write home about. 

[EaglesRocker97]

Here-here! Came here to make a Barnett thread but saw that he already had one. Eagles fans clearly never learn. They gave Barnett the "Brandon Graham treatment." He's had some stumbling blocks and unfortunate injuries, but the guy has basically improved every year and is usually a force when he's on the field. On top of it all, he's still only 24. I'm rooting for him.

[Godfather]

On 10/5/2020 at 8:43 AM, ManchesterEagle said:

Derek Barnett has taken a lot of abuse on these boards. He hasn't lived up yet to his mid-round first pick. He has also committed some costly penalties.

But he was good in his rookie season and after that he's been struggling with injuries. But he can play when he's healthy. One of his better games yesterday - gave Trent Williams fits at times.

He has some upside - could be Brandon Graham 2.0 - just needs to stay healthy and hopefully he agrees to a reasonable contract.

I'm probably the biggest Barnett fan on the board. He has been a disappointing 1st rd pick thus far. Looks like he has really elevated his game this season since he's been back. Happy to see that

[ManchesterEagle]

Just now, Godfather said:

I'm probably the biggest Barnett fan on the board. He has been a disappointing 1st rd pick thus far. Looks like he has really elevated his game this season since he's been back. Happy to see that

I think the talent is there for him to be at least a good defensive end, with peak Brandon Graham upside. The big question for me is can he stay healthy for a sustained period.

[Godfather]

5 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I think the talent is there for him to be at least a good defensive end, with peak Brandon Graham upside. The big question for me is can he stay healthy for a sustained period.

Yea these ankle injuries seem like an issue with him. Hopefully he gets pass them like Stephen Curry did. I think he can be better then Graham. He was a force in college. He's got size and speed. I love the bull rush he put on Smith. He displayed good hand placement. That TFL on McKinnon I believe it was, was big time

[Green_Guinness]

3 hours ago, QBhunter58 said:

Overall I agree with your premise, 2017 is not spectacular, but in what way are Humphrey and White not game changers? Also Jonathan Allen is a DT and a complete stud, the others (Mckinley, Charlton, and even Thomas) are nothing to write home about. 

I didn't directly say they weren't very good players since they are.  I just listed some DBs we could have drafted as alternatives to Barnett.  

For some reason the site I was using listed Allen as a DE, which I knew wasn't right.  Again, a different position they could have considered, but Allen was long gone any way.

[Columbus Eagle]

23 hours ago, Portyansky said:

I need to see consistency from him. And not get injured. Avery I have been saying since we traded for him, Gym Shorts needs to play him at his strengths. He did that this game. The rest of the dline has really started to gel. Sweat has been playing his best ball, and I suspect he will only get better.

100 agree. It seems like Schwartz likes to play certain guys when we have guys on the bench that can contribute. It’s a shame it sometimes takes injuries to see what these guys can do on the field. 

[QBhunter58]

8 minutes ago, Columbus Eagle said:

100 agree. It seems like Schwartz likes to play certain guys when we have guys on the bench that can contribute. It’s a shame it sometimes takes injuries to see what these guys can do on the field. 

Thats what happens when you have a coach who is resistant to adapting his scheme based on the players he has. Stick with your scheme by all means, but you also need to work with what you've got.