Barnett is far from a bust.

[CaliEagle]

Barnett is like Mamula, just different circumstances. Mamula wasn't really a bust either, but he was about a 4th round talent. But, he didn't live up to the pre-draft hype so people called him a bust.  Barnett is probably giving us the returns of a  3rd round pick.  Part of his issue is injuries.  In fairness, Graham started really slow in his career and then picked it up.  When you draft a DE near the top 10, you hope you are getting a 8+ sack year a guy.  If you get less than that, then it's easy to view them as a disappointment.  So, I would say Barnett has been a slight disappointment. But, it does make people question Howie because you want a really good player with that top 15 pick.

[Penn7980]

Barnett is OK.  He has the durability issue.  But when he is playing, he gives efforts and makes plays.  Not quite a player the opponents would game plan for or a household name outside of the fans base.  If he can improve and continue to perform, he may become better known in the league.

[Madriver]

On 10/5/2020 at 8:49 AM, ManchesterEagle said:

Avery showed up as well.

The D-Line finally looked like it was supposed to last night. We will need it to dominate though, because the back 7 is pretty bad.

Avery was my favorite surprise in that game.

[CaliEagle]

1 minute ago, Madriver said:

Avery was my favorite surprise in that game.

It was like he came out of hibernation after a long, extended winter.

[NOTW]

Too often the Eagles have players that perform about average but are 1st or 2nd round picks that take 2-3 years to really start playing well. Then some fans gloat about "the haters" who need to be patient.  You don't mind 3rd or 4th round picks or later to take time to develop.  And everyone knows there are early round busts and disappointments and later round gems found.  But it seems consistent that Eagles high draft picks underperform and take time to come around to eventually be just an ok starter.  

 

[wtfcares]

1 hour ago, CaliEagle said:

Barnett is like Mamula, just different circumstances. Mamula wasn't really a bust either, but he was about a 4th round talent. But, he didn't live up to the pre-draft hype so people called him a bust.  Barnett is probably giving us the returns of a  3rd round pick.  Part of his issue is injuries.  In fairness, Graham started really slow in his career and then picked it up.  When you draft a DE near the top 10, you hope you are getting a 8+ sack year a guy.  If you get less than that, then it's easy to view them as a disappointment.  So, I would say Barnett has been a slight disappointment. But, it does make people question Howie because you want a really good player with that top 15 pick.

 

4 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Too often the Eagles have players that perform about average but are 1st or 2nd round picks that take 2-3 years to really start playing well. Then some fans gloat about "the haters" who need to be patient.  You don't mind 3rd or 4th round picks or later to take time to develop.  And everyone knows there are early round busts and disappointments and later round gems found.  But it seems consistent that Eagles high draft picks underperform and take time to come around to eventually be just an ok starter.  

 

Your guys’ expectations of D-Line mid round picks are quite far from reality. It’s not like WRs or RBs where they are a dime a dozen. It’s very rare for a 3rd round or later draft pick at DE to turn into even an average starter. It’s a position that’s very top heavy. 

[NOTW]

2017 was also a draft that was supposed to be a historically deep class at corner and it was the weakest spot on the roster.  Everyone knew they needed to draft at minimum 2 corners.  It was also a deep RB class.  So in a deep corner class to take a DE in the 1st round instead, that raises the expectations that this DE must be special, needs to be a monster.

Then those 2 corners turn out to basically be busts that get cut and the RB you take is Pumphrey.  You also take Mack Hollins instead of a better RB choice or a defender.  It just leaves you with Barnett and he's an ok starter.

[CaliEagle]

2 hours ago, wtfcares said:

 

Your guys’ expectations of D-Line mid round picks are quite far from reality. It’s not like WRs or RBs where they are a dime a dozen. It’s very rare for a 3rd round or later draft pick at DE to turn into even an average starter. It’s a position that’s very top heavy. 

Trent Cole says hello. Clyde Simmons says hello.  Josh Sweat says hello.  Dennis Harrison says hello. Greg Brown undrafted says hello.

[brkmsn]

10 hours ago, EagleVA said:

The point I was trying to make is you have to consider your competition when evaluating player's performances.

 

10 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Yeah to be fair we haven't gone up against the best of offensive lines! I guess Rams are perhaps the best OL we've been up against? And they are far from a top OL.

Chicago holds the record for sacks by a team in a season with 72 (1984). Do you think they only played against great offensive lines? The Steelers led the NFL last year with 54 sacks. Do you think they only played teams with good offensive lines? So often around here, people don't want to give credit to good performances so they discredit them by attacking the competition. News flash, people: Most NFL records on offense came against bad defenses and most NFL records on defense came vs bad offenses. 

[wtfcares]

28 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

Trent Cole says hello. Clyde Simmons says hello.  Josh Sweat says hello.  Dennis Harrison says hello. Greg Brown undrafted says hello.

Lol sure you can cherry pick 5 guys from the last 20 years. That’s the exception not the average. The reality is the majority of DEs picked mid-late round never become decent starters. Look at all the good DEs around the league right now, pretty much all are 1st-2nd round picks. 
 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-rankings-the-nfls-top-25-edge-defenders-ahead-of-the-2020-nfl-season

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, brkmsn said:

 

Chicago holds the record for sacks by a team in a season with 72 (1984). Do you think they only played against great offensive lines? The Steelers led the NFL last year with 54 sacks. Do you think they only played teams with good offensive lines? So often around here, people don't want to give credit to good performances so they discredit them by attacking the competition. News flash, people: Most NFL records on offense came against bad defenses and most NFL records on defense came vs bad offenses. 

Actually I was just making the point for context. Just to say that whilst the numbers had been pretty good we should remember that it wasn't against great offensive lines. Because ultimately its against the better teams, in the bigger games where we would want our DL to show up. 

[brkmsn]

5 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Actually I was just making the point for context. Just to say that whilst the numbers had been pretty good we should remember that it wasn't against great offensive lines. Because ultimately its against the better teams, in the bigger games where we would want our DL to show up. 

I think we want them to show up every week. But since we are placing conditions on evaluations, maybe we can list all the valid O-lines right now that they may face this year so we will know whether or not we can praise their performance against those teams. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I think we want them to show up every week. But since we are placing conditions on evaluations, maybe we can list all the valid O-lines right now that they may face this year so we will know whether or not we can praise their performance against those teams. 

Of course we want them to show up every week. You want them to flat out dominate against the poor o lines and then make plays against the better ones. 

[kentwo]

21 hours ago, NOTW said:

2017 was also a draft that was supposed to be a historically deep class at corner and it was the weakest spot on the roster.  Everyone knew they needed to draft at minimum 2 corners.  It was also a deep RB class.  So in a deep corner class to take a DE in the 1st round instead, that raises the expectations that this DE must be special, needs to be a monster.

Then those 2 corners turn out to basically be busts that get cut and the RB you take is Pumphrey.  You also take Mack Hollins instead of a better RB choice or a defender.  It just leaves you with Barnett and he's an ok starter.

That draft class is full of studs and above average starters at CB and RB. To reflect on how Howie missed on all of them, knowing that those two positions were targeted by the Eagles is a testament to how poorly he drafts. 

[EagleVA]

23 hours ago, CaliEagle said:

Barnett is probably giving us the returns of a  3rd round pick.  

I'd stick with the Mamula 4th.

[QBhunter58]

2 hours ago, kentwo said:

That draft class is full of studs and above average starters at CB and RB. To reflect on how Howie missed on all of them, knowing that those two positions were targeted by the Eagles is a testament to how poorly he drafts. 

Yeah I am still burned up about not making a strong push for Cook, and then completely ignoring Kamara

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

Yeah I am still burned up about not making a strong push for Cook, and then completely ignoring Kamara

Thing is... That is the case most years for most teams. 31 other teams overlooked Kamara.

[kentwo]

1 hour ago, QBhunter58 said:

Yeah I am still burned up about not making a strong push for Cook, and then completely ignoring Kamara

Even if they missed on Kamara they also had a shot at:

K.Hunt

D.Foreman

J.Conner

S.Perine

T.Cohen

J.Williams

W.Gallman

M.Mack

B.Hill

A.Jones

C.Carson

 

Not all of these are great, but they're all better than Pumphrey. 

[Ace Nova]

He's been at the very least a "serviceable" DE since he's been here.  He was never a "bust". 

If he continues to play the way he's been playing this year, he will go from "serviceable" to "pretty good/very good".

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

He's been at the very least a "serviceable" DE since he's been here.  He was never a "bust". 

If he continues to play the way he's been playing this year, he will go from "serviceable" to "pretty good/very good".

 

Yeah I don't know how he can be classed as a bust. He's put up decent enough numbers for a #2 DE. He's decent against the run too. He's just not been what maybe we'd have hoped for a top half of the first round pick. 

[EazyEaglez]

Barnett had a lot to do with the defense losin containment on those misdirection plays today. 

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Barnett had a lot to do with the defense losin containment on those misdirection plays today. 

Which plays exactly?

[EazyEaglez]

4 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Which plays exactly?

Many of the end around plays he lost containment. One of them the receiver just ran right by him. The screens the DEs just ran right up field. There was no containment by the ends today. 

[brkmsn]

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Many of the end around plays he lost containment. One of them the receiver just ran right by him. The screens the DEs just ran right up field. There was no containment by the ends today. 

Not buying it, the 58 yarder went away from Barnett. The other 4 combined for 11 yards. Show me the plays. Don't just make stuff up please. 

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, brkmsn said:

Not buying it, the 58 yarder went away from Barnett. The other 4 combined for 11 yards. Show me the plays. Don't just make stuff up please. 

I don’t care what buy. 😂 I’m not making it up either. Nor am I going to waste my time running this thing back and showing photos as proof.