October 16, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: I guess I just don’t look to the president for answers like others do. Maybe that’s my disconnect here. Idk.
October 16, 20205 yr 8 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: I get all that but I think the biggest difference is Americans are morons have to have their freedumb. Just talking with people in Europe vs being in the US I can see a difference in the public’s mind set regardless of poor leadership in those countries or not. I think Trump was uniquely positioned to actually be able to convince some of his more ... skeptical ... followers, to buy in. Biden may well have had a more difficult time getting some of these ardent anti-maskers to get with the program, whereas if Trump went along with it I think they'd be more open. There would still be those who dissent, but I believe that number would have been MUCH lower had this president advocated for it.
October 16, 20205 yr 5 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: I guess I just don’t look to the president for answers like others do. Maybe that’s my disconnect here. Idk. You're giving the cult members too much credit. When their leader says things like wearing a mask can be dangerous, or 85% of people who wear masks get COVID, they regurgitate that crap. If he wore a mask, they would too. http://www.dailystarjournal.com/news/national/trump-supporter-i-would-wear-a-mask-if-trump-asked/video_7d8ad318-aedc-5e8a-8e0b-07ae5f735d00.html
October 16, 20205 yr Author 34 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Europe's second wave pales in comparison to ours because of what they did. Your talking point falls flat again, Kz. Maybe go back to posting random tweets about crimes in the African-American community and leave the adult conversations to others. Yeah, to the small government libertarians who whine about a lack of restrictions over a virus that 99.99% of people recover from.
October 16, 20205 yr 10 minutes ago, vikas83 said: There is a different mindset here for sure. Call it the lingering impact of frontier-ism, or the greater focus on individual liberty. But both interviews and polls show that Trump supporters would wear masks if Trump told them it was important. He just doesn't want to show any sign of weakness -- his go to move has always been ignoring reality and simply focusing on the best case scenario (e.g., ignoring all the bankers' warnings that the Taj Mahal couldn't possibly cover its debt load even if it were the most successful casino in the world). The bigger issue is the political cover issue. That's the job of the President at time -- to take the heat and protect members of his party. Had Trump taken this seriously, governors in red states could have stayed the course. But Trump wants no responsibility for ANYTHING, so he undercut his own administration and tweeted about liberating states. Nothing did more damage than places re-opening too soon -- it's why we failed where the rest of the developed world succeeded. Basically, this was a situation that called for reasoned and informed leadership willing to accept accountability and responsibility. So...yeah. Donald Trump is basically the last person you would choose for that job. It's like hiring an alcoholic to be a bar tender. Germany reopened before the US did. Their cases stayed low and only recently started going back up. The people just actually wore the masks. Why it’s going back up now idk. Poland is in a similar situation. Look I wouldn’t want trump in charge of anything. I’m sure you guys are right that Biden wearing a mask would have made the muh freedumb crowd listen somehow. I just don’t see it happening. also aren’t corona cases higher among black and Latino than white people? And don’t they genuinely support democrats?
October 16, 20205 yr Just now, Kz! said: Yeah, to the small government libertarians who whine about a lack of restrictions over a virus that 99.99% of people recover from. Yeah... you're not smart.
October 16, 20205 yr 3 minutes ago, vikas83 said: You're giving the cult members too much credit. When their leader says things like wearing a mask can be dangerous, or 85% of people who wear masks get COVID, they regurgitate that crap. If he wore a mask, they would too. http://www.dailystarjournal.com/news/national/trump-supporter-i-would-wear-a-mask-if-trump-asked/video_7d8ad318-aedc-5e8a-8e0b-07ae5f735d00.html Oh there’s a sheet ton of people that think wearing the mask can be dangerous. I don’t even go to the store with my wife after being outside for a while because " I’m so hot I can’t breath in this thing and I’m sweating all over the place” followed by me telling her "shut the F up and go outside if you can’t handle 10 minutes in a mask”. Safe to say she’s not a trump supporter.
October 16, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Kz! said: Great Tucker segment on this last night: Tucker just doesn't miss. Remarkable. Tucker Carlson. That's the guy that Fox news won the lawsuit about, because he isn't news? That guy? Quote Judge tosses suit over Trump affair story after Fox News argues no "reasonable viewer" takes Tucker Carlson seriously
October 16, 20205 yr Author Just now, Toastrel said: Tucker Carlson. That's the guy that Fox news won the lawsuit about, because he isn't news? That guy? That was actually refuted hard in the Media Lies thread by RPeeterules. You should check it out. He torched you, bro.
October 16, 20205 yr 8 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I think Trump was uniquely positioned to actually be able to convince some of his more ... skeptical ... followers, to buy in. Biden may well have had a more difficult time getting some of these ardent anti-maskers to get with the program, whereas if Trump went along with it I think they'd be more open. There would still be those who dissent, but I believe that number would have been MUCH lower had this president advocated for it. Sure but the initial point was how would Biden be different? I don’t see Biden convincing the muh freedumb morons to listen and shutdown wear masks etc.
October 16, 20205 yr 10 minutes ago, Kz! said: Yeah, to the small government libertarians who whine about a lack of restrictions over a virus that 99.99% of people recover from. Odds are that you'll get in 1 car accident every 18 years. And less than 1% of car accidents are fatal. So no need to wear seatbelts and enforce seatbelt laws then with such an extremely low probability of death, right?
October 16, 20205 yr Author 1 minute ago, Phillyterp85 said: Odds are that you'll get in 1 car accident every 18 years. And less than 1% of car accidents are fatal. So no need to wear seatbelts and enforce seatbelt laws then with such an extremely low probability of death, right? I disagree whole-heartedly with seatbelt laws, yes. I do, however, wear a seatbelt.
October 16, 20205 yr Just now, Kz! said: I disagree whole-heartedly with seatbelt laws, yes. I do, however, wear a seatbelt. Cool, now do drunk driving...
October 16, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, Kz! said: I disagree whole-heartedly with seatbelt laws, yes. I do, however, wear a seatbelt. ......why?
October 16, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, Paul852 said: ......why? Because they are Unconstitutional. You can't force someone to wear a seat belt -- they have every right to be a moron. Now, I would support the right of an insurance company not to cover you if it can be proven that you weren't wearing a seat belt. That should be the incentive, from the private sector. Someone not wearing a seat belt only endangers himself. People have the right to be idiots. Someone driving drunk puts others at risk -- they don't have the right to do that.
October 16, 20205 yr 6 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: Sure but the initial point was how would Biden be different? I don’t see Biden convincing the muh freedumb morons to listen and shutdown wear masks etc. More would have worn masks had even a President Biden been leading by example. Not as many as if Trump had made the same appeal, but more. The comparison here though is a president actively discouraging masks, muzzling doctors and researchers, and lending credibility to "opinions" from crackpot supporters (like that crackpot Stella Emmanuel) that run counter to practices that would keep Americans safe. Biden would also have prioritized testing, as opposed to suppressing broader testing because of some "higher COVID numbers are bad for me politically" calculus that Trump is doing, which would have allowed us to more proactively identify and mitigate outbreaks. Bottom line is that the guy made decisions solely in the basis of what he believed to be politically advantageous for him, which often ran counter to the decisions that prioritized public safety. That man does not deserve a second term.
October 16, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said: More would have worn masks had even a President Biden been leading by example. Not as many as if Trump had made the same appeal, but more. The comparison here though is a president actively discouraging masks, muzzling doctors and researchers, and lending credibility to "opinions" from crackpot supporters (like that crackpot Stella Emmanuel) that run counter to practices that would keep Americans safe. Biden would also have prioritized testing, as opposed to suppressing broader testing because of some "higher COVID numbers are bad for me politically" calculus that Trump is doing, which would have allowed us to more proactively identify and mitigate outbreaks. Bottom line is that the guy made decisions solely in the basis of what he believed to be politically advantageous for him, which often ran counter to the decisions that prioritized public safety. That man does not deserve a second term. It's pretty simple. Biden would have done what every other responsible leader of an industrialized nation did, all of whom did a much better job than the US. Trump took hydroxy and celebrated a demon witch doctor. Gonna say the 1st option would have led to a better outcome.
October 16, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Kz! said: Great Tucker segment on this last night: Tucker just doesn't miss. Remarkable. He lost me at 0:10 when he said "accurate reporting". Reporting that originates in Russia, from Rudy Guiliani, who was confirmed by our intelligence agencies to have been compromised by Russia... is not accurate reporting
October 16, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: It's pretty simple. Biden would have done what every other responsible leader of an industrialized nation did, all of whom did a much better job than the US. Trump took hydroxy and celebrated a demon witch doctor. Gonna say the 1st option would have led to a better outcome. Exactly. This isn't complicated. We're not asking the president for a miracle. We're asking for a bare minimum level of competence. I get that some right leaning people are reluctant to support Biden, but we don't have to overcomplicate the comparison here. Biden is a good and decent man, who would likely make a competent if mediocre president, who is much closer to the center on the political spectrum than any other democrat in the primary (he is not a socialist, nor is he a Trojan horse for socialisms), who looks like goddamn Abe Lincoln next to Trump. I have misgivings about Kamala, but let's game it out and say she's president by 2022. The nation will survive. And hopefully we can all vote in President Hogan in 2024, and maybe have a rational Republican president with a Democratic congress. I could absolutely live with that.
October 16, 20205 yr 11 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Because they are Unconstitutional. You can't force someone to wear a seat belt -- they have every right to be a moron. Now, I would support the right of an insurance company not to cover you if it can be proven that you weren't wearing a seat belt. That should be the incentive, from the private sector. Someone not wearing a seat belt only endangers himself. People have the right to be idiots. Someone driving drunk puts others at risk -- they don't have the right to do that. Meh. Driving is a privilege, not a right. I'm pretty sure the courts have consistently upheld that this falls within constitutionally authorized regulatory functions at the state level. Not the federal, but state.
October 16, 20205 yr 17 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Because they are Unconstitutional. You can't force someone to wear a seat belt -- they have every right to be a moron. Now, I would support the right of an insurance company not to cover you if it can be proven that you weren't wearing a seat belt. That should be the incentive, from the private sector. Someone not wearing a seat belt only endangers himself. People have the right to be idiots. Someone driving drunk puts others at risk -- they don't have the right to do that. They are? In what way exactly? I'm not being a smart a** here. I'm genuinely curious why seat belt laws fall under the category of being unconstitutional.
October 16, 20205 yr Just now, JohnSnowsHair said: Exactly. This isn't complicated. We're not asking the president for a miracle. We're asking for a bare minimum level of competence. I get that some right leaning people are reluctant to support Biden, but we don't have to overcomplicate the comparison here. Biden is a good and decent man, who would likely make a competent if mediocre president, who is much closer to the center on the political spectrum than any other democrat in the primary (he is not a socialist, nor is he a Trojan horse for socialisms), who looks like goddamn Abe Lincoln next to Trump. I have misgivings about Kamala, but let's game it out and say she's president by 2022. The nation will survive. And hopefully we can all vote in President Hogan in 2024, and maybe have a rational Republican president with a Democratic congress. I could absolutely live with that. What I said in 2016 still applies. The country will be worse off in 4 years after a President Biden (Hillary then) as far as things I care about like not expanding the reach and scope of government (it's hard to say we will be worse off categorically seeing how bad things currently are in this country). We will move further to the left, even incrementally, which in the past would have been reason enough for me to vote GOP. However, the country may not survive another 4 years of Trump. The black swan risk his idiocy presents is too much, especially combined with him becoming completely unleashed due to the fact that he won't have to worry about re-election. Four years of an imbecile with no one to hold him accountable, trying to resolve a pandemic? A moron who has joked about things like defaulting on the US debt? I don't think the country and recover from 4 more years of this. And I think people generally want this to stop -- we have been on a coke fueled rage bender in Vegas for 4 years, and Joe Biden is the klonopin that let's us finally get some damn sleep. My hope is that the GOP retreats, reforms and comes back with a strong candidate in 2024 that can win. I had hopes for Nikki Haley, but she may be too aligned with Trumpism. But 4 more years of Trump will destroy the conservative values of the GOP once and for all, leaving no place for small government conservatives to turn.
October 16, 20205 yr 38 minutes ago, Kz! said: Yeah, to the small government libertarians who whine about a lack of restrictions over a virus that 99.99% of people recover from. not really sure where you keep pulling this 99.99% recovery rate from, but whatever.
October 16, 20205 yr Author Just now, barho said: not really sure where you keep pulling this 99.99% recovery rate from, but whatever. science.
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