Jaycee Horn (South Carolina CB) -- DRAFTED BY CAROLINA #8

[eaglesfan0075]

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I'm liking it more and more. Chase and Pitts don't transform this team into a Super Bowl team. The D needs a major overhaul - and now it's likely we address the D in the first. Next year we have potentially 3 first round picks to add talent on both sides of the ball.

Chances are we are going to have 2 out of the best 3 corners available (Surtain, Horn, Farley). Both of the best DEs available (Paye/Rousseau) and at least one of Waddle or Smith. Parsons may well be there. I think that's unlikely given how the team values linebackers and his off the field issues).

Any way it shakes out - the Eagles are going to have 4-5 quality players to pick from at positions of need.

I have to admit I was excited about the possibility of an offensive playmaker at 6, but this team is many pieces away from contending so I understand the trade down. There's still an outside chance that one of the top 3 WRs or Pitts falls to 12, but I'm expecting a defensive pick now with how the value on the board is gonna change after pick 10.

That being said, I do agree with Ray that CB at 12 makes a lot more sense than DE. Hopefully the FO sees it the same way we do! One could argue Horn/Surtain/Farley is a bit of a reach at 6, but at 12 that's right around the perfect range for one of these guys.

Surtain probably ends up with the Cowboys, and leaving us with Horn vs Farley. Farley's injury history is concerning, I'd rather have Horn given the choice. Horn has helped his draft stock significantly with his 40 time.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

8 hours ago, Ray75 said:

A top corner at #12 will definitely make a difference! Because we’ll not be in position anymore to draft Pitts or Chase, it’s not a lost cause. Our D backfield could finally look great again by pairing Horn or Surtain with Slay, Harris and McCleod.

For one year... And then McLeod probably is moved on and is getting older anyway. Slay is another year older and Harris is on a one year deal. 

[Ray75]

8 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

For one year... And then McLeod probably is moved on and is getting older anyway. Slay is another year older and Harris is on a one year deal. 

More reasons to address the secondary with two picks in the first 3 rounds.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Ray75 said:

More reasons to address the secondary with two picks in the first 3 rounds.

And ignore the offense? The offense that's been so terrible the last couple of years? In a league led by offense?

[Ray75]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And ignore the offense? The offense that's been so terrible the last couple of years? In a league led by offense?

1000 %!

Haven’t you been paying attention? We used 4 picks on WR’s in the last two years and signed Fulgham. That’s 5 young receivers and Goedert. The former staff couldn’t develop players for sh.. (except for Stoutland, he’s awesome). 

FO realised that and brought in a completely new staff who all have a knack for developing talent. Sirianni was able to turn an UDFA in Pascal into a quality receiver. Wait until he gets his hands on Reagor, Fulgham (extremely comparable receiver to Pascal), Watkins, Hightower and a rookie they may or may not pick in the first.

This WR class is pretty good! You don’t necessarily have to use your first on a WR. For every Chase, Smith, Waddle in the first, there is a Moore (two of them), St.Brown, Marshall, Smith-Marsette, Eskridge, Rodgers etc waiting in the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th round to get taken.

Or are you already giving up on the receivers on the roster and Sirianni’s ability to develop them? Really think one elite receiver will turn this franchise around? Wake up, man!

[Infam]

19 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

1000 %!

Haven’t you been paying attention? We used 4 picks on WR’s in the last two years and signed Fulgham. That’s 5 young receivers and Goedert. The former staff couldn’t develop players for sh.. (except for Stoutland, he’s awesome). 

FO realised that and brought in a completely new staff who all have a knack for developing talent. Sirianni was able to turn an UDFA in Pascal into a quality receiver. Wait until he gets his hands on Reagor, Fulgham (extremely comparable receiver to Pascal), Watkins, Hightower and a rookie they may or may not pick in the first.

This WR class is pretty good! You don’t necessarily have to use your first on a WR. For every Chase, Smith, Waddle in the first, there is a Moore (two of them), St.Brown, Marshall, Smith-Marsette, Eskridge, Rodgers etc waiting in the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th round to get taken.

Or are you already giving up on the receivers on the roster and Sirianni’s ability to develop them? Really think one elite receiver will turn this franchise around? Wake up, man!

Yeah this offense needs another WR. I don't care how many picks we made on that position. We still need another WR.

And no, I don't think the second is good enough for it. The difference between a first and second round WR this year is bigger than the difference at any other position.

And then there is value. A top WR costs big time money. Yes CB ain't that far off, and I will be fine with Surtain or Horn too.

But wake up yourself: IF you can pick Smith or Waddle at 12 the value is much better on them than it is for any secondary guy out there. 

[Ray75]

1 hour ago, Infam said:

Yeah this offense needs another WR. I don't care how many picks we made on that position. We still need another WR.

And no, I don't think the second is good enough for it. The difference between a first and second round WR this year is bigger than the difference at any other position.

And then there is value. A top WR costs big time money. Yes CB ain't that far off, and I will be fine with Surtain or Horn too.

But wake up yourself: IF you can pick Smith or Waddle at 12 the value is much better on them than it is for any secondary guy out there. 

Relax man!

I’m with you if either Waddle or Smith is there at #12.

Just saying the World hasn’t turned upside down because of the trade.

[Infam]

1 minute ago, Ray75 said:

Relax man!

I’m with you if either Waddle or Smith is there at #12.

Just saying the World hasn’t turned upside down because of the trade.

Love the trade. It's great value and the right thing to do.

[Wentz_Era]

Wouldn't be shocked if Horn is gone by 12..give me Horn, Parsons, Paye, Surtain in that order if you want to draft someone for the D side of the ball.

[Ray75]

Just now, Infam said:

Love the trade. It's great value and the right thing to do.

Exactly!

Baffles me some fans hate the trade. We’re in a rebuild and we need all the high picks we can. Whether or not Hurts is the guy. 

If he is, we have 3 first round picks to use on other positions and if he isn’t we have the ammo to either trade up for the next big thing at QB or use them to trade for either Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson.

[Breeze 44]

3 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Exactly!

Baffles me some fans hate the trade. We’re in a rebuild and we need all the high picks we can. Whether or not Hurts is the guy. 

If he is, we have 3 first round picks to use on other positions and if he isn’t we have the ammo to either trade up for the next big thing at QB or use them to trade for either Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson.

i don't have a problem as much with the trade as I do the value that we recieved in return. I don't believe a 4th is good value when giving them our highest 5th. If we recieved a 3rd or the 4th for our 6th I would've been fine but just not happy with return. That being said I'm all for us drafting Horn here or Surtain or od forbid  a LB as in Parsons . We do need to get this D straightened out to get off the field. Gannon coming from a Zimmer mentality does value the LB but I'd go Horn then Cox or Davies back to back. IFunny I did my 1st mock yesterday an d within 4 hours that was shot to hell lol.

[Ray75]

22 minutes ago, Breeze 44 said:

i don't have a problem as much with the trade as I do the value that we recieved in return. I don't believe a 4th is good value when giving them our highest 5th. If we recieved a 3rd or the 4th for our 6th I would've been fine but just not happy with return. That being said I'm all for us drafting Horn here or Surtain or od forbid  a LB as in Parsons . We do need to get this D straightened out to get off the field. Gannon coming from a Zimmer mentality does value the LB but I'd go Horn then Cox or Davies back to back. IFunny I did my 1st mock yesterday an d within 4 hours that was shot to hell lol.

Forget Parsons! Not happening!

[Breeze 44]

11 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Forget Parsons! Not happening!

I agree and would prefer to wait til 2nd and grab Davis or Cox... but in that regard I wold be going Horn or Waddle at 12. If it's Horn and going back to back D would not make this fan base happy but then again..what does?

[Ray75]

2 minutes ago, Breeze 44 said:

I agree and would prefer to wait til 2nd and grab Davis or Cox... but in that regard I wold be going Horn or Waddle at 12. If it's Horn and going back to back D would not make this fan base happy but then again..what does?

Well...I’d be extremely happy if they end up with Horn (or Surtain), Grant and Davis in the first 3 rounds. Take a WR like Rodgers and an IOL like Green with that other 3rd and our 4th and I’d jump for joy!

[time2rock]

6 hours ago, Ray75 said:

More reasons to address the secondary with two picks in the first 3 rounds.

I still think there is more than a slight chance one of either Pitts or Chase is there at 12.  If both are gone, then that is my hope as well, to grab either Horn or Surtain with pick 12.  I'd then have my fingers crossed either Bateman or Moehrig fall to 37 (I know, highly unlikely ... but ya never know!).   

[UK_EaglesFan89]

13 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Or are you already giving up on the receivers on the roster and Sirianni’s ability to develop them? Really think one elite receiver will turn this franchise around? Wake up, man!

So because they've invested picks they should be happy? That means they've definitely got the right guys they just need to get more out of them? Look they may well be better than we've seen but that doesn't mean they should be happy with what they have.

[Ray75]

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

So because they've invested picks they should be happy? That means they've definitely got the right guys they just need to get more out of them? Look they may well be better than we've seen but that doesn't mean they should be happy with what they have.

The point is; you can’t keep using high draft picks on receivers because you missed a couple of times. There are more positions that need attention. WR is a position the Eagles usually prefer not to spend to many high picks on. Especially in the top 15 they like to take OL, DL or QB. Some positions have been neglected for years, WR is not one of them. I’m not saying they should pass on the opportunity to add a good pass catcher (even at #12) but at one point enough is enough and you have to work with what you have IMO.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, Ray75 said:

The point is; you can’t keep using high draft picks on receivers because you missed a couple of times. There are more positions that need attention. WR is a position the Eagles usually prefer not to spend to many high picks on. Especially in the top 15 they like to take OL, DL or QB. Some positions have been neglected for years, WR is not one of them. I’m not saying they should pass on the opportunity to add a good pass catcher (even at #12) but at one point enough is enough and you have to work with what you have IMO.

Just because they've put a lot of assets in to the position doesn't mean they should pass on a potentially elite talent like Pitts or Chase though bud. 

[Ray75]

27 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Just because they've put a lot of assets in to the position doesn't mean they should pass on a potentially elite talent like Pitts or Chase though bud. 

Forget Pitts and Chase. They’ll be long gone by the time we’re on the clock.

Personally I think it’s a bad strategy to keep using high draft picks on receivers while you haven’t been able to properly develop your own guys and in the process neglect other positions of need.

I’m not saying you should pass on either Waddle or Smith at #12 but you can’t keep doing this. It’ll hurt the team in the long run.

Just look at a team like the Steelers. Hardly ever use first rounders on WR’s but somehow always find talent at the position beyond the first round.

[ManchesterEagle]

23 hours ago, time2rock said:

I still think there is more than a slight chance one of either Pitts or Chase is there at 12.  If both are gone, then that is my hope as well, to grab either Horn or Surtain with pick 12.  I'd then have my fingers crossed either Bateman or Moehrig fall to 37 (I know, highly unlikely ... but ya never know!).   

 

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Just because they've put a lot of assets in to the position doesn't mean they should pass on a potentially elite talent like Pitts or Chase though bud. 

 

2 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Forget Pitts and Chase. They’ll be long gone by the time we’re on the clock.

Personally I think it’s a bad strategy to keep using high draft picks on receivers while you haven’t been able to properly develop your own guys and in the process neglect other positions of need.

I’m not saying you should pass on either Waddle or Smith at #12 but you can’t keep doing this. It’ll hurt the team in the long run.

Just look at a team like the Steelers. Hardly ever use first rounders on WR’s but somehow always find talent at the position beyond the first round.

Firstly - I think Horn should be pinned now. One of the most likely picks at 12.

I'd come round to the idea of taking Pitts or Chase at 6, simply because they were the best player available and would also give Hurts a loaded offense to see what he can do. But getting an extra first next year was the right move. We will still get a quality player at 12. Also good to be able to move back into 4th.

Now I would personally forget about the idea of trading Ertz. Say the right things and that you will feature him and give him the opportunity to pick his next team. Heck a team like the Packers or Seahawks may come for him mid-season. But I think we should keep him as a security blanket for Hurts. As you say give the new coaching crew an opportunity to develop Reagor, Fulgham, Watkins etc. 

Surtain or Horn is the most likely pick. Farley IMO had the most talent, but those injury red flags are too much for the Eagles to ignore and take him at 12.

 

[time2rock]

24 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Now I would personally forget about the idea of trading Ertz. Say the right things and that you will feature him and give him the opportunity to pick his next team.

What does keeping Ertz do?  Help us to be competitive in 2021?  That is extremely unlikely with or without Ertz.  The focus absolutely should be getting rid of players that will not be part of the future nucleus of this team.  Those are the aging vets on bloated contracts.  Now I'm not just giving him away.  If Howie is unable to find a taker to make us a reasonable offer by the trade deadline, then so be it ... keep him for the remainder of 2021, let him walk in FA, and hope for a comp pick.  But guessing we'll be bigger players in FA next year that will cancel a potential comp pick.  

[ManchesterEagle]

2 minutes ago, time2rock said:

What does keeping Ertz do?  Help us to be competitive in 2021?  That is extremely unlikely with or without Ertz.  The focus absolutely should be getting rid of players that will not be part of the future nucleus of this team.  Those are the aging vets on bloated contracts.  Now I'm not just giving him away.  If Howie is unable to find a taker to make us a reasonable offer by the trade deadline, then so be it ... keep him for the remainder of 2021, let him walk in FA, and hope for a comp pick.  But guessing we'll be bigger players in FA next year that will cancel a potential comp pick.  

Yeah don't get me wrong, if we get a half decent offer for Ertz, then I'm taking it. But I'm not undervaluing him or giving him away for a fifth or less, particularly as it's a limited cap saving.

It looked likely that we would get Pitts or Chase. Now that they are realistically off the board, then I want to make sure that Hurts has enough weapons that we can see what we have him in. Hurts would benefit from having a good veteran presence out there. Plus we may get a better offer by the trade deadline if he is healthy this year.

I agree on the compensation pick. Unlikely given that we should be active next year and not really worth factoring in.

[time2rock]

3 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Yeah don't get me wrong, if we get a half decent offer for Ertz, then I'm taking it. But I'm not undervaluing him or giving him away for a fifth or less, particularly as it's a limited cap saving.

It looked likely that we would get Pitts or Chase. Now that they are realistically off the board, then I want to make sure that Hurts has enough weapons that we can see what we have him in. Hurts would benefit from having a good veteran presence out there. Plus we may get a better offer by the trade deadline if he is healthy this year.

I agree on the compensation pick. Unlikely given that we should be active next year and not really worth factoring in.

Moving him would yield $5M in cap relief.  If we moved him closer to the trade deadline (i.e. after June 1), I believe the savings is $8.5M.  I wouldn't call that "limited".  We are going to need cap space to extend Goedert and potentially Sweat and/or Mailata (in addition to $5-7M for signing draft picks).  But other than that I agree.  

[ManchesterEagle]

2 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Moving him would yield $5M in cap relief.  If we moved him closer to the trade deadline (i.e. after June 1), I believe the savings is $8.5M.  I wouldn't call that "limited".  We are going to need cap space to extend Goedert and potentially Sweat and/or Mailata (in addition to $5-7M for signing draft picks).  But other than that I agree.  

Okay - I thought it was just £4 million full stop. I agree that's definitely worth thinking about if it's £8.5.  But I think we are basically on the same page.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Just look at a team like the Steelers. Hardly ever use first rounders on WR’s but somehow always find talent at the position beyond the first round.

That's all well and good but... Howie is terrible in the draft so that's a big issue here isn't it.