Patrick Surtain II (Alabama CB) -- DRAFTED BY DENVER #9

[The Blackfish]

21 minutes ago, stinkfist said:

Horn will not be there for our 2nd round pick. I'm' talking about Horn projecting every bit as well as Surtain and Farley. All three of them play press. I'm not sure what you're talking about on that. Horn actually fails to use his hands in press. Surtain is handsy. False hands and then location hand on routes. I'm not sure what "loves to press" means. Press is a coverage, not an option. 

He prefers to play opposite the wr instead of off the LOS, he does get a little more contact in coverage than Farley and Surtain, just not right off the line.    He played really well against Grimes in the Florida game, but I think I counted 3 times, Horn would have had PI or holding penalties in the NFL, and two called against Seth in the Auburn game, but he also had two picks that game and I think one pass deflected that turned into a pick. 

[PoconoDon]

If our new DC likes to blitz, then they'll have to run some man to man behind it. Surtain is not that kind of CB. He's a zone guy. Now that the old Seattle/Falcons coach is in Dallas, maybe they take him. Chase will eat him alive. 

[JetroLot]

2 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

He prefers to play opposite the wr instead of off the LOS, he does get a little more contact in coverage than Farley and Surtain, just not right off the line.    He played really well against Grimes in the Florida game, but I think I counted 3 times, Horn would have had PI or holding penalties in the NFL, and two called against Seth in the Auburn game, but he also had two picks that game and I think one pass deflected that turned into a pick. 

I'm not trying to give you crap, but we're having two different conversations. You're talking about press vs. off coverage. You don't "prefer" to play one or the other, you're told to play one or the other. It's a scheme. You don't walk up as a corner and say, "Well, I'm going to play head up press instead of inside leverage right now", let alone off man. 

I guess what I'm saying is, either we are having trouble communicating or the way you're wording it isn't there. 

Again, not trying to give you a hassle. Just doesn't make sense. 

If I reword it and you are saying that "he'd excel more in press coverage" than I understand you. Maybe that's what you mean? He does get handsy in routes. Agree there. Because he's not nearly as polished as Surtain and doesn't use his hands in the beginning of the route or takes false steps often. It's my issue with him. Then he drives at the hip which is great, but he tends to wrap that arm HIGH instead of LOW. Get that damn arm down man. 

You may be saying all that and just using some verbage that is throwing me? If so, fully agree. 🙂 

[JetroLot]

2 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

If our new DC likes to blitz, then they'll have to run some man to man behind it. Surtain is not that kind of CB. He's a zone guy. Now that the old Seattle/Falcons coach is in Dallas, maybe they take him. Chase will eat him alive. 

He plays man pretty damn well. Just take a look at his highlights when he's in man and a few things I'll point out that I like. I wish I knew how to make a damn video. I'm so old. 🤣

If he is playing inside leverage on the outside, you'll notice he will do one of two things immediately:

1. Throw a hand up that makes zero contact and then throw a second that makes contact. That first hand is to make the WR give his route away immediately because he thinks contact is coming. Second hand then starts to drive to the sideline which is obviously your buddy. He's super well coached there. 

2. Keeps his body parallel to everyone and if he opens his hips, he opens them again, toward the sideline and then escorts the route that way. 

Surtain is winning 80% of the time just doing that. To be honest, it's what actually worries me about him. He's so technically proficient that I worry a little bit what happens against receivers that know how to beat that. 

There's film of him running press bail at Alabama. Press bail is something you never seen run anymore. That's what they used to let Morris Claiborne run at LSU under Jon Chavis. You're essentially saying, "my cornerback is the fastest and best athlete on the field and you can't beat him." 

I don't think that Surtain is the fastest or best athlete on the field, but they ran press bail with him. That's ballsy. 

My question with him right now is, how fast is he? And I don't mean the 40. Don't care about that. Can you turn and burn? I have a little bit of concern there. 

I don't think any of the corners are worth taking at 6th overall right now. 

[PoconoDon]

2 hours ago, stinkfist said:

He plays man pretty damn well. Just take a look at his highlights when he's in man and a few things I'll point out that I like. I wish I knew how to make a damn video. I'm so old. 🤣

If he is playing inside leverage on the outside, you'll notice he will do one of two things immediately:

1. Throw a hand up that makes zero contact and then throw a second that makes contact. That first hand is to make the WR give his route away immediately because he thinks contact is coming. Second hand then starts to drive to the sideline which is obviously your buddy. He's super well coached there. 

2. Keeps his body parallel to everyone and if he opens his hips, he opens them again, toward the sideline and then escorts the route that way. 

Surtain is winning 80% of the time just doing that. To be honest, it's what actually worries me about him. He's so technically proficient that I worry a little bit what happens against receivers that know how to beat that. 

There's film of him running press bail at Alabama. Press bail is something you never seen run anymore. That's what they used to let Morris Claiborne run at LSU under Jon Chavis. You're essentially saying, "my cornerback is the fastest and best athlete on the field and you can't beat him." 

I don't think that Surtain is the fastest or best athlete on the field, but they ran press bail with him. That's ballsy. 

My question with him right now is, how fast is he? And I don't mean the 40. Don't care about that. Can you turn and burn? I have a little bit of concern there. 

I don't think any of the corners are worth taking at 6th overall right now. 

His lack of deep speed is his biggest issue. I don't think he has make-up speed if he's beat even a little bit. He's pretty good, and I don't want to suggest otherwise, but I don't see a great CB in him. A mid-to-late 1st round pick into the right system seems reasonable to me for him. I like Farley better overall, but I'm looking to trade back a little to get him if I must take him. I agree with you that none of the CB's this year look like world beaters. With no Combine likely this year, we'll have to see what his Pro Day performance looks like. 

[The Blackfish]

2 hours ago, stinkfist said:

I'm not trying to give you crap, but we're having two different conversations. You're talking about press vs. off coverage. You don't "prefer" to play one or the other, you're told to play one or the other. It's a scheme. You don't walk up as a corner and say, "Well, I'm going to play head up press instead of inside leverage right now", let alone off man. 

I guess what I'm saying is, either we are having trouble communicating or the way you're wording it isn't there. 

Again, not trying to give you a hassle. Just doesn't make sense. 

If I reword it and you are saying that "he'd excel more in press coverage" than I understand you. Maybe that's what you mean? He does get handsy in routes. Agree there. Because he's not nearly as polished as Surtain and doesn't use his hands in the beginning of the route or takes false steps often. It's my issue with him. Then he drives at the hip which is great, but he tends to wrap that arm HIGH instead of LOW. Get that damn arm down man. 

You may be saying all that and just using some verbage that is throwing me? If so, fully agree. 🙂 

No matter the coverage called, he prefers to play on the line of scrimmage, he wants the receiver as close to him as possible, from the start of the play, he still plays the coverage called, just would rather be in the receivers face on every play.  That’s all.  His father Joe Horn last year said that Jaycee is the opposite of him, not flashy,  would love it if he was 70lbs heavier with his hand in the dirt, that doesn’t mean as a 205lb CB he’s gonna go line up as a NT. 
 

[JetroLot]

45 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

His lack of deep speed is his biggest issue. I don't think he has make-up speed if he's beat even a little bit. He's pretty good, and I don't want to suggest otherwise, but I don't see a great CB in him. A mid-to-late 1st round pick into the right system seems reasonable to me for him. I like Farley better overall, but I'm looking to trade back a little to get him if I must take him. I agree with you that none of the CB's this year look like world beaters. With no Combine likely this year, we'll have to see what his Pro Day performance looks like. 

Oh yeah. In my response to you, already what I said I'm seeing too. Just started watching corners and I'm liking Horn more than him in a lot of ways. This is one of them. I see a better/faster athlete. 

Not sure I see a Top 15 pick either to be honest. Only because I'm trying to project a ceiling and I'm worried I'm seeing it. 

[nipples]

The more I think about it, the more I’d be disappointed with Surtain at 6. I feel like there are some really talented CBs they can get in the 2nd. Possibly Samuel Jr who I think really isn’t much of a step down from Surtain to be honest. 

[brkmsn]

This conversation is reminding me a lot of the ones we had last year about drafting Jefferson at 21. You have a CB that has the size you covet these days and is a great technician with an above average football IQ. We have a huge need for an outside corner and are in position to draft him if we choose, where we currently sit. I promise you this ... if we pass him up to take another player, he will not make it past the dallas pick. There are other CB prospects that we can take instead, but Surtain will probably be the most NFL ready CB of the bunch and will start from day 1.  He has a realistic chance to be the DROY next year. 

IMO, this is a no-brainer. The biggest issue is that we have the #6 pick and people have huge man-crushes on Chase who also will probably be available. If you're on the Chase-wagon, you're trying to find faults with Surtain to justify passing on him at #6. The bottom line is that CB is clearly a need going into the draft. WR may not be. Sure, we have plenty of questions, but we invested a 2019 2nd rd pick on JJAW and 1st, 5th and 6th rd pick in 2020 on Reagor, Hightower, and Watkins. We also lucked into getting Fulgham. So currently we'll head into camp with Reagor and Hightower, competing at Z (Reagor should win easy), while Fulgham and JJAW will compete at X (Fulgham should win this). Watkins will probably be moved around a bit, but should be asked to push Ward at slot and also compete at Z. With new coaches that hopefully are better at utilizing players' strengths (and hopefully developing young players) we may already have the players that can develop into a strong WR group. 

Anyway, last year we talked ourselves out of wanting Jefferson, who many scouts felt was the most NFL ready WR in the draft because we questioned his ceiling. Now people can't stop crying about the player Howie missed. Yeah... it may be a gamble to roll forward with the group of WRs we have when Chase or Smith will likely be sitting there. All I can say is that after Slay, our best outside CB is Jacquet. Tell me you feel good about that and maybe I'll jump on the Chase-wagon. 

[JetroLot]

@brkmsn I'm not sure who you're including in "this conversation", but I'm not sure I think Patrick Surtain is the best corner available in the draft, let alone a Top 10 player. Have a lot of film to watch. 

As for Justin Jefferson, I made it pretty clear last year that my WR rankings were CeeDee Lamb way at the top of the draft and then Justin Jefferson ahead of Ruggs and Jeudy. 

I base nothing off anyone else's opinion. In fact, I hate knowing their opinion before I watch. 

So, I mean ... yeah. I'll just assume that's directed elsewhere? I'm not being snide, just responding as you were general my man. 🙂 

[brkmsn]

6 hours ago, stinkfist said:

@brkmsn I'm not sure who you're including in "this conversation", but I'm not sure I think Patrick Surtain is the best corner available in the draft, let alone a Top 10 player. Have a lot of film to watch. 

As for Justin Jefferson, I made it pretty clear last year that my WR rankings were CeeDee Lamb way at the top of the draft and then Justin Jefferson ahead of Ruggs and Jeudy. 

I base nothing off anyone else's opinion. In fact, I hate knowing their opinion before I watch. 

So, I mean ... yeah. I'll just assume that's directed elsewhere? I'm not being snide, just responding as you were general my man. 🙂 

I'm "including" the EMB in "this conversation."

My personal opinion is Surtain is a "top 10" prospect in most drafts. Let me clarify. Every year now we are seeing QBs overrated and drafted way higher than they deserve. In 2015, Winston and Mariota went 1 and 2 --- both should have been mid to late 1st rd picks. In 2016, Goff and Wentz (same thing). in 2017, Trubisky went #2. In 2018, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and Rozen went in the top 10. In 2019, Murry(1), Jones(6) and Haskins(15) all went higher than they should have. Last year we had Burrow(1), Tagovailoa(5) and Herbert(6). This draft projects Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, and Fields to all go in the top 10. My point is, we "project" players based on a ceiling that is also itself a projection. Will Surtain end up being the prize CB in this draft? Nobody knows. Farley and Horn are both exciting, young prospects that could prove to be better in a couple years. There are some other late 1st - 2nd rd prospects in this draft that also could blossom.

So why should a team consider Surtain in the top 10 this year? Because he checks all the boxes. He has the size and speed you want (short area quickness is probably the only question). He's a technician way ahead of all the others in this draft. He didn't "opt out" in 2020 and has played at a high level more than 1 college season. He comes from the top college football program that plays in the toughest conference. His team has been successful and is coming off a Championship win. In that championship game, it was clear that the projected top-10 QB (Fields) was avoiding passing Surtain's way almost the entire game. When you spend a high 1st rd pick on a player, you want him to step in right away and play at a high level, making your team better. Surtain is ready to do that. Is Farley? Is Horn? 

[Ray75]

5 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I'm "including" the EMB in "this conversation."

My personal opinion is Surtain is a "top 10" prospect in most drafts. Let me clarify. Every year now we are seeing QBs overrated and drafted way higher than they deserve. In 2015, Winston and Mariota went 1 and 2 --- both should have been mid to late 1st rd picks. In 2016, Goff and Wentz (same thing). in 2017, Trubisky went #2. In 2018, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and Rozen went in the top 10. In 2019, Murry(1), Jones(6) and Haskins(15) all went higher than they should have. Last year we had Burrow(1), Tagovailoa(5) and Herbert(6). This draft projects Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, and Fields to all go in the top 10. My point is, we "project" players based on a ceiling that is also itself a projection. Will Surtain end up being the prize CB in this draft? Nobody knows. Farley and Horn are both exciting, young prospects that could prove to be better in a couple years. There are some other late 1st - 2nd rd prospects in this draft that also could blossom.

So why should a team consider Surtain in the top 10 this year? Because he checks all the boxes. He has the size and speed you want (short area quickness is probably the only question). He's a technician way ahead of all the others in this draft. He didn't "opt out" in 2020 and has played at a high level more than 1 college season. He comes from the top college football program that plays in the toughest conference. His team has been successful and is coming off a Championship win. In that championship game, it was clear that the projected top-10 QB (Fields) was avoiding passing Surtain's way almost the entire game. When you spend a high 1st rd pick on a player, you want him to step in right away and play at a high level, making your team better. Surtain is ready to do that. Is Farley? Is Horn? 

There’s no doubt in my mind Surtain will wind up a really solid corner at the next level but at 6 I want an elite player and I just don’t see that in him or any other DB for that matter in this class.

And playing at Bama at a high level doesn’t quarantee you succes at the next level. Just look at Dee Milliner...also taken high, never panned out.

[brkmsn]

18 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

There’s no doubt in my mind Surtain will wind up a really solid corner at the next level but at 6 I want an elite player and I just don’t see that in him or any other DB for that matter in this class.

And playing at Bama at a high level doesn’t quarantee you succes at the next level. Just look at Dee Milliner...also taken high, never panned out.

I'm not sure what constitutes an "elite" player in everybody's mind. For a CB are we talking Revis-level or someone that can be a (not the)  top performer at his position for a few years (like Troy Vincent)? I just want to understand better. I would absolutely use a #6 for a Troy Vincent.

As for Milliner, he checked some of the boxes I mentioned, but most of his value was "projected ceiling" based on rare athleticism. He needed coaching to fulfill his potential. He seemed to be responding to it before injuries derailed his career. 

[JetroLot]

43 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

 

So why should a team consider Surtain in the top 10 this year? Because he checks all the boxes. He has the size and speed you want (short area quickness is probably the only question). He's a technician way ahead of all the others in this draft. He didn't "opt out" in 2020 and has played at a high level more than 1 college season. He comes from the top college football program that plays in the toughest conference. His team has been successful and is coming off a Championship win. In that championship game, it was clear that the projected top-10 QB (Fields) was avoiding passing Surtain's way almost the entire game. When you spend a high 1st rd pick on a player, you want him to step in right away and play at a high level, making your team better. Surtain is ready to do that. Is Farley? Is Horn? 

Does he? Speed is something I'm really not seeing a ton of. He doesn't turn and light it up. 

I think Horn is, yes. Need to watch Farley. 

I'm not telling you Surtain isn't a good player. He's extremely good. I wouldn't touch him at 6 right now though. In fact, finding very few players I would touch at 6. 

[Ray75]

48 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I'm not sure what constitutes an "elite" player in everybody's mind. For a CB are we talking Revis-level or someone that can be a (not the)  top performer at his position for a few years (like Troy Vincent)? I just want to understand better. I would absolutely use a #6 for a Troy Vincent.

As for Milliner, he checked some of the boxes I mentioned, but most of his value was "projected ceiling" based on rare athleticism. He needed coaching to fulfill his potential. He seemed to be responding to it before injuries derailed his career. 

 

45 minutes ago, stinkfist said:

Does he? Speed is something I'm really not seeing a ton of. He doesn't turn and light it up. 

I think Horn is, yes. Need to watch Farley. 

I'm not telling you Surtain isn't a good player. He's extremely good. I wouldn't touch him at 6 right now though. In fact, finding very few players I would touch at 6. 

And there you have it! This class doesn’t offer a lot of elite prospects. 

If I’d have to use the 6th overall pick on a corner, yes, I want him to be the next Revis, Ramsey, Sanders, Gilmore or Vincent, not the next Jimmy Smith, Marshon Lattimore or Marlon Humphrey. Don’t get me wrong; good players in their own right but elite?! Nah... None of Surtain, Farley or Horn are worth the 6th overall selection. In any other draft, they’d go in that 10-20 range where I’d feel much more comfortable taking them.

This draft has only a couple of players you could potentially view as somewhat elite like Lawrence, Sewell, Chase and possibly Pitts. I don’t even view Devonta Smith as elite, winning the Heisman trophy doesn’t guarantee anything IMO. Just look at Desmond Howards career. Plus he’s very, very skinny.

[time2rock]

3 hours ago, Ray75 said:

 

And there you have it! This class doesn’t offer a lot of elite prospects. 

If I’d have to use the 6th overall pick on a corner, yes, I want him to be the next Revis, Ramsey, Sanders, Gilmore or Vincent, not the next Jimmy Smith, Marshon Lattimore or Marlon Humphrey. Don’t get me wrong; good players in their own right but elite?! Nah... None of Surtain, Farley or Horn are worth the 6th overall selection. In any other draft, they’d go in that 10-20 range where I’d feel much more comfortable taking them.

This draft has only a couple of players you could potentially view as somewhat elite like Lawrence, Sewell, Chase and possibly Pitts. I don’t even view Devonta Smith as elite, winning the Heisman trophy doesn’t guarantee anything IMO. Just look at Desmond Howards career. Plus he’s very, very skinny.

Completely agree with your POV on the CBs in this class and with those you included that have the most potential to be elite.  Maybe add Parsons to that latter list but a lot of that will depend largely on where he ends up (what defensive scheme they employ).  Hard to say if he would be a good fit here since everything is going to be completely new.

[Ray75]

25 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Completely agree with your POV on the CBs in this class and with those you included that have the most potential to be elite.  Maybe add Parsons to that latter list but a lot of that will depend largely on where he ends up (what defensive scheme they employ).  Hard to say if he would be a good fit here since everything is going to be completely new.

Yes, Parsons! How could I forget?! Thx!

Personally I’d wait until the 2nd or 3rd to address LB. The meat with prospects like Bolton, Moses, Surratt, Browning and Cox is there anyway...

[time2rock]

26 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Yes, Parsons! How could I forget?! Thx!

Personally I’d wait until the 2nd or 3rd to address LB. The meat with prospects like Bolton, Moses, Surratt, Browning and Cox is there anyway...

Again, completely agree.  I like Parsons quite a bit but I really want Chase with our 1st.  Then go CB with one of either Samuel Jr., Horn, or Campbell (depending on who is there) with our 2nd.  In the 3rd I'd go either LB with one of those you mentioned or S if someone like Cisco is sitting there.  

[Ray75]

14 hours ago, time2rock said:

Again, completely agree.  I like Parsons quite a bit but I really want Chase with our 1st.  Then go CB with one of either Samuel Jr., Horn, or Campbell (depending on who is there) with our 2nd.  In the 3rd I'd go either LB with one of those you mentioned or S if someone like Cisco is sitting there.  

Where on the same page but I want to throw in another wrinkle; if Howie is able to create some wiggle room, I can easily see them bringing in someone like Anthony Walker, Malik Hooker (one year deal) and/or TJ Carrie which would give them some flexibility entering the draft.

[time2rock]

30 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Where on the dame page bit I want to throw in another wrinkle; if Howie is able to create some wiggle room, I can easily see them bringing in someone like Anthony Walker, Malik Hooker (one year deal) and/or TJ Carrie which would give them some flexibility entering the draft.

That could be in play, but I am hoping to use this next down year (or 2) to add longer term building blocks. 

[Wentz_Era]

On 1/27/2021 at 1:56 AM, stinkfist said:

He plays man pretty damn well. Just take a look at his highlights when he's in man and a few things I'll point out that I like. I wish I knew how to make a damn video. I'm so old. 🤣

If he is playing inside leverage on the outside, you'll notice he will do one of two things immediately:

1. Throw a hand up that makes zero contact and then throw a second that makes contact. That first hand is to make the WR give his route away immediately because he thinks contact is coming. Second hand then starts to drive to the sideline which is obviously your buddy. He's super well coached there. 

2. Keeps his body parallel to everyone and if he opens his hips, he opens them again, toward the sideline and then escorts the route that way. 

Surtain is winning 80% of the time just doing that. To be honest, it's what actually worries me about him. He's so technically proficient that I worry a little bit what happens against receivers that know how to beat that. 

There's film of him running press bail at Alabama. Press bail is something you never seen run anymore. That's what they used to let Morris Claiborne run at LSU under Jon Chavis. You're essentially saying, "my cornerback is the fastest and best athlete on the field and you can't beat him." 

I don't think that Surtain is the fastest or best athlete on the field, but they ran press bail with him. That's ballsy. 

My question with him right now is, how fast is he? And I don't mean the 40. Don't care about that. Can you turn and burn? I have a little bit of concern there. 

I don't think any of the corners are worth taking at 6th overall right now. 

Bama plays the LCB (most times RCB too) almost exclusively in bail, they've done it for 10+ years now.

So constructive argument, point me to some stuff to watch so I can see this technical proficiency.  When I've watched him, he doesn't sit or open well.  It leads to him having poor plays on the ball.  Almost every 'highlight' is a drop or his stupid long arms breaking the pass up.  He gets very little on his jumps because he seems very flat footed trying to flip his hips.  He doesn't dominate challenging downfield.  He's at his best when he can attack what's in front of him.  That's why I think with his size and athleticism he's going to be a hybrid CB/LB/S much like Jenkins/Minkah at the NFL level.  

[Wentz_Era]

23 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I'm not sure what constitutes an "elite" player in everybody's mind. For a CB are we talking Revis-level or someone that can be a (not the)  top performer at his position for a few years (like Troy Vincent)? I just want to understand better. I would absolutely use a #6 for a Troy Vincent.

As for Milliner, he checked some of the boxes I mentioned, but most of his value was "projected ceiling" based on rare athleticism. He needed coaching to fulfill his potential. He seemed to be responding to it before injuries derailed his career. 

Meh, he was just another one of the overhyped Bama CB's.  I never saw anything with his play in the NFL that was an improvement or him 'taking to coaching' from my POV.  He wasn't even that special of an athlete either, at least watching him on tape.  Combine, sure he tested good.

[philafan4o8]

On 1/29/2021 at 6:27 AM, Wentz_Era said:

Bama plays the LCB (most times RCB too) almost exclusively in bail, they've done it for 10+ years now.

So constructive argument, point me to some stuff to watch so I can see this technical proficiency.  When I've watched him, he doesn't sit or open well.  It leads to him having poor plays on the ball.  Almost every 'highlight' is a drop or his stupid long arms breaking the pass up.  He gets very little on his jumps because he seems very flat footed trying to flip his hips.  He doesn't dominate challenging downfield.  He's at his best when he can attack what's in front of him.  That's why I think with his size and athleticism he's going to be a hybrid CB/LB/S much like Jenkins/Minkah at the NFL level.  

Completely agree. I have stated this several times. His ball skills are below average. Technique (with ball skills) needs work. Benefitted from a great front. Not saying he is going to be a bum but I dont think he is worth #6.

[JetroLot]

2 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

Bama plays the LCB (most times RCB too) almost exclusively in bail, they've done it for 10+ years now.

So constructive argument, point me to some stuff to watch so I can see this technical proficiency.  When I've watched him, he doesn't sit or open well.  It leads to him having poor plays on the ball.  Almost every 'highlight' is a drop or his stupid long arms breaking the pass up.  He gets very little on his jumps because he seems very flat footed trying to flip his hips.  He doesn't dominate challenging downfield.  He's at his best when he can attack what's in front of him.  That's why I think with his size and athleticism he's going to be a hybrid CB/LB/S much like Jenkins/Minkah at the NFL level.  

You want me to teach you how to watch a corner? OK. Um ... let me find videos for you. Alabama does not run "almost exclusively in bail". They play bail and press. Diggs played the same thing. 

If you need taught, ummm, I guess here? I don't know, I don't ever send links to people to teach them how to watch a corner. I disagree with your assessment because it's just factually incorrect. 

Surtain in press absolutely eating. 

Surtain in bail getting eaten by Seth Williams and then in press as well. 

I mean, use Google or YouTube man. 

I watch games. This is what I could find for you. 

When you come into a conversation with someone and say "constructive argument" while stating your opinions as facts, it's really hard to even take you seriously. 

[Wentz_Era]

1 hour ago, stinkfist said:

You want me to teach you how to watch a corner? OK. Um ... let me find videos for you. Alabama does not run "almost exclusively in bail". They play bail and press. Diggs played the same thing. 

If you need taught, ummm, I guess here? I don't know, I don't ever send links to people to teach them how to watch a corner. I disagree with your assessment because it's just factually incorrect. 

Surtain in press absolutely eating. 

Surtain in bail getting eaten by Seth Williams and then in press as well. 

I mean, use Google or YouTube man. 

I watch games. This is what I could find for you. 

When you come into a conversation with someone and say "constructive argument" while stating your opinions as facts, it's really hard to even take you seriously. 

So your opinions are facts, which automatically makes someone else's wrong? I stated what I've seen and I know what I'm watching as well as far as technique. 

Also, sorry I missed putting the word press in there as well.  My point was they've played their CB's the same no matter the player over the years.  

I asked for tape on him that shows what you said technique wise, not him getting eaten alive in coverage (as the RCB).  I'm genuinely curious what people are watching that makes them love him.  I have not seen it.

So you should probably not try to come at people sideways trying to have a discussion on a discussion board.