Has our offense ever looked so boring?

[wtfcares]

Apart from the final drives in the Giants and Ravens games, has our offense ever looked so unintuitive and boring? There is no doubt Wentz is having a rough season, but it also isn’t like he’s missing open guys. Most of the turnovers are coming from plays where he is trying to make a play by either holding the ball too long waiting for the route to develop, or throwing into tight coverage. While that’s partially on him for not throwing the ball away, it’s also on the offense not giving him anything to throw to. You can’t throw the ball away every play. 
 

I look around the league and I see teams routinely creating plays where they can scheme their skill players open to make plays. I can’t recall the last time we saw a pass to an even remotely open player. It’s always a contested catch everytime. With the emergence of Fulgam, the return of Reagor and Goedert, we simply can’t blame that all on injuries anymore. The players are there, where we should be getting at least a handful of plays in a game. 
 

That leaves me with coaching staff to blame. The scheming is just completely unacceptable. They need to find creative ways to get the ball to their skill players in space. If they can’t figure it out on their own, go steal some plays from another team. Why is every pass to the outside? What happened to our middle of the field passing that Carson is so good at? Apart from a 5 yard slant to Ward once or twice a game there’s been nothing to the middle. If this doesn’t improve by the end of the season, I’m ready to move on from Doug. He’s a great guy who the team seems to love and battle for but he’s just failing on offense. We’ve seen Wentz be effective and win with a good OC in Reich. Since Reich has left we’ve seen nothing from Doug to suggest can create good offensive play. 

[EagleMatt]

Wentz is trash. Feels like Chip and Bradford era all over again.

Upside, Fulgham is a bonafide starter.

[EazyEaglez]

The offense looks undisciplined.... no let me be clear this quarterback looks undisciplined. I see Fulgham out there and he’s a gamer. In fact I see when the quarterback actually puts the ball in the right spots most of his receivers step up and make plays. We are gushing cause Carson has a great series against a bad football team and his fanboys want to claim he’s elite ignoring the three quarters of the game he keeps giving the ball to the other team. You don’t score when you keep giving the ball away. It’s not the coaches that is the problem. It’s the idiot QB taking a horrible sack fumble. It’s the dumb quarterback who thinks he’s "giving his guys a chance” by throwing them the ball in double coverage. They told us this guy had a photographic memory and he was able to absorb the entire playbook. Clearly he doesn’t understand what the defenses are throwing at him. He’s the main problem and I don’t want to hear anything about injuries when a good majority of his mistakes are directly related to him holding the ball way too long. They need to fix the quarterback, but unfortunately I highly doubt this guy understands he needs to change. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

47 minutes ago, wtfcares said:

Apart from the final drives in the Giants and Ravens games, has our offense ever looked so unintuitive and boring? There is no doubt Wentz is having a rough season, but it also isn’t like he’s missing open guys. Most of the turnovers are coming from plays where he is trying to make a play by either holding the ball too long waiting for the route to develop, or throwing into tight coverage. While that’s partially on him for not throwing the ball away, it’s also on the offense not giving him anything to throw to. You can’t throw the ball away every play. 
 

I look around the league and I see teams routinely creating plays where they can scheme their skill players open to make plays. I can’t recall the last time we saw a pass to an even remotely open player. It’s always a contested catch everytime. With the emergence of Fulgam, the return of Reagor and Goedert, we simply can’t blame that all on injuries anymore. The players are there, where we should be getting at least a handful of plays in a game. 
 

That leaves me with coaching staff to blame. The scheming is just completely unacceptable. They need to find creative ways to get the ball to their skill players in space. If they can’t figure it out on their own, go steal some plays from another team. Why is every pass to the outside? What happened to our middle of the field passing that Carson is so good at? Apart from a 5 yard slant to Ward once or twice a game there’s been nothing to the middle. If this doesn’t improve by the end of the season, I’m ready to move on from Doug. He’s a great guy who the team seems to love and battle for but he’s just failing on offense. We’ve seen Wentz be effective and win with a good OC in Reich. Since Reich has left we’ve seen nothing from Doug to suggest can create good offensive play. 

Counterpoint, it is like he's missing open guys, not picking up blitzes, eating sacks because he won't throw it away and fumbling like a highschooler with a bra fastener his first time getting to second base.

If this was McNabb, Foles, Bradford, Vick, Kolb, Sanchez, Barkley or any other player who'd played QB for the Eagles in the last 15 years, there would be nowhere near the reluctance to point the finger at the QB. In 2018 people were clamoring for Wentz to come back from injury after Foles went 35/48 for 334 yards 1TD and no picks against Tampa, that's 2 games after he was Superbowl MVP. 

That's where the issues start, Wentz never had to work for the starting job, never had any concern that he might not get back in, he's had it demonstrated to him time and again that it's his job pretty much come what may and it's starting to show in his regression and body language.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, wtfcares said:

Apart from the final drives in the Giants and Ravens games, has our offense ever looked so unintuitive and boring? There is no doubt Wentz is having a rough season, but it also isn’t like he’s missing open guys. Most of the turnovers are coming from plays where he is trying to make a play by either holding the ball too long waiting for the route to develop, or throwing into tight coverage. While that’s partially on him for not throwing the ball away, it’s also on the offense not giving him anything to throw to. You can’t throw the ball away every play. 

So a couple of things here:

Firstly yes Wentz is missing open guys. OK not on every play but he is. The interception against... Pittsburgh I think it was where he tried to get the ball to Ertz and it was picked off? Sanders was supposed to be the read there and Sanders was open. He's missed Fulgham open at times. He's missed Ward open at times. So look Doug deserves criticism for the way he has called games this year but he's being significantly hampered by his QB. I mean if his QB executes, if his QB looks even half decent then this offense functions better than it has and Doug probably doesn't look quite as bad (still bad but not this bad).

Secondly, yes Wentz is trying to make plays by holding the ball too long but why? Why is he incapable of putting two hands on the ball to protect it better? Why is he so desperate to make a play on every single down that he's hurting this team? He isn't learning. He isn't maturing. There is no defense for that, absolutely none. I agree you can't throw it away every time but he rarely throws it away. The first fumble today was just a complete mess on his part but how many times do we have to see this before he starts to mature?

[PoconoDon]

2 hours ago, EagleMatt said:

Wentz is trash. Feels like Chip and Bradford era all over again.

Upside, Fulgham is a bonafide starter.

Wentz needs to answer to his boss on that coaching staff, whoever that may be. He needs more guidance and direction and less autonomy. He's clearly not ready to be left to his own devices. When DeFilippo was riding him hard, he played great. Some people respond to that style even if they whine about it. Somebody there needs to be Carson's boss, period.

[NCTANK]

the entire offense has been in a 3 year funk since the super bowl win. 

do the math.

[time2rock]

36 minutes ago, NCTANK said:

the entire offense has been in a 3 year funk since the super bowl win. 

do the math.

^^^^

THIS

[20dawk4life]

This is what happens when your oline sucks. It's been overrated for years. 

For all the Foles nut huggers look how bad he was vs the saints because his oline sucks. 

Andy was right you win in the trenches. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, 20dawk4life said:

This is what happens when your oline sucks. It's been overrated for years. 

For all the Foles nut huggers look how bad he was vs the saints because his oline sucks. 

Andy was right you win in the trenches. 

Does the OL suck? Brooks when healthy is the best RG (or second best RG) in the league. Lane is the best RT and up until last year JP was still playing at a good level. And Kelce is one of the best centers in the league. Injuries have depleted this OL this year but I am not sure our OL has been overrated for years.

[Sturm]

9 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

This is what happens when your oline sucks. It's been overrated for years. 

For all the Foles nut huggers look how bad he was vs the saints because his oline sucks. 

Andy was right you win in the trenches. 

Sorry but its not about Foles nut hugging. Despite how I and others feel about Foles he is gone. This is 2020 and we have a QB who for some reason is hailed as a HoF when he is clearly trash. He is given WAY to much leeway and no one NO ONE will crack him down. Its bloody crazy. If it was ANY other QB that we have he would have been benched by week 3. I am just sick to my stomach that this is the product that the Eagles give us.

[nipples]

17 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

This is what happens when your oline sucks. It's been overrated for years. 

For all the Foles nut huggers look how bad he was vs the saints because his oline sucks. 

Andy was right you win in the trenches. 

The offensive line doesn’t force Wentz to make terrible decisions, hold the ball forever and have horrible mechanics leading to inconsistent accuracy. 
 

Even last night, everyone is going to blame the line or play call for the second fumble. But that wasn’t the case. Dallas was bringing the blitz, and when more rushers are coming than there are blockers, someone will be coming free. It’s the QB’s job to recognize where the blitz is coming from, and pull the trigger QUICK to get the ball into the void left by the blitzers. On that play he had TWO receivers open a couple yards beyond the first down right in the middle of the field where the heat was coming from. He needs to recognize that and get the ball out fast. 

[20dawk4life]

17 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Does the OL suck? Brooks when healthy is the best RG (or second best RG) in the league. Lane is the best RT and up until last year JP was still playing at a good level. And Kelce is one of the best centers in the league. Injuries have depleted this OL this year but I am not sure our OL has been overrated for years.

Brooks is in and out of the lineup depending on Lane. He's a great player when he's in and focused but that can change week to week. 

Lane is probably the best RT in the league. 

Kelce only looks good with two good guards and when being used to block LBs. He's still a liability against nose tackles. 

LG has been an embarrassment for years.

JP has been declining rapidly since 2016. It's partly why there wasn't a huge drop off in play between him and Big V in 2017. 

This year the oline is a mess once again. When the qb doesn't feel comfortable in the pocketnto set his feet and deliver the ball you end up with crap plays. It's not all the oline but the oline is doing no one any favors for at least two years. 

[20dawk4life]

13 minutes ago, Sturm said:

Sorry but its not about Foles nut hugging. Despite how I and others feel about Foles he is gone. This is 2020 and we have a QB who for some reason is hailed as a HoF when he is clearly trash. He is given WAY to much leeway and no one NO ONE will crack him down. Its bloody crazy. If it was ANY other QB that we have he would have been benched by week 3. I am just sick to my stomach that this is the product that the Eagles give us.

Wentz is far from perfect, and needs to be held accountable. So does the oline. I get it this year we have a million injuries but the oline has been crap for two years. Constant pressure from the A and B gaps on the left side. JP being too slow to set the edge vs speed rushers. Any QB behind this line short of Manning and Brady would suck. That includes Foles. 

[GeorgeM37]

3 hours ago, EagleMatt said:

Wentz is trash. Feels like Chip and Bradford era all over again.

Upside, Fulgham is a bonafide starter.

^^^^^ THIS

I don't understand how anyone can even remotely continue to defend Wentz. His numbers were damn near identical to their third stringer. And how many times has he said he was not going to change?? Every year I look forward to the dallas game because I always want us to destroy them but I was bored to tears last night. So much so, that I started drinking wine (and I don't drink wine at all) and doing other things. I feels EXACTLY like I am watching chip and sam all over again. When McNabb got into a funk, not only was he benched but the fans (including this board) went ballistic calling for his job.  I don't see this at all with wentz, its like....no matter how bad he shows us consistently.....people actually want him to still be our QB.

I do not want to hear any "he is our QB so just deal with it" from his fanboys/girls. Every other quarterback who showed us trash got hammered so why is this ginger dude such an exception???

In year five, he is who he is....THAT is what everybody needs to deal with and accept. I see nothing from him that shows he will develop into a Brees, Rogers, Wilson type QB ever.....

One more time: against the worst defense in the league, his stats mirrored their third stringer......

[20dawk4life]

11 minutes ago, nipples said:

The offensive line doesn’t force Wentz to make terrible decisions, hold the ball forever and have horrible mechanics leading to inconsistent accuracy. 
 

Even last night, everyone is going to blame the line or play call for the second fumble. But that wasn’t the case. Dallas was bringing the blitz, and when more rushers are coming than there are blockers, someone will be coming free. It’s the QB’s job to recognize where the blitz is coming from, and pull the trigger QUICK to get the ball into the void left by the blitzers. On that play he had TWO receivers open a couple yards beyond the first down right in the middle of the field where the heat was coming from. He needs to recognize that and get the ball out fast. 

If you want that you need to redesign the offense. Doug does not use hot routes. Making that quick decision to hit the open man doesn't exist in this offense. Wentz definitely holds the ball too long but vs the blitz he's been money for years when we ran RPOs with him. You're issue is with the coaching now. 

[nipples]

1 minute ago, 20dawk4life said:

If you want that you need to redesign the offense. Doug does not use hot routes. Making that quick decision to hit the open man doesn't exist in this offense. Wentz definitely holds the ball too long but vs the blitz he's been money for years when we ran RPOs with him. You're issue is with the coaching now. 

Please,  now you’re reaching. It’s QB 101. Blitz comes, you immediately look to where the blitzers came from because it will almost always be open, and it was wide open here. 

[Sturm]

Just now, 20dawk4life said:

Wentz is far from perfect, and needs to be held accountable. So does the oline. I get it this year we have a million injuries but the oline has been crap for two years. Constant pressure from the A and B gaps on the left side. JP being too slow to set the edge vs speed rushers. Any QB behind this line short of Manning and Brady would suck. That includes Foles. 

2018 , 2019 , 2020 Wentz has looked like this. Even when our Oline was healthy in 2018 Wentz still looked between Bad to Ok. He had an amazing 2017 and thats it. Most starting QBs in this league have at least 1 wonderful year. Wentz plays for past 3 years has showen Heathly Oline or Not he is not an elite QB. You are also wrong about just Manning and Brady, what about Russel? His Oline has been trash for years and he turns water into wine. Then you have Kyler who Oline has been trash his 2 starting years and he looks a lot better than carson. Then you have Ravens Oline who has been OK this year and Lamar is killing it. hell the BENGALS have a terrible Oline but Borrow still finds ways to get the ball out.

should I keep going? A Elite QB the way we pay Carson should still be able to work under a bad oline.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

LG has been an embarrassment for years

Seumalo has been solid the last year or two... Wiz was good in 2017. You can't have studs at every OL position bud.

[20dawk4life]

5 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Seumalo has been solid the last year or two... Wiz was good in 2017. You can't have studs at every OL position bud.

Seumalo is garbage. He constantly gives up pressure and gets fooled by stunts every game. 

Wiz eventually turned into a good player after we rotated him around with Chance Warmack and Seumalo. 

You don't need studs. You need NFL players. 

[20dawk4life]

16 minutes ago, Sturm said:

2018 , 2019 , 2020 Wentz has looked like this. Even when our Oline was healthy in 2018 Wentz still looked between Bad to Ok. He had an amazing 2017 and thats it. Most starting QBs in this league have at least 1 wonderful year. Wentz plays for past 3 years has showen Heathly Oline or Not he is not an elite QB. You are also wrong about just Manning and Brady, what about Russel? His Oline has been trash for years and he turns water into wine. Then you have Kyler who Oline has been trash his 2 starting years and he looks a lot better than carson. Then you have Ravens Oline who has been OK this year and Lamar is killing it. hell the BENGALS have a terrible Oline but Borrow still finds ways to get the ball out.

should I keep going? A Elite QB the way we pay Carson should still be able to work under a bad oline.

Lol. Kyler, Wilson, and Lamar all make and extend plays with their legs. The Seahawks oline has improved the last two years and so have Wilsons numbers. The Ravens don't have a bad oline, in fact they are pretty good. Kyler completed 37 percent of his passes against the cowboys. 37 percent. The Bengals also do not have a bad oline, see joe mixons numbers. It's fine if you don't watch other teams and want to have double standards for Wentz. I can admit his flaws, you just can't admit anyone else's. 

20 minutes ago, nipples said:

Please,  now you’re reaching. It’s QB 101. Blitz comes, you immediately look to where the blitzers came from because it will almost always be open, and it was wide open here. 

I'm not reaching. Watch the games. There's no hot routes. You're issue isn't with doug here not Wentz. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

12 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

Seumalo is garbage. He constantly gives up pressure and gets fooled by stunts every game. 

Wiz eventually turned into a good player after we rotated him around with Chance Warmack and Seumalo. 

You don't need studs. You need NFL players. 

Seumalo is decent. Herbig has been playing fairly well too.

[20dawk4life]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Seumalo is decent. Herbig has been playing fairly well too.

Not really. Herbig allows pressure every game up the A gap. He's too fat and slow to slide on stunts so he continues with his man into the LT allowing the DE a free rush up the middle while Kelce is busy going to the right side to try and help this weeks RG. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, 20dawk4life said:

Not really. Herbig allows pressure every game up the A gap. He's too fat and slow to slide on stunts so he continues with his man into the LT allowing the DE a free rush up the middle while Kelce is busy going to the right side to try and help this weeks RG. 

I can see you're feeling positive today buddy... 😁

[DeathByEagle]

The problem is Doug, not Wentz

I was at the game last night, and I saw the same thing as usual. No recs are getting open. When you guys are watching these games on TV you cant see all teh recs and coverage, they are just not getting open. Wentz is trying to buy time to get someone, anyone open which is creating these fumble issues. Now yes, he needs to be smarter with just throwing away the ball. But the play design is just so plain Jane the defense knows whats coming. Zero creativity in scheme. Everything is the same comeback route on the outside and a go route. 

The Cowboys are a fast pace blitzing team. Doug should have been game planning for RPOs, crosses, drags, slants, uses the Hb in the flats, swings, wheels. Mix some short outs, curls in there. Routes that get the ball out fast and can flood areas to open up the zone that Dallas likes to play on the back end. Doug had a week and a half to game plan for this and failed in all areas. 

Now the other issues is these recs. Reagor yes it waas his first game back, but he is the fault of the Wentz INT. When Wentz threw that ball Reagor had a step on both DBs, you can see him give up and slow down at the back end which results in the DB running by him to pick it off. Maybe Jalen thought Wentz was throwing it out of bounds but you never give up on a route till the play is dead. This is the 2nnd pick that was his fault in his short career. Week 1 he ran a lazy comeback route that he never came back, he faded outside which lead to the DB jumping the route. 

Now for Hightower and the 2nd pick. This one could be either or. Wentz said where the DB was in position the right spot to place the ball is outside, where he threw the ball and Hightoiwer was not on the same page and cut inside. There is a major disconnect between these recs and Wentz. Seams only Travis is making the plays and going after the ball. 

Until Doug gives up play calling, game planning this team and Wentz will fail and not be successful. This team is not prepared each and every week. this falls on Doug.