Time to point the finger at Press Taylor

[ToDie4Eagles]

1 hour ago, Br3 said:

And what is Press doing about it to help his qb

Yup. G Lew and Walch were both canned for poor WR play, mechanics, etc.  Buddy boy Press gets a pass though (no pun intended).

[nipples]

11 hours ago, Br3 said:

And what is Press doing about it to help his qb

What can he do? Sometimes you need to put the accountability on the player. Wentz has ALWAYS held the ball too long, and has always been careless with it whether in the pocket or while running. That includes 2017. He had a great season, but those particular problems were still there. 

[Columbus Eagle]

It’s either Press can’t coach Wentz or Wentz can’t be coached by Press. Either way, something needs to change and quick. He’s not progressing like he should. He’s too inconsistent to be our franchise QB. I hope he gets there, but it’s clear that Press is helping. 

[Columbus Eagle]

11 hours ago, nipples said:

What can he do? Sometimes you need to put the accountability on the player. Wentz has ALWAYS held the ball too long, and has always been careless with it whether in the pocket or while running. That includes 2017. He had a great season, but those particular problems were still there. 

Holding onto the ball too long is 100% on Wentz. He will always try to make something happen on every play. I can respect that but he needs to learn to take what’s there. And when there’s nothing there, throw the ‘**** ball away. 

[Runtherock]

He’s just a kid, really, and does not have the cache to coach an un- coachable quarterback.

[CaliEagle]

On 11/7/2020 at 4:55 PM, Columbus Eagle said:

It’s either Press can’t coach Wentz or Wentz can’t be coached by Press. Either way, something needs to change and quick. He’s not progressing like he should. He’s too inconsistent to be our franchise QB. I hope he gets there, but it’s clear that Press is helping. 

I do think most of the issues are Wentz's issues, but I think he would do better with an older, more seasoned QB coach who won't put up with what is going on. But, Doug and Howie would have to be on the same page with how the QB coach coaches up Wentz or how the coach critiques Wentz. If they won't allow the QB coach to coach Wentz hard, then it defeats the purpose.  

[Mike030270]

On 11/6/2020 at 8:55 PM, nipples said:

Poor mechanics maybe you can put partly on the coach, but I’m sorry I cannot blame anyone but Carson himself for the terrible ball security, poor decisions and holding the ball too long. 

QBs hold the ball when there's no one open though so that's on the receivers IMO

[nipples]

21 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

QBs hold the ball when there's no one open though so that's on the receivers IMO

Two things.

First, that isn’t always the case. There have been plenty of times this year where Wentz kept holding the ball with receivers open. He just wasn’t seeing them.  And two, if nobody is open, throw the damn ball away and live to play another down. Don’t just take a horrible sack and/or fumble the ball. 
 

You are pretty much absolving Wentz of any blame. It’s the coach’s fault that his mechanics suck, and it’s the receivers’ fault that he holds the ball forever until he’s sacked or fumbled. I’d love to hear whose fault it is when he makes stupid throws into double (or triple) coverage. 

[Runtherock]

1 hour ago, CaliEagle said:

I do think most of the issues are Wentz's issues, but I think he would do better with an older, more seasoned QB coach who won't put up with what is going on. But, Doug and Howie would have to be on the same page with how the QB coach coaches up Wentz or how the coach critiques Wentz. If they won't allow the QB coach to coach Wentz hard, then it defeats the purpose.  

And every time Wentz talks about "not changing” its evident he’s not receiving hard coaching from anyone. Its mind boggling that he would talk this way after being one of the worse quarterbacks in the league at the half way point. 

[brkmsn]

3 hours ago, Runtherock said:

And every time Wentz talks about "not changing” its evident he’s not receiving hard coaching from anyone. Its mind boggling that he would talk this way after being one of the worse quarterbacks in the league at the half way point. 

It's not like Wentz is saying, "I'm making bad decisions, missing open receivers, over-thowing the occasional pass, and being careless with the ball, but that's just me and I'm not changing a thing." Of course that's the picture you and others are trying to paint when you take his actual statements out of context. He said he needs to be better, play better, and he can't keep turning the ball over. He accepts the blame for his failures and the team's. When he talks about not changing his aggressive style, he's talking about extending plays, running with the ball, giving guys a chance to get open deep even if it means he'll take a hit. He's saying he's not going to become gun shy out there just because of all the hits, and sacks he's taken or because of the ever-changing O-line and skill position line-ups. He knows he needs to play better and believes he can. He's going to trust whoever is out there with him to do their jobs and is going to continue to try to do what this offense is supposed to do. 

You guys are nuts, always trying to twist things to sound shockingly bad. It's amazing to me that some of you can't even understand what a guy is trying to say in a press conference. I have to wonder if English is your first language at times.

[Runtherock]

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

It's not like Wentz is saying, "I'm making bad decisions, missing open receivers, over-thowing the occasional pass, and being careless with the ball, but that's just me and I'm not changing a thing." Of course that's the picture you and others are trying to paint when you take his actual statements out of context. He said he needs to be better, play better, and he can't keep turning the ball over. He accepts the blame for his failures and the team's. When he talks about not changing his aggressive style, he's talking about extending plays, running with the ball, giving guys a chance to get open deep even if it means he'll take a hit. He's saying he's not going to become gun shy out there just because of all the hits, and sacks he's taken or because of the ever-changing O-line and skill position line-ups. He knows he needs to play better and believes he can. He's going to trust whoever is out there with him to do their jobs and is going to continue to try to do what this offense is supposed to do. 

You guys are nuts, always trying to twist things to sound shockingly bad. It's amazing to me that some of you can't even understand what a guy is trying to say in a press conference. I have to wonder if English is your first language at times.

He’s saying he’s not going to change "hero ball,” and until he does nothing else he says or does matters. That’s the bottom line. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Runtherock said:

He’s saying he’s not going to change "hero ball,” and until he does nothing else he says or does matters. That’s the bottom line. 

I mean at least he's got conviction that what he's doing is the right thing...

[brkmsn]

6 hours ago, Runtherock said:

He’s saying he’s not going to change "hero ball,” and until he does nothing else he says or does matters. That’s the bottom line. 

That's what you believe he says and what you believe will happen. That's not what he said, nor is your dire prediction some kind of truth. 

"There are too many turnovers, I got to be better."

"I can be better and put the ball in the right spot, but I am not going to change my aggressive mentality. We're going to start connecting on some of those big plays and obviously it hurt a little bit today, but the defense played great and we got the win."

"I am not good enough, I am pumped we got the win but I am going to have to watch the tape and I'm a little frustrated on how I played and how we left some plays out there, missed some big opportunities and I can be better."

"I know I can play better and a lot of it is coming down to taking care of the football. I feel I am still the same aggressive guy that's going to pull the trigger and I never want to change that, but just being smart and putting it in the right spot."

Now Pederson:

"I have to do what I feel is in the best interest of the football team,” Pederson said. "We practice these situations all the time. I do have to be smart. Game-by-game, you have to make smart decisions, and you gotta trust our players, trust our quarterback, trust our schemes. How well is our defense playing? There’s all of that, that factors into the aggressiveness factor for us.”

"I guess you’re asking me if I could have run the ball when we were up 17-0, the rest of the game, yeah, that’s being less aggressive, but I’m going to do what I feel is in the best interest of the football team. We cannot turn the ball over. There’s all kinds of things that we can point the finger at. I can do a better job with a couple of play calls, throughout the game.”

"As far as the aggressiveness goes, I’m still going to maintain the aggressiveness. … A 17-0 lead or a 27-10 lead in any football game in this league is not enough. You have to continue to maintain aggressiveness, especially when you have momentum, right? … You gotta use that to your advantage.”

"We’ve just gotta keep talking that it’s OK to throw the ball away, it’s OK to ‘dirt’ the ball on a screen pass, or something of that nature,” Pederson said. "It’s something that we’ve just got to continue working through. ... I do believe he can learn that. I do believe that we can coach it better. You’re probably going, ‘Well, it’s a broken record,’ but it’s what we have to do.”

"If he’s holding the ball, maybe there’s a reason. Maybe we can coach the routes better. Maybe I have to call the play better.”

So in case you didn't get the memo, Wentz is an embodiment of the team's approach. This team hasn't quit on their coach and they have all "bought in." Wentz' aggressiveness is not trying to be "coached away" it's being coached and this QB and his team are confident that the result on the field can be better than it has this season. Their philosophy hasn't changed due to setbacks. 

[birdman#12]

On 11/6/2020 at 9:05 PM, Br3 said:

And what is Press doing about it to help his qb

What you guys are asking of Press Taylor is really difficult and takes alot of time.  Wentz's biggest problem is not mechanics or anything physical.....it's Wentz's mindset.  He is thinking too much and when QBs do that, everything slows down in his head.  His reads, his decision making, his release, is confidence.....he has stopped acting instinctively and starting "holding on too tight" thinking he can't make a mistake or that he has to do more.

When this happens, a receiver that has created a 2 foot separation looks like he's completely covered. Wentz is doubting he can "throw guys open".  His self added pressure is overcoming his trust in his skill players.  And that is a very difficult thing to coach out of a QB.  And Pedersen's poor play calling isn't helping either.

There is an old coaching method of throwing a QB confident.  Meaning, in the early part of a game, the playcalling involves using the running game and only throwing high percentage passes even if it results in short possessions.  But it can get a QB into a groove and as the game goes on, you can open up the playbook a bit more.  

Personally, if he struggles against the giants, he needs to be benched.....and not yo-yoed in an out of the lineup.  That would completely f---- him up.  Hand the reigns to Sudfeld or Hurts and let Wentz get a different perspective.  Sometime the head problem has to be overcome by his desire to play again, meaning that when he gets on the field again, he's going to play aggressive and take charge of the offense......right now, he looks too nervous and tense.  

Press Taylo,r or any QB coach, has almost no influence on this type of issue.  It's the QB and the head coach who have to work it out.

[ManchesterEagle]

On 11/8/2020 at 12:57 AM, Columbus Eagle said:

Holding onto the ball too long is 100% on Wentz. He will always try to make something happen on every play. I can respect that but he needs to learn to take what’s there. And when there’s nothing there, throw the ‘**** ball away. 

 

16 hours ago, nipples said:

Two things.

First, that isn’t always the case. There have been plenty of times this year where Wentz kept holding the ball with receivers open. He just wasn’t seeing them.  And two, if nobody is open, throw the damn ball away and live to play another down. Don’t just take a horrible sack and/or fumble the ball. 
 

You are pretty much absolving Wentz of any blame. It’s the coach’s fault that his mechanics suck, and it’s the receivers’ fault that he holds the ball forever until he’s sacked or fumbled. I’d love to hear whose fault it is when he makes stupid throws into double (or triple) coverage. 

 

5 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean at least he's got conviction that what he's doing is the right thing...

I'm not absolving the coaches of blame and as has been widely discussed, a strong OC like Reich would really help.

But Wentz has to take a lot of the blame. He's just been bad for much of this year and it's frustrating because we know he can play a lot better. I don't think he will be 2017 Wentz again, but I don't see why he can't be end of 2019 Wentz.

All quarterbacks have bad throws at times. While Wentz's mechanics are a concern at times, my main issue is with his decision making. Three particular areas trouble me:

1) Not playing the percentages. Wentz has got to be more aware of what he and his receivers can reasonably do. If a slow DT gets through, then Wentz has a good chance to see him, beat him and escape the pocket. At times though he is playing like he is Kyler Murray and thinking that he can regularly beat fast DEs or LBs or multiple players. He mostly can't. There is also a difference between throwing a jump ball to a physical receiver like Fulgham and throwing into double coverage to Reagor or Hightower.

2) Situational awareness. There are times to take chances. If it's 3rd and goal from the 6, trying to extend a play/holding the ball a little longer can be fine. If you take a sack, you still have a very makeable field goal. Same with 3rd down around mid-field. What you can't do is take a sack which pushes you out of field goal range, or throw an interception needlessly when you are up and the D is controlling the game. Throwing the ball away or taking a checkdown can also often be the right option. Set yourself up with a 2nd and 10 or 3rd and 5.

3) Protect the ball. Turnovers happen and interceptions haven't been a problem for Wentz over the years, so hopefully he cuts down. But fumbles have been. Sometimes they are unavoidable, but Wentz puts himself and the ball in harms way too often.

Wentz needs to do what he was doing at the end of last year. Take the checkdown, throw it away if nothing is there, extend the play in the right situations. 

He has the talent still, but it's really frustrating to watch. Hopefully he can turn it around in the second half.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

But Wentz has to take a lot of the blame.

Completely agree with you. Coaching and injuries are absolutely playing a part. 

But here's the thing... Injuries and coaching may be having an impact but Wentz has to be better. No doubt about it. With the injuries that we've had to deal with nobody should expect Wentz to be a top 5 QB or even a top 10 QB. Nobody should expect him to be in the MVP hunt. 

But he's being paid $130M to be a franchise QB and he's simply not been good enough. He's been a bottom 3/5 QB in the league. That is unacceptable and that has got to change. If he's even just average we probably have another win or two. 

He's been making horrible decisions, he's been forcing plays and he's been turning the ball over and that's cost this team. 

[Runtherock]

Sounds like Westbrook is done with hero ball, even if Wentz isn’t. 

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, Runtherock said:

Sounds like Westbrook is done with hero ball, even if Wentz isn’t. 

 

And Westbrook is right. What does Wentz think he's achieving with this hero ball stuff? He's hurting the team. 

[PoconoDon]

7 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And Westbrook is right. What does Wentz think he's achieving with this hero ball stuff? He's hurting the team. 

It would help if he had an experienced and established QB coach who commands his respect and compliance to tell him so. then again, that's the problem this thread is trying to identify.

Press Taylor is a smart young coach who is cutting his teeth as a QB coach while coaching a kid who despite a much interrupted developmental phase in the first 4 years, still is more experienced than Press. It's been reported and stated that they (Press and Carson) are "learning together" and that's the problem in a nutshell.

See, they are bonding as friends, which isn't bad in an of itself, but their relationship should be player/coach first and it's clearly not. Carson is free wheeling out there because he thinks it's necessary, and Taylor isn't stopping him, probably because he can't.

I say point the finger at Doug on this one. He promoted Taylor into that job before he was ready to command the QB room. He brought in 15 experienced voices but not one was put in charge of Carson Wentz to reward and/or punish according to his merits. I blame Doug for not being strict enough when it is necessary. Once you go easy, it's incredibly hard to tighten things up, but Doug is going to have to endure that backlash, or watch his star pupil continue his journey towards inconsistency and flash in the pan mediocrity.

[time2rock]

37 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

It would help if he had an experienced and established QB coach who commands his respect and compliance to tell him so. then again, that's the problem this thread is trying to identify.

Press Taylor is a smart young coach who is cutting his teeth as a QB coach while coaching a kid who despite a much interrupted developmental phase in the first 4 years, still is more experienced than Press. It's been reported and stated that they (Press and Carson) are "learning together" and that's the problem in a nutshell.

See, they are bonding as friends, which isn't bad in an of itself, but their relationship should be player/coach first and it's clearly not. Carson is free wheeling out there because he thinks it's necessary, and Taylor isn't stopping him, probably because he can't.

I say point the finger at Doug on this one. He promoted Taylor into that job before he was ready to command the QB room. He brought in 15 experienced voices but not one was put in charge of Carson Wentz to reward and/or punish according to his merits. I blame Doug for not being strict enough when it is necessary. Once you go easy, it's incredibly hard to tighten things up, but Doug is going to have to endure that backlash, or watch his star pupil continue his journey towards inconsistency and flash in the pan mediocrity.

Yup.  In another post, I likened the promotion to having promoted Groh to OC ... neither were ready for their new roles.  It's a shame Doug is unable to see these things before considering making those decisions (and why Lurie and Howie felt the need to step in after last season concluded and Doug gave Groh and Walch a strong vote of confidence).

[nipples]

On 11/4/2020 at 12:00 PM, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

That's true the drill sergeant method doesn't work in the NFL, but Doug seems to be a little too lenient.  Guys can go out there and stink the field up and never get benched, endlessly milk injuries and walk right back onto the field uncontested.  Even Andy briefly benched McNabb once or twice. 

I don’t think that’s true about guys being able to go out there and suck and not be benched, other than Wentz. He absolutely has played poorly enough to have been benched this season, and I really thought he should have been at halftime of the Dallas game. 
 

In general though, I do think Doug is good about pulling guys out who aren’t performing. Made OLine changes when performance called for it. Drastically reduced JJAW’s snaps to where he’s barely playing at all.  
 

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

14 hours ago, time2rock said:

Yup.  In another post, I likened the promotion to having promoted Groh to OC ... neither were ready for their new roles.  It's a shame Doug is unable to see these things before considering making those decisions (and why Lurie and Howie felt the need to step in after last season concluded and Doug gave Groh and Walch a strong vote of confidence).

Doug overall hasn't been very good with his coaching staff. I mean Schwartz wasn't a Doug hire and neither was Reich. And of course Duce was already here. 

[time2rock]

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Doug overall hasn't been very good with his coaching staff. I mean Schwartz wasn't a Doug hire and neither was Reich. And of course Duce was already here. 

As was Flip.  

IMO Doug really only has one thing going for him ... he gets his players to play hard for him.  It must be that "emotional intelligence" Lurie kept repeating.  I don't think he does a very good job with calling an offense, play design, or scheming to get the best out of the players he has to work with.  And I definitely agree with you ... I don't think he does a good job with hiring new coaches. But hey, he isn't as bad as Chip, so there is that.  

[EagleJoe8]

If Doug isn't allowed to hire his own staff, to me that's a bigger indictment on Lurie and Howie. We can argue all day long about Doug's judgement, but a coach should have full autonomy over his staff, and then let that be part of the rope he uses to hang himself. If Lurie can't trust Doug to fill out a staff, then he should have went with someone else.

Please Jeff, don't turn into our version of Jerry Jones.

[LesGoEagles]

On 11/3/2020 at 1:56 PM, Br3 said:

Seriously, how does this guy still have a job? 3 seasons as the qb coach and Wentz has looked worse every season. In fact, I can’t think of a single thing Wentz has gotten better at outside of maybe throwing the football away a few more times per game. Seriously I could have taught him that. Wentz calls this guy a friend and that’s the problem, he’s not hard enough on Wentz because he doesn’t want to ruin their friendship. Either that or he’s just terrible at his job. Carson and flip did not get along probably because Flip wasn’t afraid to get in his face tell him like it is and that is the kind of coaching Wentz needs because lord knows Doug won’t do it.
 

Taylor was head coach at Tulsa and friggin GK KINNE was his qb and that somehow qualifies him to work with Wentz?  GJ friggn KINNE I mean my god it’s been 10 years and I still can’t believe that kid was drafted. Didn’t he transition to WR ?? SMH these are the people we put around Wentz and then wonder why he leads the league in turnovers and barely resembles an nfl quarterback at times. 
 

Press needs to be held accountable.

 

Times yours. 

While I agree with what you said, sometimes I think its we put coaches in over their head,  Coaches need time to be groomed and taught, so a problem you run into is "having bright young coaches"' who need more seasoning  while you're in win now mode. we are in win now mode, taylor maybe the next sean mcvay or the next zach taylor whatever, but it doesnt' help us now.  Thats why I think Frank Reich was invaluable,  when you have 2 veteran guys who ahve done it in this league and command respect through experience as player and coach its hard to over look that.  Having 2 "seasoned" voices also makes it hard for a player to resist criticism or deflect it.  I think Press is like a few years older than wentz with a much less impressive resume than guys we've had.  So wentz needs a guy whoo's respected around the league for results  not potential.