Just now, pallidrone said:

But you are OK on paying billions of dollars a year on enforcement and incarceration? 

Nope, I'm not.  I mean...it was a reasonable approach until we learned it's very expensive and not very effective.

Just now, eagle45 said:

Nope, I'm not.  I mean...it was a reasonable approach until we learned it's very expensive and not very effective.

So you don't want to pay for enforcement and incarceration which means you are for legalizing drugs but you are against having rehab?

That means that the drugs are legal, and then people that do abuse them can not get the help they need, which means a portion of them will then turn to a life of crime, which means we will be paying for enforcement and incarceration again.

You cant have it both ways.

nothing else has worked. so, F it. 

1 minute ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

nothing else has worked. so, F it. 

That is my opinion. Set up some rehab clinics, put out a bunch of public service announcements about the dangers of drugs, and lets see what happens.

The amount the US spends on enforcement is incredible. We can spend a fraction of that on rehab and tax the F out of it as well.

5 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

So you don't want to pay for enforcement and incarceration which means you are for legalizing drugs but you are against having rehab?

That means that the drugs are legal, and then people that do abuse them can not get the help they need, which means a portion of them will then turn to a life of crime, which means we will be paying for enforcement and incarceration again.

You cant have it both ways.

Back it up.  I am not for aggressively funding a multi-billion dollar war on drugs which is framed as a war on people of color leading to disproportionate incarcerations.  If you want to legalize it and tax it, go for it.

But no.  If you are going to legalize something, take some responsibility for your own F-ing decisions. Don't ask the taxpayer to clean up your life for you.  If you can't get the help you need for something you wanted legalized and then turn to a life of crime....then at that point, in the 'second pass,' I have no problem with you getting your a$$ locked up.  

If it's not the government's place to tell you what you can or cannot ingest, then it's not their place to un F&*%@ the consequences.

You can't have it both ways.

1 minute ago, pallidrone said:

That is my opinion. Set up some rehab clinics, put out a bunch of public service announcements about the dangers of drugs, and lets see what happens.

The amount the US spends on enforcement is incredible. We can spend a fraction of that on rehab and tax the F out of it as well.

i have fought the idea for a while, but i'm at the point where the time, effort and expense is not worth the return. plus more importantly, the loss of life is not being diminished and probably is being increased trying to enforce the drug laws. 

let's see what happens in oregon over the next fews years and put some serious discussion into it.

As it should be. In doing volunteer work at various nonprofit organizations, I've met dozens of folks facing lifelong barriers due to non-violent drug convictions. Thankfully, the country's puritanical attitude toward recreational drug use is exponentially changing.

20 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

As it should be. In doing volunteer work at various nonprofit organizations, I've met dozens of folks facing lifelong barriers due to non-violent drug convictions. Thankfully, the country's puritanical attitude toward recreational drug use is exponentially changing.

Eh, to that I have a big whatever.

If you can’t stay off something that will put you in jail and create lifelong barriers, then perhaps it is sufficiently addicting to be illegal for a reason.  
 

But like I said...I don’t care.  Make it legal.   But it’s not the taxpayer’s responsibility to clean up the mess if someone ends up needing rehab or OD’s.

Swimming on a beach without a lifeguard can be fun.  If you want to argue the government should respect our nonviolent freedom and leave it accessible, I can buy into that.  Just don’t expect someone to jump in and save you when the rip current gets you.

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Eh, to that I have a big whatever.

If you can’t stay off something that will put you in jail and create lifelong barriers, then perhaps it is sufficiently addicting to be illegal for a reason.  
 

But like I said...I don’t care.  Make it legal.   But it’s not the taxpayer’s responsibility to clean up the mess if someone ends up needing rehab or OD’s.

Swimming on a beach without a lifeguard can be fun.  If you want to argue the government should respect our nonviolent freedom and leave it accessible, I can buy into that.  Just don’t expect someone to jump in and save you when the rip current gets you.

The taxpayers are ALREADY paying in the tune of tens of billions of dollars a year. I think you keep forgetting that part. The current system is broken and failing so why not fix it

The Bureau of Justice Statistics reckons that the United States spends more than $80 billion each year to keep roughly 2.3 million people behind bars

 

Since 1971, the war on drugs has cost the United States an estimated $1 trillion. In 2015, the federal government spent an estimated $9.2 million every day to incarcerate people charged with drug-related offenses—that’s more than $3.3 billion annually.

In contrast, marijuana legalization would save roughly $7.7 billion per year in averted enforcement costs and would yield an additional $6 billion in tax revenue. The net total—$13.7 billion—could send more than 650,000 students to public universities every year 

who is saying the government should be running the rehabs ? it doesnt have to be that way, but the cost in rehabs would be miniscule in comparison. 

3 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

The taxpayers are ALREADY paying in the tune of tens of billions of dollars a year. I think you keep forgetting that part. The current system is broken and failing so why not fix it

The Bureau of Justice Statistics reckons that the United States spends more than $80 billion each year to keep roughly 2.3 million people behind bars

 

Since 1971, the war on drugs has cost the United States an estimated $1 trillion. In 2015, the federal government spent an estimated $9.2 million every day to incarcerate people charged with drug-related offenses—that’s more than $3.3 billion annually.

In contrast, marijuana legalization would save roughly $7.7 billion per year in averted enforcement costs and would yield an additional $6 billion in tax revenue. The net total—$13.7 billion—could send more than 650,000 students to public universities every year 

Not forgetting it.  That’s why I’m not opposed to legalizing it.

3 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

who is saying the government should be running the rehabs ? it doesnt have to be that way, but the cost in rehabs would be miniscule in comparison. 

Who do you think runs them if we move to socialized medicine?

14 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Not forgetting it.  That’s why I’m not opposed to legalizing it.

Who do you think runs them if we move to socialized medicine?

like i said, the lives saved alone should make this worth looking into, but if you want to solely look at the cost effectiveness, the amount saved would be overwhelming. you wouldn't be willing spare a few bucks for that ? 

 

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Not forgetting it.  That’s why I’m not opposed to legalizing it.

Who do you think runs them if we move to socialized medicine?

But right now you are fine with throwing them in jail and throwing away the key on taxpayers money at astronomical costs. Once we say let's help our fellow human and American getting them the help they need, you say F that, no way. 

 

2 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

But right now you are fine with throwing them in jail and throwing away the key on taxpayers money at astronomical costs. Once we say let's help our fellow human and American getting them the help they need, you say F that, no way. 

 

Well of course since there is the dog whistle of the evil socialized medicine.

I hope one day people will figure out that having some kind of socialized medicine is actually a good thing if it can be done right.

5 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

But right now you are fine with throwing them in jail and throwing away the key on taxpayers money at astronomical costs. Once we say let's help our fellow human and American getting them the help they need, you say F that, no way. 

 

I just said I’m not fine with throwing them in jail and throwing away the key at astronomical cost.  

If they turn to violent crime, then yes.

And yes, F that...if someone is going to fight for legalization of drugs, then their abuse is no longer the purview of the American taxpayer.  
 

I support legalizing recreational drugs, but deal with the damn consequences yourselves.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I just said I’m not fine with throwing them in jail and throwing away the key at astronomical cost.  

If they turn to violent crime, then yes.

And yes, F that...if someone is going to fight for legalization of drugs, then their abuse is no longer the purview of the American taxpayer.  
 

I support legalizing recreational drugs, but deal with the damn consequences yourselves.

pick one. 

 

1-legalize recreational drugs, but no money at all to funds rehabs

 

2- keep it like it is 

Just now, Alpha_TATEr said:

pick one. 

 

1-legalize recreational drugs, but no money at all to funds rehabs

 

2- keep it like it is 

Dont care, not an issue that matters to me then.

Just now, eagle45 said:

Dont care, not an issue that matters to me then.

so it's true, you only care about the money.  

1 minute ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

so it's true, you only care about the money.  

With respect to drugs, abso-freaking-lutely.

If you want the taxpayer to finance your drug habit, move to Denmark or the Netherlands.  I said I’m fine with legalizing it, just not paying for the downstream effects.

If you want to take the moral high ground and talk about saving your fellow man, pick a different arena than the legalization of drugs 😂😂😂.

The American public, as a whole, wants it legalized.  Good for them.  Now figure out a way to do so while saving all of us money.  
 

Im meeting you halfway and saying legalize it.  Just don’t ask me to pay for the consequences.  

 

Just now, eagle45 said:

With respect to drugs, abso-freaking-lutely.

If you want the taxpayer to finance your drug habit, move to Denmark or the Netherlands.  I said I’m fine with legalizing it, just not paying for the downstream effects.

If you want to take the moral high ground and talk about saving your fellow man, pick a different arena than the legalization of drugs 😂😂😂.

The American public, as a whole, wants it legalized.  Good for them.  Now figure out a way to do so while saving all of us money.  
 

Im meeting you halfway and saying legalize it.  Just don’t ask me to pay for the consequences.  

 

well guess what, we already pay for the consequences so you have given up your so-called hard line in the sand. arguing over paying 1/100th of the amount makes total sense though.

but it's nice to know you have a heart of gold. 

1 minute ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

well guess what, we already pay for the consequences so you have given up your so-called hard line in the sand. arguing over paying 1/100th of the amount makes total sense though.

but it's nice to know you have a heart of gold. 

What I do with my personal life is what makes me, which is none of your business or the governments’.    I fulfill that social responsibility with my own actions; I don’t fluff up my sense of humanism with how generous I want my government to be with other people’s money.

Federally enforcing your subjectively golden heart is no different from a government making sure everyone is Christian or Muslim.  

There are consequences to actions and it’s not the government’s job to remove consequences.

Like I said, I’m all for legalizing this and saving 99%, although it obviously wouldn’t be that much.

 

 

if you are on here spewing your moral lectures on government spending, than you put yourself out there to be critiqued.  you're made your opinion very clear, you only care about the money. 

 

like i said, you're a peach. 

3 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

if you are on here spewing your moral lectures on government spending, than you put yourself out there to be critiqued.  you're made your opinion very clear, you only care about the money. 

 

like i said, you're a peach. 

Well he fully embraces the ME part of being an American.

So I guess that he also supports defunding the police as well. I mean why should we pay hard earned tax dollars for people to go after those that want to break the law. I dont break the law so I shouldnt have to pay for them.

22 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Well he fully embraces the ME part of being an American.

So I guess that he also supports defunding the police as well. I mean why should we pay hard earned tax dollars for people to go after those that want to break the law. I dont break the law so I shouldnt have to pay for them.

While I think it’s absurd, I’m open to arguments to defund the police.  

27 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

if you are on here spewing your moral lectures on government spending, than you put yourself out there to be critiqued.  you're made your opinion very clear, you only care about the money. 

 

like i said, you're a peach. 

Nothing about government spending should be a moral lecture.

20 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Well he fully embraces the ME part of being an American.

So I guess that he also supports defunding the police as well. I mean why should we pay hard earned tax dollars for people to go after those that want to break the law. I dont break the law so I shouldnt have to pay for them.

i mean there is a ton of waste out there and i am all for cutting out wasteful government spending.  this "could" be something that helps decrease the spending by law enforcement dramatically, clear up and cut down on court costs and drop the money spent incarcerating countless people by a ton, but hell no, i won't agree to one dollar of my tax money going to help those that may need help.