6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Good point. One of our companies is paying in advance to lock in production slots 3 months from now in SE Asia. It's nuts.

One of our transformer manufacturers is now quoting lead-times of more than 2 years.  Not because the schedule is filled for the next 2 years, but because that's the best commitment that they can get on materials from suppliers.  And they're getting orders at that lead-time because everyone else is in the same boat.

 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

 

Both?  You have a generation of economically crushed young adults. They were told by their parents, government and society that they were doing the right thing.  You don't solve the root problem until eliminate the predatory practices caused by the gov't loan guarantees, but you also still have a huge mess to clean up.

lol lmao

2 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Both?  You have a generation of economically crushed young adults. They were told by their parents, government and society that they were doing the right thing.  You don't solve the root problem until eliminate the predatory practices caused by the gov't loan guarantees, but you also still have a huge mess to clean up.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't remove their responsibility. They took the loans, so they have to pay them back. Just because morons told you to do something doesn't absolve you from the consequences of your bad decision.

One thing we should do is make student debt subject to compromise under bankruptcy law -- it's insane that the government changed the law in 2005 to protect its own loans. If these borrowers can't pay off the loans, declare bankruptcy and let the government take the loss.

14 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Both?  You have a generation of economically crushed young adults. They were told by their parents, government and society that they were doing the right thing.  You don't solve the root problem until eliminate the predatory practices caused by the gov't loan guarantees, but you also still have a huge mess to clean up.

There were plenty who were told the same thing but didn't put themselves on the hook, eschewed college and the loans, and are doing just fine in a trade. The fact is that those who took the loans did so for their benefit, not their parents, not society's, and it's up to them to pay for that benefit whether it was realized or not.

23 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I'm sorry, but this doesn't remove their responsibility. They took the loans, so they have to pay them back. Just because morons told you to do something doesn't absolve you from the consequences of your bad decision.

One thing we should do is make student debt subject to compromise under bankruptcy law -- it's insane that the government changed the law in 2005 to protect its own loans. If these borrowers can't pay off the loans, declare bankruptcy and let the government take the loss.

This is better than just outright forgiving it, but I have a problem with asking those who did not get the benefit of higher education, having to foot the bill for those who did. 

Bill's absolutely right here.

 

1 hour ago, The_Omega said:

From a manufacturing standpoint, the slow inventory build isn't because people are waiting for lower prices, it's because manufacturers can't get the materials to build product any faster.  In fact, for the first time in decades, we have customers wanting to give us orders so that they can build inventory trying to lock in current prices (which are 25% - 50% higher than they were a year ago), but we're having to turn them down because materials are on allocation and we just can't get enough to fulfill their demands. Every single company that I represent could build new capacity and fill it immediately, but it wouldn't matter because they couldn't get the materials to fill the orders.

Lead times for our industry is about 1 year. As a recession looms,  I expect orders will be cancelled.

33 minutes ago, Kz! said:

lol lmao

 

Yeah, F those people!

9 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

This is better than just outright forgiving it, but I have a problem with asking those who did not get the benefit of higher education, having to foot the bill for those who did. 

That's the risk borne by all lenders. Make a bad loan, and the borrower declares and the debt gets impaired. The borrower gets hammered too and is forced to liquidate assets and/or restructure payments. 

30 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

 The fact is that those who took the loans did so for their benefit, not their parents...

 

While true, it's also true that many were literally forced by their parents to do this. It was quite common to hear in my day "You're going to college; you don't have a choice!" And if the kid did push back on grounds of not wanting the debt, the parent would just act as if their future earnings would automatically make the investment pay off.

As for the economy, what goes up must come down. The growth rate was not sustainable, at least not in these conditions. The COVID recovery was always a fragile one. GDP grew 5.7% last year, the largest jump in 40 years immediately following a severely acute recession, but did these right-wingers give "pop pop" credit for that? A downturn/recession is predictable and likely unavoidable at this point. The question is how long/severe it will be. Hopefully, it is short-lived but with just enough power to reign in inflation. Consumers also seem to be their own worst enemies in this situation. Instead of doing some logical belt-tightening by cutting back on non-essentials, they're content to just keep draining their bank accounts while b****hing and moaning and hopelessly clinging to the idea that prices will magically drop with a change in leadership.

Doesn't seem like he's going to do much on student loans

Quote

"I am considering dealing with some debt reduction. I am not considering $50,000 debt reduction,” Biden said at the White House after unveiling new funding for Ukraine. "But I’m in the process of taking a hard look at whether or not there are going – there will be additional debt forgiveness, and I’ll have an answer on that in the next couple of weeks.”

If he were smart, and obviously he is (90% percentile at least), he would just keep extending the deadline through 2024.  Pass it off onto the next guy.  Either it's him, in which case he eats that political land mine in the second term, or it's a Republican and they have to eat it.

3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

If he was smart, and obviously he is (90% percentile at least), he would just keep extending the deadline through 2024.  Pass it off onto the next guy.  Either it's him, in which case he eats that political land mine in the second term, or it's a Republican and they have to eat it.

 

I read something the other day that said that when they initially did this "It was expected that payments would resume the following month" or whatever short timeframe the original suspension was for. That's hilarious. Pretty much like any form of welfare, once you put it out there, it's nearly impossible to take it back. The political and economic fallout would be too massive to bear.

11 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Yeah, F those people!

If I have to explain to you why printing billions of dollars to send to a foreign country during a time when we're experiencing record inflation... well, that would not be surprising in the slightest.  

1 minute ago, Kz! said:

If I have to explain to you why printing billions of dollars to send to a foreign country during a time when we're experiencing record inflation... well, that would not be surprising in the slightest.  

 

Wait until you hear about how we paid for World War II!

4 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I read something the other day that said that when they initially did this "It was expected that payments would resume the following month" or whatever short timeframe the original suspension was for. That's hilarious. Pretty much like any form of welfare, once you put it out there, it's nearly impossible to take it back. The political and economic fallout would be too massive to bear.

It was originally through September, but no way Trump was gonna allow it to end a month before the election, so he extended it.

Like I said, Biden should just extend it, extend it, and extend it again.  Eventually, it'll become a political football that the Republicans grab ahold of and hammer him on (though I doubt it hurts him very much since there are millions that are happy about it), then, if Republicans take over, they'll have no choice but to do something about it, since they boxed themselves in, and they'll only hurt themselves in the process.  

It's the kind of long-game political move that Dems rarely take advantage of (out of fear of looking like they're not taking action), but it would be the smart play.  Honestly, the backhandedness of it is more of a Republican move (instead of fixing something, allows the other side to break it), which is why it would work.

28 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

While true, it's also true that many were literally forced by their parents to do this. It was quite common to hear in my day "You're going to college; you don't have a choice!" And if the kid did push back on grounds of not wanting the debt, the parent would just act as if their future earnings would automatically make the investment pay off.

And how long were they told that it would take the investment to pay off?

10 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Wait until you hear about how we paid for World War II!

ah a history buff?  During world war II there were all kinds of things that are much different today. They had rationing programs, They had war bond drives, Recycling drives collecting stuff like used cooking oil, rubber, aluminum etc.   And people all over the country pitched in to do their part.

Of course Hawaii was bombed to bring us "fully" into the war, and people were  actually scared of an invasion.   A bit different than whats going on in Ukraine from where we were in 1941? 

They should just cancel auto and mortgage loans because people need a place to live and car to drive to work, and make food free since we need it to live.  I wonder if there's a system that's ever tried something like that.  Seems like it would be a huge success.

9 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

And how long were they told that it would take the investment to pay off?

 

They probably didn't say and the kid likely didn't ask, but I think a lot of these kids were just told to "study what they love" by their parents and counselors without really considering the value of the degree and the affordability of the school. The utility of student loans was largely left unquestioned. Not everyone, of course, but a lot parents just had this starry-eyed approach to their kids being college graduates with this outdated 1960s sensibility that any kind of degree would pay off in the long run.

8 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

ah a history buff?  During world war II there were all kinds of things that are much different today. They had rationing programs, They had war bond drives, Recycling drives collecting stuff like used cooking oil, rubber, aluminum etc.   And people all over the country pitched in to do their part.

Of course Hawaii was bombed to bring us "fully" into the war, and people were  actually scared of an invasion.   A bit different than whats going on in Ukraine from where we were in 1941? 

 

They even had price controls. Of course, it's very different and hopefully it never gets to that point, but we should be very concerned that this incident will grow into a larger regional conflict that ultimately becomes a world war. Then where are we left? We need to try to stop it now. One thing that we should take from WWII is that appeasement is not the route to success here. 

And what's $33 billion when you're talking about military aid? It's barely a drop in the bucket, especially when you look at it against our national debt already being $30 Trillion. I don't think that $33 Billion to Ukraine is going to break us economically.

7 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

They probably didn't say and the kid likely didn't ask, but I think a lot of these kids were just told to "study what they love" by their parents and counselors without really considering the value of the degree and the affordability of the school. The utility of student loans was largely left unquestioned. Not everyone, of course, but a lot parents just had this starry-eyed approach to their kids being college graduates with this outdated 1960s sensibility that any kind of degree would pay off in the long run.

Assuming this is entirely true, how is that an argument for everyone else to be responsible for their loans?

5 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

They even had price controls. Of course, it's very different and hopefully it never gets to that point, but we should be very concerned that this incident will grow into a larger regional conflict that ultimately becomes a world war. Then where are we left? We need to try to stop it now. One thing that we should take from WWII is that appeasement is not the route to success here. 

And what's $33 billion when you're talking about military aid? It's barely a drop in the bucket, especially when you look at it against our national debt already being $30 Trillion. I don't think that $33 Billion to Ukraine is going to break us economically.

How is Russia going to turn this invasion that they're struggling mightily with into a larger conflict?  Where are they going to get the resources to expand their operation?