March 11, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Pretty sure the U.S. already tried this approach under the Articles of Confederation I would love to hear someone make the argument to go back to state currency and individual state trade deals with foreign governments It would be even better coming from a hard core republican from a state like North Dakota or Arkansas.
March 11, 20214 yr 10 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Anyone who uses a clip from The West Wing or The Simpsons gets a like. It's in the Geneva Convention. Well crap might be time to rewatch the first 4 seasons of The West Wing again. Pretty much on a once-per-presidential-term schedule. Seems appropriate.
March 11, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Gannan said: Yeah its become a retirement program. People want to retire whether they've actually saved for retirement or not. Most people with good careers would do better putting the money taken out for SS in their own 401ks, but its amazing how many people don't have a career or a 401K. I remember being shocked that nearly half of adults don't pay income tax. SS isn't going anywhere. I remember when Bush even floated the idea of privatizing it and his own base freaked out over the idea. It's wildly popular. Norse lives in his own reality. He'd do well in the flat earth thread. The reality I live is the one that most live in outside this angry little forum. It's nice here, you should try it.
March 11, 20214 yr Just now, DEagle7 said: Well crap might be time to rewatch the first 4 seasons of The West Wing again. Pretty much on a once-per-presidential-term schedule. Seems appropriate. I somehow missed that show when it first came out. I am watching it now on HBO Max and loving it.
March 11, 20214 yr 13 minutes ago, NVeagle said: Yea, it's not accurate. What are they selling? They are collecting. "Revenue" of the government is collecting taxes from citizens, businesses, visitors etc. It's our money not the government's. what in the hell are you talking about? revenue is income. period. when you pay your taxes, it stops being "your" money and becomes the government's. we, as citizens and voters, have a say in how it's spent, but it's not "our" money anymore. so yes, they're taxing you, and when you pay your taxes that's revenue to the government. and the government dollars cease being "yours" and become the government's.
March 11, 20214 yr Just now, The Norseman said: The reality I live is the one that most live in outside this angry little forum. It's nice here, you should try it. Outside this forum you might be able to escape from facts and pretend Trump didn't increase discretionary spending. Do you like to pretend he's still president too?
March 11, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Gannan said: Yeah its become a retirement program. People want to retire whether they've actually saved for retirement or not. Most people with good careers would do better putting the money taken out for SS in their own 401ks, but its amazing how many people don't have a career or a 401K. I remember being shocked that nearly half of adults don't pay income tax. SS isn't going anywhere. I remember when Bush even floated the idea of privatizing it and his own base freaked out over the idea. It's wildly popular. Norse lives in his own reality. He'd do well in the flat earth thread. Since my utopia of just ending it won't happen, the best we can hope for it to reform it in order to address its solvency issues. I've posted similar things before, but here are some thoughts: 1. Raise the retirement age significantly: When the program was enacted, the average life span was ~63. Now it is almost 79. We need to raise the retirement age to 70 right away, and migrate it towards 75. 2. Means test benefits: I hate this in principle. I never get squat from the government (stimulus checks, tax credits, etc.). But in the world of the possible, this is what you trade to get the increase in the retirement age. 3. Allow Opt-Outs at a Certain Age: If you want to stop paying at 40 or 45 and forego any benefits, you should be allowed to.
March 11, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I understand it perfectly. Net interest is the net result of interest received vs. interest paid. If you don't want to call interest received "revenue" then fine...but last I checked, that's what banks call it. It still doesn't change the fact that we weren't talking about the interest we recieve, we are talking about the interest we pay. Net interest isn't relevant. I don't even understand what you think you're arguing anymore.
March 11, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I understand it perfectly. Net interest is the net result of interest received vs. interest paid. If you don't want to call interest received "revenue" then fine...but last I checked, that's what banks call it. It still doesn't change the fact that we weren't talking about the interest we recieve, we are talking about the interest we pay. Net interest isn't relevant. Yeah, you don't. This is why I also posted the gross interest paid, and showed that has dropped as a % of spending. You are either trolling or helplessly ignorant. Or both. Either way, enjoy looking like a fool.
March 11, 20214 yr Just now, Gannan said: I somehow missed that show when it first came out. I am watching it now on HBO Max and loving it. One of my all-time favorite shows. Jealous you get to experience it all from scratch.
March 11, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: Since my utopia of just ending it won't happen, the best we can hope for it to reform it in order to address its solvency issues. I've posted similar things before, but here are some thoughts: 1. Raise the retirement age significantly: When the program was enacted, the average life span was ~63. Now it is almost 79. We need to raise the retirement age to 70 right away, and migrate it towards 75. 2. Means test benefits: I hate this in principle. I never get squat from the government (stimulus checks, tax credits, etc.). But in the world of the possible, this is what you trade to get the increase in the retirement age. 3. Allow Opt-Outs at a Certain Age: If you want to stop paying at 40 or 45 and forego any benefits, you should be allowed to. Doesn't 3 counteract the what you're addressing in 1 and 2?
March 11, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Well crap might be time to rewatch the first 4 seasons of The West Wing again. Pretty much on a once-per-presidential-term schedule. Seems appropriate. The first 4 seasons of The West Wing, before Sorkin left, is some of the best TV of all time. Season 7 with the Santos/Vinnick campaign was well done as well.
March 11, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: Doesn't 3 counteract the what you're addressing in 1 and 2? To a degree, and we'd have to see the math. Maybe raise the opt-out age to 50. Since social security taxes stop at some point, wealthy people opting out wouldn't have the same impact as opting out of income taxes. So I've basically paid the max every year for 20 years. If I opt-out now, you get no more taxes from me but also owe me nothing in retirement. So less revenue but less future obligation, and the obligation reduction is more pronounced since people likely to opt out will be wealthy and therefore likely to live longer. There has to be a way to model this out where there is an opt-out age that makes sense. 1 minute ago, Alpha_TATEr said: i have never watched the west wing. Do yourself a favor and watch it. Utterly fantastic television.
March 11, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: The first 4 seasons of The West Wing, before Sorkin left, is some of the best TV of all time. Season 7 with the Santos/Vinnick campaign was well done as well. Agreed 100%. I was really happy they were able to give it a satisfying ending with season 7 after things got a bit off the rails in 5/6. I didn't hate them but on rewatch I usually tap out after season 4. Same with The Wire. 2 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: i have never watched the west wing. You should give it a shot. It's a bit dated now but give it a few episodes.
March 11, 20214 yr Just now, DEagle7 said: Agreed 100%. I was really happy they were able to give it a satisfying ending with season 7 after things got a bit off the rails in 5/6. I didn't hate them but on rewatch I usually tap out after season 4. Same with The Wire. You should give it a shot. It's a bit dated now but give it a few episodes. I re-watched the whole series on Netflix a couple years ago. Season 6 was better than Season 5, but I look at it like people who complain about the Simpsons since season 8. It appears worse than it is because you are comparing it to what came before. Compared to other things on TV, it's still vastly superior. But the introduction of Santos/Vinnick really got the show its edge back. The Season 2 finale is an almost perfect episode of television.
March 11, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The first 4 seasons of The West Wing, before Sorkin left, is some of the best TV of all time. Season 7 with the Santos/Vinnick campaign was well done as well. I didn't even know who Sorkin was until I saw this. If anyone has never watched this scene, you should... After that I've tried to watch everything he's done.
March 11, 20214 yr Author 25 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Do yourself a favor and watch it. Utterly fantastic television. I've never really watched the series, either, but it sounds like I really should since I have HBO now. My favorite history teacher used to play clips in class, though. Also, I've read that my man Lawrence O'Donnell was a producer and writer for the show, and I always thought that was interesting since the he also worked in the Senate.
March 11, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I re-watched the whole series on Netflix a couple years ago. Season 6 was better than Season 5, but I look at it like people who complain about the Simpsons since season 8. It appears worse than it is because you are comparing it to what came before. Compared to other things on TV, it's still vastly superior. But the introduction of Santos/Vinnick really got the show its edge back. The Season 2 finale is an almost perfect episode of television. That church scene with Sheen switching back and forth from latin...chills every time.
March 11, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: what in the hell are you talking about? revenue is income. period. Revenue is NOT Income. You should know the difference.
March 11, 20214 yr 10 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Agreed 100%. I was really happy they were able to give it a satisfying ending with season 7 after things got a bit off the rails in 5/6. I didn't hate them but on rewatch I usually tap out after season 4. Same with The Wire. You should give it a shot. It's a bit dated now but give it a few episodes. on my list.
March 11, 20214 yr 6 minutes ago, Gannan said: I didn't even know who Sorkin was until I saw this. If anyone has never watched this scene, you should... After that I've tried to watch everything he's done. What's amazing is most West Wing fans hated the Newsroom, but I enjoyed it. Hell, I even like Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip.
March 11, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: That church scene with Sheen switching back and forth from latin...chills every time. OK -- gonna have to re-watch that episode this weekend.
March 11, 20214 yr Just now, vikas83 said: What's amazing is most West Wing fans hated the Newsroom, but I enjoyed it. Hell, I even like Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. Loved them all. But WW is special. I binged it when I was younger and I remember feeling like a whole new world had opened up. Then on the other side of the perspective, I thought Veep was hilarious look at similar ideas.
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