General Manager Replacement

[time2rock]

On 12/1/2020 at 3:57 PM, FlankingRight said:

Aside from Roseman’s path, what is usually the path to GM? Is it from many different background or is it on average one specific path to GM? 

I honestly think the best GMs are those that came up through the scouting ranks.  They serve as a scout and learn how to identify talent, then work their way up to a Director of College Scouting position and possibly eventually a Director of Player Personnel position.  

[Road to Victory]

10 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Veach found Mahomes.  Dorsey left KC in 2016.  Mahomes was drafted in 2017.  

Dorsey was fired in June 2017 after the draft. Here’s an excerpt from the article.

Despite bizarre nature of Dorsey firing, Chiefs’ GM job seen as ideal across NFL

 

By Terez A. Paylor

tpaylor@kcstar.com

 

JUNE 24, 2017 07:18 PM, 

UPDATED JUNE 24, 2017 07:14 PM

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  Read more here: https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article158092674.html#storylink=cpy

[Road to Victory]

20 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I honestly think the best GMs are those that came up through the scouting ranks.  The serve as a scout and learn how to identify talent, then work their way up to a Director of College Scouting position and possibly eventually a Director of Player Personnel position.  

I agree. You look at lawyers like Howie and Mike Tannenbaum who can’t draft at all. 

[FlankingRight]

Looks like the continuously successful franchises all hired from within as GM. Who in the heck do we have? This is extremely concerning. No successful organization will let smart ones just leave. They will be promoted before that happens. 

[time2rock]

14 minutes ago, FlankingRight said:

Looks like the continuously successful franchises all hired from within as GM. Who in the heck do we have? This is extremely concerning. No successful organization will let smart ones just leave. They will be promoted before that happens. 

IMO the whole scouting department need to get blown up in the process.  Hire a legit GM and let him begin the process of building a new scouting department as well as hiring a new HC (who in turn will be responsible for hiring his own coordinators and filling out the rest of his staff).  

All I know is, whenever we do decide to blow it all up and start over, I really want to return to a traditional FO structure where we have a GM with a strong scouting background and a real eye for talent and a HC that focuses only on being a HC who hires coordinators for both offense and defense and allows them full control over their respective units.  

[FlankingRight]

14 minutes ago, time2rock said:

IMO the whole scouting department need to get blown up in the process.  Hire a legit GM and let him begin the process of building a new scouting department as well as hiring a new HC (who in turn will be responsible for hiring his own coordinators and filling out the rest of his staff).  

All I know is, whenever we do decide to blow it all up and start over, I really want to return to a traditional FO structure where we have a GM with a strong scouting background and a real eye for talent and a HC that focuses only on being a HC who hires coordinators for both offense and defense and allows them full control over their respective units.  

Crazy to think we’d be looking for a new GM a few years after a Super Bowl. Looking back it was truly lightning in a bottle. 
 

 

[ToastJenkins]

36 minutes ago, FlankingRight said:

Looks like the continuously successful franchises all hired from within as GM. Who in the heck do we have? This is extremely concerning. No successful organization will let smart ones just leave. They will be promoted before that happens. 

Weidl

[NOTW]

22 minutes ago, time2rock said:

IMO the whole scouting department need to get blown up in the process.  Hire a legit GM and let him begin the process of building a new scouting department as well as hiring a new HC (who in turn will be responsible for hiring his own coordinators and filling out the rest of his staff).  

All I know is, whenever we do decide to blow it all up and start over, I really want to return to a traditional FO structure where we have a GM with a strong scouting background and a real eye for talent and a HC that focuses only on being a HC who hires coordinators for both offense and defense and allows them full control over their respective units.  

100%!  

They need to hand the keys to the entire football operation to a solid GM.  I don't know enough about who gets GM jobs but if it's like Head Coach jobs then you get someone like an Asst GM who has worked under someone, a Director of Personnel or Scouting.  As you said, someone who knows the business.  Perhaps a former GM.

That person needs to set the philosophy for the entire football team.  No changing major schemes, for example defense from 4-3 to 3-4 and wide 9 back to 4-3.  Pick a core philosophy of what type of team you're going to be.  There is definitely innovation and adapting to the changing times with that, but your core philosophies are there.  Then EVERY hire on staff and every player is evaluated against those philosophies.  No reaches in the draft, no bad trades or contracts.  Does this guy fit what we do?

Then if you do fire a coach, you are hiring another coach with the same philosophy and the same schemes (within reason) so it's much easier to take the roster and coach them up.  You don't have to rebuild the roster in 2-3 years for the new coach because you already have the roster pieces for the same type of system.  Same with a player, replacing a player is easy.  You shouldn't have a coach who can't "figure out" how to utilize a player the GM drafts or acquires.  The GM knows exactly what the team needs.  Every team has misses in the draft, and not every free agent or trade works out but overall you have a consistent philosophy.

[time2rock]

15 minutes ago, FlankingRight said:

Crazy to think we’d be looking for a new GM a few years after a Super Bowl. Looking back it was truly lightning in a bottle. 
 

 

No doubt.  He wasn’t thought highly of before the Chip Kelly fiasco mainly due to his incredibly poor drafting (many here wanted him gone before Kelly came aboard and wrestled personnel control from him).  Then when Kelly was fired most of us wanted a new GM and weren’t very thrilled when Howie regained that responsibility.  Somehow he worked some magic to move that God awful Byron Maxwell contract in the process of maneuvering our way up to pick 2 overall (that landed Wentz) - it really was some brilliant work to do so (regardless of whether the pick worked out or not - still hard to tell IMO).  And then it seemed as though every move he made in free agency that offseason leading up to the 2017 season worked quite well (Robinson, Blount, Long, etc) - all of those moves actually made sense.  His moves since then have for the most part been terrible.  The FA signings seem to be willy nilly moves just randomly adding talent regardless of perceived fit with no real vision for building a team to compete now and in the future.  And his drafting continues to suck.  He ... needs ... to ... go ... Super Bowl championship or not.  And think Doug now fits that same description.  

[B3]

57 minutes ago, time2rock said:

IMO the whole scouting department need to get blown up in the process.  Hire a legit GM and let him begin the process of building a new scouting department as well as hiring a new HC (who in turn will be responsible for hiring his own coordinators and filling out the rest of his staff).  

All I know is, whenever we do decide to blow it all up and start over, I really want to return to a traditional FO structure where we have a GM with a strong scouting background and a real eye for talent and a HC that focuses only on being a HC who hires coordinators for both offense and defense and allows them full control over their respective units.  

Yes!

 

(Don’t forget the emotional intelligence though).

[time2rock]

6 minutes ago, B3 said:

Yes!

 

(Don’t forget the emotional intelligence though).

Lurie was so focused on finding a HC with "emotional intelligence” after having his feathers so completely ruffled by Kelly that he failed to consider other important characteristics of a HC (kinda like how Howie was so focused on speed in this past draft he failed to take into consideration how good a football player some of the prospects were ... like Justin Jefferson ).  We need to find a good leader of men (like a Mike Tomlin) and who will hire a strong supporting cast and not someone who excels in X’s and O’s (he’ll let the coordinators have pretty much full control over their respective units).  

[Infam]

I think emotional intelligence is underrated. So this year is a trainwreck, but I would chalk it up to a shaky OL that made the QB insecure. 

Apart from this year, the last seasons I have been so damn proud of this team. They have been in bad situations, not all by own fault, and have battled themselves through it. It's not a thing you see around the league much. It's been admirable efford. And yeah, I credit DP for that.

Now there can be no excuse for some really boneheaded calls this year. I am not saying all is fine, he needs to not only say he will do better, but do better.

But you cannot say the team playing for him has not been a big boon for us and will be moving forward.

[time2rock]

37 minutes ago, Infam said:

I think emotional intelligence is underrated. So this year is a trainwreck, but I would chalk it up to a shaky OL that made the QB insecure. 

Apart from this year, the last seasons I have been so damn proud of this team. They have been in bad situations, not all by own fault, and have battled themselves through it. It's not a thing you see around the league much. It's been admirable efford. And yeah, I credit DP for that.

Now there can be no excuse for some really boneheaded calls this year. I am not saying all is fine, he needs to not only say he will do better, but do better.

But you cannot say the team playing for him has not been a big boon for us and will be moving forward.

No doubt Doug should get credit for his team continuing to play hard the past two seasons considering the injuries.  But overall the offense has stunk since 2017 (even taking into consideration the injuries) ... and that is on Doug.  

[Traveler Vic]

4 hours ago, MidMoFo said:

I posted this in another thread, but it belongs here:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/next-potential-nfl-general-managers-gms-2021-2022
 

These would be the top of my list:

Mike Borgonzi (Director of Football Operations, Kansas City Chiefs): The former Brown Fullback who worked briefly in the financial sector before coming to the NFL, Borgonzi brings his Ivy League-educated aptitude to evaluation and team building. He’s known for his attention to detail, keen eye as an evaluator, collaborative approach, and his unparalleled work ethic. Now in his 11th year, he is extremely well versed in every aspect of football operations as Brett Veach’s right-hand man. He started as the college scouting administrator, then managed football operations, then was a pro personnel scout, Assistant Director of Pro Scouting, Director of Player Personnel, and then Director of Football Operations. He’s worked with and learned from Scott Pioli, John Dorsey, Andy Reid, Chris Ballard, and Brett Veach in the construction of the Chiefs’ Super Bowl LIV winning roster.
 

Chris Shea (Football Operations Counsel/Personnel Executive-Kansas City Chiefs): Shea may be the most diverse candidate in this cycle with a skill set that rivals very few in the NFL. He is an attorney who also has extensive expertise in salary cap management, evaluating both pro/college prospects, coaching, analytics, and NFL labor law.  After earning his Juris Doctor and a license to practice law, he was hired to work in the NFL league office. He then returned to the NFL with the Miami Dolphins in the role of Player Personnel Coordinator and Administration. He was later promoted to Assistant Director of Pro Scouting. He then became the Director of Scouting Administration/Strategic Management with the Philadelphia Eagles. He is currently with the Chiefs, where he has contributed to scouting, salary cap, legal counsel, football operations, and player personnel—working in nearly every capacity of football operations. He has worked with Bill Parcells, Dick Haley, Dan Henning, Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, and currently works closely with Brett Veach. 
 

 

Andy has a history of protecting his support staff. I would not count too much on anyone from Kansas City.

[315Eagles]

8 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Someone from Chiefs, Steelers, or Ravens

They know how to draft

Seems like the Saints do as well.

[Road to Victory]

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

100%!  

They need to hand the keys to the entire football operation to a solid GM.  I don't know enough about who gets GM jobs but if it's like Head Coach jobs then you get someone like an Asst GM who has worked under someone, a Director of Personnel or Scouting.  As you said, someone who knows the business.  Perhaps a former GM.

That person needs to set the philosophy for the entire football team.  No changing major schemes, for example defense from 4-3 to 3-4 and wide 9 back to 4-3.  Pick a core philosophy of what type of team you're going to be.  There is definitely innovation and adapting to the changing times with that, but your core philosophies are there.  Then EVERY hire on staff and every player is evaluated against those philosophies.  No reaches in the draft, no bad trades or contracts.  Does this guy fit what we do?

Then if you do fire a coach, you are hiring another coach with the same philosophy and the same schemes (within reason) so it's much easier to take the roster and coach them up.  You don't have to rebuild the roster in 2-3 years for the new coach because you already have the roster pieces for the same type of system.  Same with a player, replacing a player is easy.  You shouldn't have a coach who can't "figure out" how to utilize a player the GM drafts or acquires.  The GM knows exactly what the team needs.  Every team has misses in the draft, and not every free agent or trade works out but overall you have a consistent philosophy.

Totally agree. The current structure of the organization makes any personnel job with the Eagles very undesirable. Everyone reports to Howie which is a problem for those seeking a real promotion. Joe Douglas, Heckert, etc all left for more control. They need to hire a traditional GM and let him make all of the football decisions. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 hours ago, jsdarkstar said:

DJ like Mayock understands College Talent and knows how to evaluate them better then most others out there. I'd be fine if he was given the GM. To me the GM's job is to draft players and obtain free agents. 

I know he was a scout in the NFL so of course he knows his stuff. And I do really listen to and value his views in the lead up to each draft. But how much of that is DJ and how much of that is researchers?

[weko]

10 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Someone from Chiefs, Steelers, or Ravens

They know how to draft

I'd always look at the Steelers first.  They are the kings of the modern draft

[weko]

2 hours ago, Road to Victory said:

Totally agree. The current structure of the organization makes any personnel job with the Eagles very undesirable. Everyone reports to Howie which is a problem for those seeking a real promotion. Joe Douglas, Heckert, etc all left for more control. They need to hire a traditional GM and let him make all of the football decisions. 

Yes the power structure here can't be viewed favorably league wide.  Doug couldn't pick his own coaches.  Granted they were horrible and had to go.  For some reason he couldn't see that.  He has little say on the final 53 and maybe not much on the active roster on game day.  He's being told who to play by Howie and just recently we're being lead to believe Lurie.  Howie must go if we are going to attract someone good.  Jeff has to see that.

[PoconoDon]

Here are a few for the interview list:

1. Ed Dodds - Assistant GM - Colts   - My 1st choice.

2. Phil Kreidler - College scouting Coordinator - Steelers.

3. Joe Hortiz - Director of Player Personnel - Ravens.

4. Ethan Waugh - Director College Scouting and Football Systems - 49ers.

5. Mike Borgonzi, Chris Shea, Mike Bradway, & Ryan Poles - all Chiefs personnel execs.

6. Louis Riddick - Analyst.

7. Daniel Jeremiah - Analyst.

[NYEagle]

14 hours ago, manz2821 said:

Dawk???  Look at what Lynch a lot of really high draft picks did for the niners 🙂

Fixed

[Mike030270]

12 hours ago, FlankingRight said:

Crazy to think we’d be looking for a new GM a few years after a Super Bowl. Looking back it was truly lightning in a bottle. 
 

 

They're loyalty to players that won the SB hurt them in the future. Also the replacement position coaches have sucked(QB coach & OC)

[Usain23]

My question is how attractive is this job to a prospective GM candidate? What about this team would attract one of the hot names for a GM job?

Our QB situation is a disaster.

We have an old, expensive roster with very few young stars if any. 

We are in cap hell for the next 2+ years. 

All told, this may be one of the least desirable GM openings out there this offseason if it does indeed become available. 

[Road to Victory]

5 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

Here are a few for the interview list:

1. Ed Dodds - Assistant GM - Colts   - My 1st choice.

2. Phil Kreidler - College scouting Coordinator - Steelers.

3. Joe Hortiz - Director of Player Personnel - Ravens.

4. Ethan Waugh - Director College Scouting and Football Systems - 49ers.

5. Mike Borgonzi, Chris Shea, Mike Bradway, & Ryan Poles - all Chiefs personnel execs.

6. Louis Riddick - Analyst.

7. Daniel Jeremiah - Analyst.

Like the Dodds choice. I started a topic on him a while ago in "I want the Eagles to get”. He also did a nice job in Seattle. 

[EagleVA]

18 hours ago, Br3 said:

Louis riddick.
 

The only thing that scares me about him was how wrong he was about Trubisky. 

 

18 hours ago, FlankingRight said:

Louis Riddick also predicted Wentz as a 2019 League MVP

I don't think Riddick is the man, he all too often caters to "popular opinion", the Trubisky over Watson is a perfect example.