5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Hurtscuse #2

How many QBs in NFL history started their second year with a rookie HC and were successful that year? I sure can't think of any.

Just downplaying the fact that NFL players, especially QBs, need consistency to be successful.

Just now, Shalodeep said:

Mahomes had how many?

Lamar?

 

You don't even know what you're arguing anymore. You're going on about two different things to avoid your failed argument(s).  Do you want to argue that Hurts has had enough experience, and should be ahead of where he's at? Or are you trying to say he should've done more compared to other QB's?  Make up your mind

Put Mahomes with the Jets, and Lamar with the Giants and tell me how well they'd have done in their first season as starters/rookies.

 

8 minutes ago, MF POON said:

He played a whopping 4 games, scratch that, 3 1/2 games as a rookie, and wasn't the official starter.  But fine, add those 3 1/2 games on a terrible 2020 team if you want

Mahomes started 1 game as a rookie.

He then threw for 5000 yards, 50 TD's 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Mahomes started 1 game as a rookie.

He then threw for 5000 yards, 50 TD's and won the Super Bowl.

Yeah, and look at the coaching/talented players he had around him.  That's not taking away anything from Mahomes, but I already described how players luck into great scenarios.  Mahomes isn't having that same success with the Jets, Giants, etc. 

4 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

How many QBs in NFL history started their second year with a rookie HC and were successful that year? I sure can't think of any.

Just downplaying the fact that NFL players, especially QBs, need consistency to be successful

Cam Newton was offensive rookie of the year with a rookie head coach.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Cam Newton was offensive rookie of the year with a rookie head coach.

Cam Newton started his career with Ron Rivera.

He did not start with one established coach and then get a rookie coach his second year. 

5 minutes ago, MF POON said:

You don't even know what you're arguing anymore. You're going on about two different things to avoid your failed argument(s).  Do you want to argue that Hurts has had enough experience, and should be ahead of where he's at? Or are you trying to say he should've done more compared to other QB's?  Make up your mind

Put Mahomes with the Jets, and Lamar with the Giants and tell me how well they'd have done in their first season as starters/rookies.

 

My argument didn't fail by any stretch, you just struggle to see any narrative that doesn't land you in hurt's lap.  Mahomes, Jackson didn't inherit all the talent in the world including the top oline and still set the world on fire. Hurts isn't that dude. 

2 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Cam Newton started his career with Ron Rivera.

He did not start with one established coach and then get a rookie coach his second year. 

Justin Herbert.  Anthony Lynn was his coach as a rookie, then he got rookie head coach Bradon Staley his second year.

He had a new offensive coordinator year 2.

12 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Yeah, and look at the coaching/talented players he had around him.  That's not taking away anything from Mahomes, but I already described how players luck into great scenarios.  Mahomes isn't having that same success with the Jets, Giants, etc. 

You say that but look at what Burrow did for Cincinnati....great QBs change a franchise around

7 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Cam Newton started his career with Ron Rivera.

He did not start with one established coach and then get a rookie coach his second year. 

What about Baker Mayfield.

New head coach and offensive coordinator each of his first 3 years, and all he did in year 3 was go 11-5 and win a playoff game.

2 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

My argument didn't fail by any stretch, you just struggle to see any narrative that doesn't land you in hurt's lap.  Mahomes, Jackson didn't inherit all the talent in the world including the top oline and still set the world on fire. Hurts isn't that dude. 

Mahomes came onto a consistent playoff team with an established coach in Reid, a TE many consider the best in the game, Tyreek Hill, etc. Yeah, it's a real shocker he had such success, lol.   Jackson had an established SB winning Coach with a solid team already established.  

But hey, I guess Trevor Lawrence should've lit the league up last year too? Wasn't he the most NFL ready QB in the draft?? Why didn't he light it up?

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

What about Baker Mayfield.

New head coach and offensive coordinator each of his first 3 years, and all he did in year 3 was go 11-5 and win a playoff game.

You're hilarious man 😅 

Hurts is good but do we really want to give a rb a big contract? If it's the rb average around 5-6 mill I'd be OK with that. Just don't think a RB is worth more in today's NFL. 

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

You're hilarious man 😅 

Well year 3 for Baker should count the same as year 2, for Hurts, seeing as it was a new coaching staff for the 3rd year in a row.

But I purposely did that, so you can see what the year 3 expectations are for Hurts.  11-6 and win a playoff game.  Should be easy, he has talent around him, the same system two years in a row, and obviously is the superior QB to Baker Mayfield ( unless he isn't of course )

5 minutes ago, MF POON said:

You're hilarious man 😅 

 

I know  you are not going to touch this one

 

12 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Justin Herbert.  Anthony Lynn was his coach as a rookie, then he got rookie head coach Bradon Staley his second year.

He had a new offensive coordinator year 2.

 

10 minutes ago, downundermike said:

What about Baker Mayfield.

New head coach and offensive coordinator each of his first 3 years, and all he did in year 3 was go 11-5 and win a playoff game.

Baker had Freddie Kitchens in year one and year two. His interceptions in year two were through the roof. He did get a bit better in year three with a whole new staff though.

The one that you were spot on with was Justin Herbert. Other than that, I have been looking and can not find many others.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Well year 3 for Baker should count the same as year 2, for Hurts, seeing as it was a new coaching staff for the 3rd year in a row.

But I purposely did that, so you can see what the year 3 expectations are for Hurts.  11-6 and win a playoff game.  Should be easy, he has talent around him, the same system two years in a row, and obviously is the superior QB to Baker Mayfield ( unless he isn't of course )

You're seriously making your argument with Baker Mayfield? You're conveniently leaving out the fact that Baker regressed twice after having a solid year statistically. 

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

Mahomes came onto a consistent playoff team with an established coach in Reid, a TE many consider the best in the game, Tyreek Hill, etc. Yeah, it's a real shocker he had such success, lol.   Jackson had an established SB winning Coach with a solid team already established.  

But hey, I guess Trevor Lawrence should've lit the league up last year too? Wasn't he the most NFL ready QB in the draft?? Why didn't he light it up?

You're hilarious man 😅

Yes, almost any QB could throw for 50tds and 5k yards with that collection of talent. How silly of me. Pretty sure Hill was widely accepted as a top receiver at that point and Kelce didn't have his career year the moment Mahomes took over.  I wonder why Alex Smith couldn't do it! 

Jackson only came back and won MVP and threw the most passing touchdowns that year with a 66% completion percentage. Must of been all that talent around him that got him there and not those wild traits he has....

And Lawrence had a coach that didn't make it through year one.... But I forgot who I'm talking to. The architect of the empty argument himself the Mfing POON

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

You're seriously making your argument with Baker Mayfield? You're conveniently leaving out the fact that Baker regressed twice after having a solid year statistically. 

Please tell me his best statistical season, and then show me the regression.

It will be interesting to see Trevor Lawrence in year two with an experienced head coach. He probably wont make the jump till year three, but he should be better this year.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

I know  you are not going to touch this one

 

 

Yes, what Herbert is doing is impressive, but he hasn't made the playoffs yet.  but kudos, you found one QB that's tearing it up statistically while not having much team success.

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

Yes, what Herbert is doing is impressive, but he hasn't made the playoffs yet.  but kudos, you found one QB that's tearing it up statistically while not having much team success.

Had the same record as Hurts, with phenomenally better stats.

Here is another one - Jared Goff. Was drafted by Fisher and unlocked by McVay as a rookie head coach.

38 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

How many QBs in NFL history started their second year with a rookie HC and were successful that year? I sure can't think of any.

How about we try this one on for size.

Super Bowl champion and Eagles legend Big D!ck Nick Foles.

 

3 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Yes, almost any QB could throw for 50tds and 5k yards with that collection of talent. How silly of me. Pretty sure Hill was widely accepted as a top receiver at that point and Kelce didn't have his career year the moment Mahomes took over.  I wonder why Alex Smith couldn't do it! 

Jackson only came back and won MVP and threw the most passing touchdowns that year with a 66% completion percentage. Must of been all that talent around him that got him there and not those wild traits he has....

And Lawrence had a coach that didn't make it through year one.... But I forgot who I'm talking to. The architect of the empty argument himself the Mfing POON

Put Mahomes with the Giants and ask yourself if he throws for 50 TDs with over 5k in yards.  Yes, the talent and coaching surrounding him allowed him to reach that level. He's a very good QB regardless, but he's since come back down to earth and you're not giving those surrounding players any credit. Alex Smith is not Mahomes, simple as that. Smith is a game manager.

Yeah, Lawrence was in a bad situation, similar to how Hurts was in a bad situation when he came to the Eagles. Doug got canned after the season and the team was awful that year.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Please tell me his best statistical season, and then show me the regression.

He regressed from his 2018 season and had 21 INTs in 2019. He had his best year in 2020 and then regressed in 2021. 

39 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

How many QBs in NFL history started their second year with a rookie HC and were successful that year? I sure can't think of any.

Jared Goff