Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[TorontoEagle]

1 minute ago, EagleVA said:

Here's the problem, many young QB's have issues with reading NFL defenses, funny thing is you seldom hear that about white QB's, for instance, have you ever heard that about Wentz?  I sure as hell never heard it.  All one ever heard about Wentz' intelligence is he had a 4.0 GPA but I think it's fair to say he couldn't read a defense.....and still can't.

Wentz can read a defense. There's video of him pre-draft going thru tape and calling out coverages and where to go. It was part of the reason Howie felt he was the guy to trade up for.

Wentz's issue is he wants to play hero ball too often. Doesn't take what the defense gives and holds onto the ball too long resulting in strip sacks, or trying too hard to force a pass when he shouldn't. He is worlds better at actually reading a defense than Hurts. 

[Shalodeep]

1 minute ago, EagleVA said:

Here's the problem, many young QB's have issues with reading NFL defenses, funny thing is you seldom hear that about white QB's, for instance, have you ever heard that about Wentz?  I sure as hell never heard it.  All one ever heard about Wentz' intelligence is he had a 4.0 GPA but I think it's fair to say he couldn't read a defense.....and still can't.

He has zero and I mean zero pocket presence and awareness. As many sacks as he has taken, he would taken that many more if he wasn't built like a damn linebacker. His football IQ isn't very high and lacks growth due to this arrogance of his that has handicapped him since 17'

 

[Texas Eagle]

1 hour ago, MF POON said:

I never said you or anyone was racist, you're the one labelling yourself that.  I stated that race is relevant to the discussion because there's an obvious bias when it comes to running QB's within the league. 

No, it’s not

[EagleVA]

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Wentz's issue is he wants to play hero ball too often. Doesn't take what the defense gives and holds onto the ball too long resulting in strip sacks, or trying too hard to force a pass when he shouldn't. He is worlds better at actually reading a defense than Hurts. 

Sounds like the inability to read a defense to me

[pallidrone]

9 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Here's what you originally said:

Going into year 3, there were a lot of fans that thought the Eagles made a mistake with McNabb, that he would never win, that Reid had no idea what he was doing as he was only a QB coach

That's unequivocally wrong. There was tons of hope for the team, after we made the playoffs, smacked the Bucs around then lost to the Giants. It was the pickle juice game and onside kick to start the year against Dallas. Again, McNabb almost won MVP, and Reid was largely considered a great coaching hire. 

You are now bringing in things that happened after that year. Culpepper had a great year in 2000 as well, yet he didn't pull in any MVP votes. 

So you're referring to some fringe radio callers, who are put on air because they have such stupid opinions as your proof? 

The Limbaugh BS didn't happen till 2003. 

And Reid was criticized more about his run/pass ratio than "taking the ball out of McNabb's hands". You have completely hyperbolized McNabb's early career. Good for you. 

What hope are you talking about? That entire offseason was spent talking about McNabb and wondering if they were better off with Culpepper because he completely stunk up the joint in that loss to the Giants in the playoffs. That was when he was sacked 6 times, and the only touchdown they had was in the last 2 minutes of the game. That was even after the Giants massacred the Vikings.

I swear so many of you guys forget what happened here. 

[TorontoEagle]

3 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Sounds like the inability to read a defense to me

Wentz's 2017 season was him at his peak. And he was reading defenses beautifully. 

The 2019 season, when he had to carry flaming hot garbage to the playoffs, forced him into his current hero ball persona. To compare Hurts and Wentz is asinine, they have completely different skill sets. 

1 minute ago, pallidrone said:

What hope are you talking about? That entire offseason was spent talking about McNabb and wondering if they were better off with Culpepper because he completely stunk up the joint in that loss to the Giants in the playoffs. That was when he was sacked 6 times, and the only touchdown they had was in the last 2 minutes of the game. 

I swear so many of you guys forget what happened here. 

Yes, so many people wanted to get of our potential MVP QB and potential (and soon to be) Coach of the Year. 

McNabb was obviously compared to Culpepper because they came out in the same draft, had a similar play style, and had similar starts to their careers. 

Culpepper had Randy Moss and Cris Carter, McNabb had....Torrence Small? 

[Shalodeep]

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Just tell us you hate McNabb without flat out saying it.  

You might have been one of those A Holes crucifying him, but the fan base as a whole supported THE F out of him. There was no way the radio airwaves were killing the guy, especially early in his career.  And the Reid needing to run the ball more was all because Reid refused to run the ball as much as he should when McNabb was in there.  Thus getting the guy hurt.  That's what happens when you put 70% of the offense on a mobile QB.  They get hurt.  When Garcia came in, they went to more of a 50/50 balanced approach.  The following year what did AR do?  Go right back back to a pass heavy offense.  That was AR trusting McNabb too much and not being wise enough to have a balanced approach.  That's when I was out on AR.  He deserved to get fired when he did, sooner really.  And it was good, because it forced him to evolve and change.  AR drafted Mahomes and it got him his SB.  Good for him.  But he did McNabb no favors with the lack of weapons and then calling a 65% pass heavy offense.  

 

The message boards were not crucifying McNabb.  Trust me, I was here.  Only after McNabb left is when this place became anti-McNabb.  You can rewrite history all you want, but it doesn't make it so.  

Only one I can remember was ReidMustGo 

He had a weird love obsession with Kolb

[TorontoEagle]

Was just scanning for articles following the 2000 season, and here's a recap of the playoff game from a Giants fan:

https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2001/01/10/playoff-game-review-philadelphia-eagles-new-york-giants-january-7-2001/

Some excerpts:

Game Overview: Thank God that is over. On paper, you figured that the Giants would win this game pretty convincingly because the Giants are a more mature team and more well-rounded on offense. But the Eagles have been giving everyone fits this year (except for the Giants for some reason).

The Eagles will be trouble in the future – give them a good receiver or two and they will be scary.

DE Michael Strahan (4 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble) dominated RT Jon Runyan – one of the best tackles in the league. It was like watching the Strahan of old as he threw the bigger (and probably stronger) Runyan around like a rag doll. And it wasn’t just the two sacks – there were a number of pass pressures coming from Michael all day. The other impact guy up front was DT Cornelius Griffin (4 tackls, 1.5 sacks) who was used as a spy most of the day on McNabb. The Giants would start off with a 4-man rush, but Griffin would peel off as if he were in a zone blitz – but his sole duty was to watch for McNabb’s scrambles (which he did perfectly). It seemed as if every time McNabb took off, Griffin was there. What is remarkable is the athleticism Griffin displayed in taking down McNabb in the open field. We’re talking about a 300 pound lineman after all.

 

So at this point, McNabb was still more of a "running QB". As per my previous issues raised about Hurts, in the playoffs good teams can shut down running QBs. McNabb became a pocket guy because Reid forced it, and we had sustained success thereafter. 

[eglz1]

20 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Wentz can read a defense. There's video of him pre-draft going thru tape and calling out coverages and where to go. It was part of the reason Howie felt he was the guy to trade up for.

Wentz's issue is he wants to play hero ball too often. Doesn't take what the defense gives and holds onto the ball too long resulting in strip sacks, or trying too hard to force a pass when he shouldn't. He is worlds better at actually reading a defense than Hurts. 

Wentz is on record saying he wanted to pattern his game after Favre. One problem is that he didn't have Favre's durability.

[pallidrone]

11 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Just tell us you hate McNabb without flat out saying it.  

You might have been one of those A Holes crucifying him, but the fan base as a whole supported THE F out of him. There was no way the radio airwaves were killing the guy, especially early in his career.  And the Reid needing to run the ball more was all because Reid refused to run the ball as much as he should when McNabb was in there.  Thus getting the guy hurt.  That's what happens when you put 70% of the offense on a mobile QB.  They get hurt.  When Garcia came in, they went to more of a 50/50 balanced approach.  The following year what did AR do?  Go right back back to a pass heavy offense.  That was AR trusting McNabb too much and not being wise enough to have a balanced approach.  That's when I was out on AR.  He deserved to get fired when he did, sooner really.  And it was good, because it forced him to evolve and change.  AR drafted Mahomes and it got him his SB.  Good for him.  But he did McNabb no favors with the lack of weapons and then calling a 65% pass heavy offense.  

 

The message boards were not crucifying McNabb.  Trust me, I was here.  Only after McNabb left is when this place became anti-McNabb.  You can rewrite history all you want, but it doesn't make it so.  

Just utter garbage.

I have been around since 1999. I was here when this board was black and green and was completely run by Spadaro. I was here when the highlight of the board was invading the Cleveland Browns site for fun because we were all miserable. I lived through the entire thing. What I am saying is absolutely what happened. He was severely criticized by day one. The radio personalities in the town threw down the gauntlet with their stupid draft day display and refused to back down. The fanbase that supported him was drowned out by all the negativity surrounding him from a large, vocal portion of the fanbase. It all happened whether you want to gloss over history or not.

I have been and will always be a huge McNabb and Reid fan. They turned this entire franchise around. They brought it from the depths of hell into one of the best franchises in the league. I say all this because it is what happened.

[MF POON]

4 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Was just scanning for articles following the 2000 season, and here's a recap of the playoff game from a Giants fan:

https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2001/01/10/playoff-game-review-philadelphia-eagles-new-york-giants-january-7-2001/

Some excerpts:

Game Overview: Thank God that is over. On paper, you figured that the Giants would win this game pretty convincingly because the Giants are a more mature team and more well-rounded on offense. But the Eagles have been giving everyone fits this year (except for the Giants for some reason).

The Eagles will be trouble in the future – give them a good receiver or two and they will be scary.

DE Michael Strahan (4 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble) dominated RT Jon Runyan – one of the best tackles in the league. It was like watching the Strahan of old as he threw the bigger (and probably stronger) Runyan around like a rag doll. And it wasn’t just the two sacks – there were a number of pass pressures coming from Michael all day. The other impact guy up front was DT Cornelius Griffin (4 tackls, 1.5 sacks) who was used as a spy most of the day on McNabb. The Giants would start off with a 4-man rush, but Griffin would peel off as if he were in a zone blitz – but his sole duty was to watch for McNabb’s scrambles (which he did perfectly). It seemed as if every time McNabb took off, Griffin was there. What is remarkable is the athleticism Griffin displayed in taking down McNabb in the open field. We’re talking about a 300 pound lineman after all.

 

So at this point, McNabb was still more of a "running QB". As per my previous issues raised about Hurts, in the playoffs good teams can shut down running QBs. McNabb became a pocket guy because Reid forced it, and we had sustained success thereafter. 

No, McNabb became a pocket QB because he wanted to, not because Reid forced it. He had been on record stating he wanted to throw from the pocket more, and not take the hits running.  

[pallidrone]

8 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Was just scanning for articles following the 2000 season, and here's a recap of the playoff game from a Giants fan:

https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2001/01/10/playoff-game-review-philadelphia-eagles-new-york-giants-january-7-2001/

Some excerpts:

Game Overview: Thank God that is over. On paper, you figured that the Giants would win this game pretty convincingly because the Giants are a more mature team and more well-rounded on offense. But the Eagles have been giving everyone fits this year (except for the Giants for some reason).

The Eagles will be trouble in the future – give them a good receiver or two and they will be scary.

DE Michael Strahan (4 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble) dominated RT Jon Runyan – one of the best tackles in the league. It was like watching the Strahan of old as he threw the bigger (and probably stronger) Runyan around like a rag doll. And it wasn’t just the two sacks – there were a number of pass pressures coming from Michael all day. The other impact guy up front was DT Cornelius Griffin (4 tackls, 1.5 sacks) who was used as a spy most of the day on McNabb. The Giants would start off with a 4-man rush, but Griffin would peel off as if he were in a zone blitz – but his sole duty was to watch for McNabb’s scrambles (which he did perfectly). It seemed as if every time McNabb took off, Griffin was there. What is remarkable is the athleticism Griffin displayed in taking down McNabb in the open field. We’re talking about a 300 pound lineman after all.

 

So at this point, McNabb was still more of a "running QB". As per my previous issues raised about Hurts, in the playoffs good teams can shut down running QBs. McNabb became a pocket guy because Reid forced it, and we had sustained success thereafter. 

Here is an article from October 2000 - his 2nd place MVP year. - http://www.espn.com/nfl/s/2000/1008/808236.html

Quote

Sunday, October 8 Updated: October 9, 1:12 PM ET   McNabb faces the music By John Clayton ESPN.com

PHILADELPHIA -- Donovan McNabb knows the tough Philadelphia fans. Before the Eagles drafted him, fans marched around Veterans Stadium protesting his potential selection because they wanted halfback Ricky Williams. Make a mistake in the City of Brotherly Love and you better admit it. McNabb did. He threw a critical interception with 23 seconds remaining that cost the Eagles a 17-14 loss to the Redskins in a game that should have gone to overtime. "As a quarterback, you want nothing but positive things for your team," McNabb said. "When things are going well, the quarterback is doing his job. When things are going bad, the quarterback gets all the criticism. I am pretty sure that all you guys are going to write something negative so I'm giving you something negative from me. I have to be the one to learn from it, and when we get rolling again, everyone will be smiling in the locker room." McNabb could look negatively at his last three plays. With 2:54 left, McNabb had Brian Mitchell wide open at midfield on a third-and-2 from the Eagles' 41-yard line. The play required no more than a soft 10-yard lob. McNabb fired a 13-yard bullet that missed the mark and killed what could have been a drive for a game-winning field goal. Still, the Eagles survived. The defense prevented the Redskins from moving into field-goal range, so McNabb had the ball at his 24-yard line with 40 seconds left. On first down, he was sacked by Dan "Big Daddy" Wilkinson. On second down, he was pressured and scrambled to his right. Out of the pocket, he could have dumped the ball in the short zone. Instead, he threw it 30 yards down field into the hands of cornerback Darrell Green, who returned it 33 yards to set up Michael Husted's game-winning, 24-yard field goal with two seconds left. "I felt the pressure from the backside and saw that they were playing deep," McNabb said. "I tried to get the ball out of bounds and got hit while I was throwing. I guess I needed to get it more to the right. It was a critical play and something that I will be thinking about especially when I watch the films. "As a quarterback, you just can't have that. It was a crucial play in the game and it probably cost us the game. You never want to be in that position." No one was more surprised to see that ball than Green, whom McNabb beat for two touchdown passes. "Any time the ball comes and I catch it, I'm surprised," Green said. "He's definitely going to be a great one. He's learning quickly. He's got a great arm and has nothing to be ashamed of. I'll be watching him when I'm a grandpa." Eagles coach Andy Reid defended his quarterback because he likes the mentality. First of all, he explained that 23 seconds remained, and the Redskins could stop the clock with timeouts. He wanted a safe throw, calling a sideline pass to receiver Na Brown. "We moved him out of the pocket and took a shot at it," Reid said. "If it wasn't there, throw it out of bounds and we would continue on. We wanted to press it down the field." What Reid has to worry about is whether McNabb takes this defeat too much to heart. With Duce Staley expected to get a final stress test to determine if he's out for the season with a foot injury, the Eagles' offense falls completely on McNabb.     " As a quarterback, you just can't have (an interception). It was a crucial play in the game and it probably cost us the game. You never want to be in that position. ”     — Donovan McNabb, Eagles quarterback On Sunday, McNabb accounted for all but 57 of the Eagles' 207 yards. He rushed five times for 43 yards and completed 17 of 34 passes for 186 yards and two touchdowns. Four running backs gained only 36 yards on 13 carries. "A couple of the runs by Donovan were called, and some others he took off and ran," Reid said. "He's going to do that. I would like our running backs to have a majority of the carries and yardage." Which is why the Eagles will trade for Steelers halfback Amos Zereoue, J.J. Johnson of the Dolphins or somebody by the 4 p.m. ET trading deadline Tuesday. "This team is very young," Mitchell said. "Look at our roster. We have a lot of guys born in 1974, '75 and '76. We just have to keep playing and limit those mistakes. I think the way they are handling things is way beyond their years." The 40-year-old Green feels that way about McNabb, who was born in 1976. "When he beat me on the first touchdown (a 30-yard pass to Charles Johnson), he made an incredible throw," Green said. "On the other one (an 8-yarder to Brown), I let the guy get behind, but he (McNabb) got rid of the ball so fast it was hard to pick up." But Philadelphia fans are tough, and repeats of these kind of games could intensify the heat on McNabb. Redskins cornerback Deion Sanders is still amazed by Eagles fans. "I don't hate anyone, but I dislike their mannerisms and the way they conduct themselves," Sanders said. "They got little kids up there saying ignorant things. I would like to see them the next 20 years and check out their occupations." Deion, it would be the same as now -- professional critics.

[pallidrone]

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You're dead wrong and lying.  

 

"Large vocal portion of the fan base".  🤣  Yeah, Cataldi and the Dirty 30.  What a large representation of the fan base. 

Sure I am lying. If that makes you sleep better at night then go with that.

[pallidrone]

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You just tried to argue that the fans wanted Reid to run the ball more to take the ball out of McNabb's hands.  That's a flat out lie.  They wanted a balanced attack to protect McNabb and not have him scramble around and throw the ball to guys like Small, Johnson, Thrash, Pinkston and the like.  Rewrite it all you want....but you're just making ish up.  

Yep, that is exactly what I am doing. I am spending my Tuesday after on EMB just making things up for the fun of it. You should start a detective agency as you are so good at it.

[pallidrone]

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You're right.  I am good at pointing out who's right and who's wrong in here.  People like you make it easy though.  

Well, I am a lying idiot that makes things up just because. It is pretty easy then.

[pallidrone]

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

 

 

 

Yep

You are correct. You are the smartest person on the board. Good job. 👍

[TorontoEagle]

2 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

You are correct. 👍

Why do idiots like you conflate criticism of a QB with "we must get rid of him NOWWWWWWWWW" or now with Hurts, "You're racist for criticizing!"

Yes, fans criticized McNabb, because he wasn't perfect. There's more criticism of Hurts now because he's far worse than McNabb was at the same point in their careers. And their physical skills couldn't be more different. The only two things they had in common was their skin colour and they like to run the ball. But even McNabb recognized, as you posted from that article, that he needed to be more of a pocket guy. There's no indication Hurts has any designs on doing the same. 

[TorontoEagle]

From everybody's favourite poster, @Bacarty2:

[pallidrone]

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

Why do idiots like you conflate criticism of a QB with "we must get rid of him NOWWWWWWWWW" or now with Hurts, "You're racist for criticizing!"

Yes, fans criticized McNabb, because he wasn't perfect. There's more criticism of Hurts now because he's far worse than McNabb was at the same point in their careers. And their physical skills couldn't be more different. The only two things they had in common was their skin colour and they like to run the ball. But even McNabb recognized, as you posted from that article, that he needed to be more of a pocket guy. There's no indication Hurts has any designs on doing the same. 

Didn't you answer your own question in your first five words?

[Shalodeep]

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Legit question, what do you think the Eagles record would of been in Minshew started every game?

I have it as the same record, maybe one more win. The teams that beat us were some of the best in the league other than the Giants game and every QB has an unfavorable game once or twice a year

[Shalodeep]

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

Dont want to destroy your argument, (but I'm going to) 

Wentz had 31 sacks in 17 games

Hurts had 28 sacks in 16 games

to go a step further. 

Wentz was sacked every 17 attempts

Hurts was sacked every 15 attempts.

O here's the cherry on top... Hurts had a superior... and I mean SUPERIOR offesnive line. 

I brought up Wentz size helping him get out of sacks. I don't dislike Wentz and wouldn't of minded him staying here and giving us 27/7 a year with this running game. I don't particularly like Hurts at all at this point....but hey, sure. Have that 

[Shalodeep]

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

The false narrative between Hurts/Wentz is hysterical(not you in particular) 

Wentz dominated hurts in every aspect with a way less talented team. 

 

I've said a few times that the crap that Wentz went through from 17-19 with all the injuries and having to play hero ball for this team to do anything changed the course of his career. I don't think he is a bad QB at all and kinda not excited to play him twice a year with the talent down there

[pallidrone]

I always forgot about the articles written like this about other beloved Philadelphia athletes like Brian Dawkins and Jeremiah Trotter.

I just cant stop myself from lying today. It is a bad habit that I need to get therapy for to stop. I should probably call soon.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/702904-donovan-mcnabb-a-history-of-one-of-the-most-hated-players-in-nfl-history

[EagleJoe8]

1 hour ago, pallidrone said:

What hope are you talking about? That entire offseason was spent talking about McNabb and wondering if they were better off with Culpepper because he completely stunk up the joint in that loss to the Giants in the playoffs. That was when he was sacked 6 times, and the only touchdown they had was in the last 2 minutes of the game. That was even after the Giants massacred the Vikings.

I swear so many of you guys forget what happened here. 

Incorrect. The Giants killed Minnesota in the NFCCG. We lost to them in the divisional round. 

[Diehardfan]

23 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

From everybody's favourite poster, @Bacarty2:

Forgot untouchable because of race