On 10/20/2022 at 1:38 PM, Aerolithe_Lion said:

And I think it’s only the Bills. How do you really stop this team? You need a defense as diligent as Dallas’s and a run game that you can go back to 30-35 times. No one is beating us through the air the way we’re playing. Take that away from Mahomes and they become extremely pedestrian. They’ve lost multiple games because Mahomes couldn’t put up points when he had to; that doesn’t get easier against us.  And Buffalo, Dallas, maybe Denver are the only teams I think really have a defensive answer to our knuckleball offense.

To be fair, we haven't exactly gone against the cream of the crop in terms of QBs. The secondary has been superb overall, but I do wonder how they would fair against a team with a better QB.

That said, the QB play around the league as a whole is kinda "meh" this season.

This is a pretty good article about Hurts.

Eagles All-22 Film Review: Jalen Hurts’ improvement is remarkable - Bleeding Green Nation

I think the author gave a fair assessment if Hurts coming into the season and does a good job of going through his play in the first six games.

The schedule is setting up really well, as we have games against two pretty bad defenses (28th and 31st in yards allowed), and then a "mini bye" of 11 days before we play the WFT. I think the two breaks will give the coaching staff a chance to go over what has worked and what hasn't in the first six games, and also get our oline healthy. I think those two areas have been the biggest issues with the offense.

On 10/25/2022 at 5:53 AM, Swoop said:

To be fair, we haven't exactly gone against the cream of the crop in terms of QBs. The secondary has been superb overall, but I do wonder how they would fair against a team with a better QB.

That said, the QB play around the league as a whole is kinda "meh" this season.

Slay has been playing like an all pro but I agree we haven't really faced great offenses

Not having Barnett go offsides once every game has definitely helped the team as well.

Ok, I just saw Jalen's press conference. So the media is really bringing up those photos from back in 2020, lol.   Yes he had on Astros gear back then.   I know it's the World Series and all eyes are on Philly and Houston this week but the Man grew up there, that's his home.   He's also wore Phillies hats before too.  It's all good.  Jalen did say Philly is home now though he will always love his hometown. 

2 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

Ok, I just saw Jalen's press conference. So the media is really bringing up those photos from back in 2020, lol.   Yes he had on Astros gear back then.   I know it's the World Series and all eyes are on Philly and Houston this week but the Man grew up there, that's his home.   He's also wore Phillies hats before too.  It's all good.  Jalen did say Philly is home now though he will always love his hometown. 

If you watch Week 1 of 1991 they interview Cunningham after he gets injured against the Packers and he is wearing a Mets hat. Who cares who you root for in another sport. Shouldn't have to be loyal to everyone in a city.

On 3/5/2022 at 6:33 AM, eagle45 said:

Hurts is a bad passer.  One of the worst in the NFL.

What is the obsession with seeing how good he can be?

Let's find a horrible pass rusher and stick with him for a few years to see what his upside is as a sack artist.  Let's draft a slow CB who can't cover and see what his upside is as a shutdown corner.  Let's draft an OT who can't pass protect and wait a few years to see what his upside is as a blindside blocker.

HE'S A BAD PASSER.  I don't care if he can marginally improve.  Let's find a good passer and see how much better they can get.

 

On 2/15/2022 at 6:43 AM, greend said:

Hurts huggers like to argue that Hurts is good without actually telling anyone what he's good at. Whatever it is that he's good at has nothing to do with passing the ball on time to open receivers.  Let us all know when you guys can argue that he's good at that and maybe you'll change my mind.

 

On 2/16/2022 at 6:34 AM, greend said:

Sorry but, Rodgers or Wilson over Hurts any day all day! 

 

On 3/17/2022 at 9:31 PM, Mike030270 said:

Minshew>Hurts

 

On 3/21/2022 at 7:23 PM, Ipiggles said:

Just a reminder, Hurts is a back up QB at best in the NFL, who is only a weak placeholder till we can get a real QB, mainly because Howie will force him to start to get his value (and save face) out of his 2nd rd pick. Just like we did with JJAW and Reagor.     

 

Carry on. 

 

On 3/24/2022 at 8:25 AM, greend said:

We're all Fed if he's the quarterback this year 

 

On 3/24/2022 at 9:24 AM, downundermike said:

This is the #1 issue, the weapons around him will not matter.  He does not trust clean pockets, bails to early and does not progress through his reads.  

There is a reason that an NFL defensive coach was filmed on the sidelines saying "He can't read".  This is not me or @greend saying it, this is a guy who is paid to stop NFL offenses for a living.

 

On 3/29/2022 at 5:40 PM, pgcd3 said:

I like anyone who isn't Hurts to start this year.  It's ludicrous to waste another season on him

 

On 3/30/2022 at 8:05 AM, Iggles_Phan said:

You are right.  Hurts was drafted (stupidly) to be a backup QB and gadget player in Round 2.  He then was forced into the starting role, because the team miscalculated how that would affect the starting QB.  And here we are, with a gadget player/backup QB as the starter by default, not by design.  Perhaps that's why so many people see him as a short term fill in at the position and in no way a long term solution.

 

On 3/31/2022 at 4:42 AM, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Unfortunately, this is just another case of Howie assuming that he is the smartest guy in the room.  It's still funny to watch some people assume that same guy can snap his fingers and get us out of this QB mess in the next draft.

 

Some of these gems… 😂😂😂

8 hours ago, MidMoFo said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of these gems… 😂😂😂

So many of those were true at the moment. He was one of the worst passers in the NFL. He is still not on pace to pass minshew in completion percentage, rating, and passing touchdowns until next year. An NFL coach screamed he can't read. 

 

Luckily Hurts and the scheme have completely adjusted....and the defense is a penny pincher. 

It blows my mind how people act like none of this wasn't the case or revised the history to it.  Hurts is playing really good ball, but still is on pace for only 17 passing TDS heading into a potential contract year.  The record is insane! And I know all Eagles fans are excited, but there is a reason to look at schedule and ask if we were an AFC team, would we be 6-0.  As the season is progressing, he is slowly sliding down all passing stats rankings. I'm in the camp now I would consider signing him this offseason, but I'm also in the idea of being able to bail out of that contract whenever we need to. Kudos to all who stuck by him through the stinkfest, but to pretend there wasn't a pile of ish out there in the first place is wild.

13 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

So many of those were true at the moment. He was one of the worst passers in the NFL. He is still not on pace to pass minshew in completion percentage, rating, and passing touchdowns until next year. An NFL coach screamed he can't read. 

 

Luckily Hurts and the scheme have completely adjusted....and the defense is a penny pincher. 

It blows my mind how people act like none of this wasn't the case or revised the history to it.  Hurts is playing really good ball, but still is on pace for only 17 passing TDS heading into a potential contract year.  The record is insane! And I know all Eagles fans are excited, but there is a reason to look at schedule and ask if we were an AFC team, would we be 6-0.  As the season is progressing, he is slowly sliding down all passing stats rankings. I'm in the camp now I would consider signing him this offseason, but I'm also in the idea of being able to bail out of that contract whenever we need to. Kudos to all who stuck by him through the stinkfest, but to pretend there wasn't a pile of ish out there in the first place is wild.

Again, for the 100th time, the argument over Hurts wasn't that he was a perfect quarterback. The argument was whether or not he had improved over his career (which he clearly had) and whether or not he could develop into a top 10 qb. 

And now that the thing you spent the entire offseason saying every day couldn't happen, is actually happening, you decide to reframe the entire argument to try and make yourself look less stupid.

Maybe your next post in the thread should be an apology for not listening to people who were only trying to help you understand football a little bit better? 

25 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

So many of those were true at the moment.

At any appropriate moment, I could have said the same "true" statement about any top 10 QB last year. Why? Because all QBs have bad throws, bad games, bad decisions. 

 

29 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

He is still not on pace to pass minshew in completion percentage, rating, and passing touchdowns until next year.

lol. Let me know when Minshew has the yards per completion that Hurts has. I like Minshew. I really do, but are you implying we'd be better off with Minshew this season?

32 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

It blows my mind how people act like none of this wasn't the case or revised the history to it... Kudos to all who stuck by him through the stinkfest, but to pretend there wasn't a pile of ish out there in the first place is wild.

Yeah ... there were a lot of people that never gave him credit for the good play last season. They continued in denial through this off season, training camp and preseason.  Calling 2021 a "stinkfest" is true revisionist history. We were not supposed to win 9 games (could have been 10 if we didn't rest everybody in game 17) last season. We were supposed to be the bottom feeder. I'll give you credit for caring more about QB passing TDs than offensive TDs as you still haven't really wavered there.

There were two noticeable sides to all the arguing last season. One side said Hurts was awful, can't improve, was a RB, not a QB, was too short, had a noodle arm, etc... and one side said those statements were ridiculous exaggerations. One side considered the good play and the bad and one side only considered the bad. 

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-8-2022-season-rankings

Rank

3

 

 

Jalen Hurts

Philadelphia Eagles · Year 3

2022 stats: 6 games | 66.8 pct | 1,514 pass yds | 8.2 ypa | 6 pass TD | 2 INT | 293 rush yds | 6 rush TD | 3 fumbles

 

Only Mahomes’ Chiefs and Allen’s Bills are producing more yards per drive than Hurts’ offense (37.9). His Eagles sit fifth in points per march, but two teams above Philly -- the Lions and Ravens -- are living off early-season outbursts. Hurts has more around him than Lamar Jackson, but the third-year pro has saved his share of marches with his legs and out-of-structure creativity. His leadership breeds brotherhood. If anything, Hurts isn’t getting enough buzz for the intense growth he’s shown from a year ago. Same goes for Eagles coach Nick Sirianni!

10 hours ago, MidMoFo said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of these gems… 😂😂😂

It was accurate at the time

Although we have no idea if it's accurate now

2 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

So many of those were true at the moment. He was one of the worst passers in the NFL. He is still not on pace to pass minshew in completion percentage, rating, and passing touchdowns until next year. An NFL coach screamed he can't read. 

 

Luckily Hurts and the scheme have completely adjusted....and the defense is a penny pincher. 

It blows my mind how people act like none of this wasn't the case or revised the history to it.  Hurts is playing really good ball, but still is on pace for only 17 passing TDS heading into a potential contract year.  The record is insane! And I know all Eagles fans are excited, but there is a reason to look at schedule and ask if we were an AFC team, would we be 6-0.  As the season is progressing, he is slowly sliding down all passing stats rankings. I'm in the camp now I would consider signing him this offseason, but I'm also in the idea of being able to bail out of that contract whenever we need to. Kudos to all who stuck by him through the stinkfest, but to pretend there wasn't a pile of ish out there in the first place is wild.

Is Trevor Lawrence a bust? Should the Jags cut him and move on? Should they go with CJ Beathard who has less turnovers in about the same number of games played?

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

It was accurate at the time

Although we have no idea if it's accurate now

Nope. The argument was Hurts could never progress, never get better and never be a viable nfl qb capable of winning against above average competition.

He has progressed, he has gotten better and he is a viable qb capable of beating above average competition… and turns out, he’s better than Minshew and Carson Strong.

It was not accurate.

2 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

Nope. The argument was Hurts could never progress, never get better and never be a viable nfl qb capable of winning against above average competition.

He has progressed, he has gotten better and he is a viable qb capable of beating above average competition… and turns out, he’s better than Minshew and Carson Strong.

It was not accurate.

I didn't think he could get better. He's definitely changed that. There's still a ton he needs to work on though

I'm not sure about beating above average competition. We have a weak schedule. It's not his fault though. He plays who is on the schedule

I think the offense would still look good with Minshew given time. Would it look as good or would we be undefeated? Who knows

Do I think Minshew is better than Hurts still? Probably not but we wont be able to see unless Hurts gets injured

Hurts has played very well but I don't think Hurts is the offense. If Lurie decided at the end of the season to get someone else then I think they would look good in this offense

25 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

Is Trevor Lawrence a bust? Should the Jags cut him and move on? Should they go with CJ Beathard who has less turnovers in about the same number of games played?

Well… I said before that draft that Lawrence screamed "bust” to me. So yeah… hasn’t done anything to change my mind. 

39 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

Is Trevor Lawrence a bust? Should the Jags cut him and move on? Should they go with CJ Beathard who has less turnovers in about the same number of games played?

He needs to get his turnovers under control, but pretty sure he has the same total touchdowns as Jalen at the moment so guess he can't be doing too damn awful 

2 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Again, for the 100th time, the argument over Hurts wasn't that he was a perfect quarterback. The argument was whether or not he had improved over his career (which he clearly had) and whether or not he could develop into a top 10 qb. 

And now that the thing you spent the entire offseason saying every day couldn't happen, is actually happening, you decide to reframe the entire argument to try and make yourself look less stupid.

Maybe your next post in the thread should be an apology for not listening to people who were only trying to help you understand football a little bit better? 

Actually I've already came out and said he will be talked about top 8. I'm also sure I was the first in the group to admit that he is out playing almost all expectations and I wouldn't be giving him much crap for the rest of the season.  I still think he is being over hyped in a bad QB year and that paying him a huge contract without lots of escapes would be a huge mistake.  This same offense was just used in Chicago and made Fields look good. At this moment he is on pace for 17 passing TDS and 17 rushing tds. Not sustainable 

10 hours ago, MidMoFo said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of these gems… 😂😂😂

These were true at the time. There was a reason Howie Traded a 1 in 22 for a 1 in 23- because the Eagles were also not sure Hurts could make the Jump needed, so they moved some draft capital to next year in case he didn't improve enough.

.  SO kind of a weird flex of you to be spiking the ball on, like you thought Hurts was this good last year, or had shown enough that he could be this good this year? Nah, He needed to make a HUGE leap, that most do not make, to his credit he appears to have made that leap. I am happy about that, and have no issue saying I was wrong.  But even the Eagles didn't believe he would make that big of a leap- which is why they even talked to/ about trading for Watson in the offseason and banked some draft capital into next season. 

Nice try though. You/We/ Eagle's- all got lucky Hurts has improved.  

 

4 hours ago, Ipiggles said:

These were true at the time. There was a reason Howie Traded a 1 in 22 for a 1 in 23- because the Eagles were also not sure Hurts could make the Jump needed, so they moved some draft capital to next year in case he didn't improve enough.

.  SO kind of a weird flex of you to be spiking the ball on, like you thought Hurts was this good last year, or had shown enough that he could be this good this year? Nah, He needed to make a HUGE leap, that most do not make, to his credit he appears to have made that leap. I am happy about that, and have no issue saying I was wrong.  But even the Eagles didn't believe he would make that big of a leap- which is why they even talked to/ about trading for Watson in the offseason and banked some draft capital into next season. 

Nice try though. You/We/ Eagle's- all got lucky Hurts has improved.  

 

It is admirable to see a man to recognize his mistake. I on the other hand was one of the True Believers in Hurts from the beginning. Like many, I saw the lack of experience, and tendency to run, but what made me BELIEVE is a comparison to Joe Montana by one of his X wide receivers. No! it is not the comparable style of play, or any other factor!!! It is the Coolness/Composure/Making the rest of the team better when he is on the field..Or as the receiver called it 2 gallons drums of IT. And by IT I mean charisma, leadership, and other factors that it takes to be a successful QB in the NFL. So Happy to have been proven right ..So far. Much more ahead.

3 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

It is admirable to see a man to recognize his mistake. I on the other hand was one of the True Believers in Hurts from the beginning. Like many, I saw the lack of experience, and tendency to run, but what made me BELIEVE is a comparison to Joe Montana by one of his X wide receivers. No! it is not the comparable style of play, or any other factor!!! It is the Coolness/Composure/Making the rest of the team better when he is on the field..Or as the receiver called it 2 gallons drums of IT. And by IT I mean charisma, leadership, and other factors that it takes to be a successful QB in the NFL. So Happy to have been proven right ..So far. Much more ahead.

I had a lot of question marks on Jalen Hurts last off-season, just like most people. The fact that his teammates and coaching staff had his back is why I was good with giving him another year. No doubt, Roseman pushed a first rounder to 2023 as insurance in case he didn’t improve, I would guess the players and coaches confidence in him is why he got another year as the starter. The fact he can beat teams with his legs gives him an advantage until he figures out the passing game. The thing I wanted to see the most was improvement in pre snap reads. Could he figure out where the soft spots in the defense would be before taking the snap? He has improved and the ball is coming out quicker and his completion percentage is improving because of it.

Is he Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes? No, but neither were they after one season… Brady didn’t top 4,000 yards passing until year 6 and didn’t throw for over 30 TDs until year 8, but these knuckleheads around here expected it from Hurts in year 2!!!
 

All the Hurts haters, who painted themselves in their own corner, by posting with absolute certainty that he could never amount to anything don’t know jack sheet about football. They’re armchair GMs who look at stats and think they know something. I doubt any of them actually played football, much less coach or anything more. They have no idea what team chemistry means and what progress off the field looks like.

Even now, with a 6-0 record… they still think "we were right at the time”… no they weren’t.

I still want to see more from Hurts. Every indication from him, his coaches and his teammates say he’s not done working, so we’ll see what he’s got.

8 hours ago, Ipiggles said:

These were true at the time. There was a reason Howie Traded a 1 in 22 for a 1 in 23- because the Eagles were also not sure Hurts could make the Jump needed, so they moved some draft capital to next year in case he didn't improve enough.

.  SO kind of a weird flex of you to be spiking the ball on, like you thought Hurts was this good last year, or had shown enough that he could be this good this year? Nah, He needed to make a HUGE leap, that most do not make, to his credit he appears to have made that leap. I am happy about that, and have no issue saying I was wrong.  But even the Eagles didn't believe he would make that big of a leap- which is why they even talked to/ about trading for Watson in the offseason and banked some draft capital into next season. 

Nice try though. You/We/ Eagle's- all got lucky Hurts has improved.  

 

Sorry. A lot of fans had reason for optimism, but a select few mocked the notion. Remember how much flack PFF was given for this:

 

 

Hurts skeptics insisted there was no way Hurts could be number 11 --- especially when he was ahead of Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson and even Carson Wentz. "How could this be when Hurts wasn't even in the top 20 in 3 passing statistics?!?!" LOL. Some of the skeptics got caught up in the circle jerk and refused to acknowledge the progress he made last season. After last season, which ended on a bad note, skeptics said he didn't have an NFL arm. Jaworski admitted he had doubts about Hurts' future (as the Eagles' QB moving forward) after the playoff game, but he never questioned Hurts' arm. He said the only thing affecting Hurts' pass velocity in games was his foot mechanics. Coincidentally, the team and Hurts agreed in the offseason for Hurts to work with specialists and Jaworski claimed the difference was evident, even before the regular season began. Heck, you can go back in this thread and read for yourself everything that was posted and then rejected by skeptics. But there were quite a few Eagles fans that understand "player growth" that felt Hurts was on track and improving. There were plenty of articles where people said it was reasonable to expect a large leap from last year to this year, based on several things (continuity in the offense/system, better weapons, normal growth/maturity, etc...) Now we're going to pretend that nobody believed he could take the next step?

Howie did what Howie does. He explores every possibility, had the assets to make any of the possible moves and ultimately did not replace Hurts. Instead, he built a roster around Hurts. He also traded a 2022 pick for a 2023 pick, betting on us having a better record with Hurts obviously being the guy for us. There was also a little cap relief by not having three 1st round picks to sign after the draft. Certainly, the move provided us flexibility if Hurts failed, but that doesn't mean they expected failure. Hurts could ball out all year and then get a devastating injury like Bridgewater or A. Smith at the end of the season putting his 2023 in jeopardy.  All I can say is that Howie drafted Hurts, has shown support for Hurts, has built a strong roster around Hurts and has been winning trades. You can give me 1000 "what ifs" and it doesn't change who is here leading this team from the QB position. I couldn't care less about what trade(s) we didn't do. There's a reason we didn't do them.

 

14 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Sorry. A lot of fans had reason for optimism, but a select few mocked the notion. Remember how much flack PFF was given for this:

 

 

Hurts skeptics insisted there was no way Hurts could be number 11 --- especially when he was ahead of Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson and even Carson Wentz. "How could this be when Hurts wasn't even in the top 20 in 3 passing statistics?!?!" LOL. Some of the skeptics got caught up in the circle jerk and refused to acknowledge the progress he made last season. After last season, which ended on a bad note, skeptics said he didn't have an NFL arm. Jaworski admitted he had doubts about Hurts' future (as the Eagles' QB moving forward) after the playoff game, but he never questioned Hurts' arm. He said the only thing affecting Hurts' pass velocity in games was his foot mechanics. Coincidentally, the team and Hurts agreed in the offseason for Hurts to work with specialists and Jaworski claimed the difference was evident, even before the regular season began. Heck, you can go back in this thread and read for yourself everything that was posted and then rejected by skeptics. But there were quite a few Eagles fans that understand "player growth" that felt Hurts was on track and improving. There were plenty of articles where people said it was reasonable to expect a large leap from last year to this year, based on several things (continuity in the offense/system, better weapons, normal growth/maturity, etc...) Now we're going to pretend that nobody believed he could take the next step?

Howie did what Howie does. He explores every possibility, had the assets to make any of the possible moves and ultimately did not replace Hurts. Instead, he built a roster around Hurts. He also traded a 2022 pick for a 2023 pick, betting on us having a better record with Hurts obviously being the guy for us. There was also a little cap relief by not having three 1st round picks to sign after the draft. Certainly, the move provided us flexibility if Hurts failed, but that doesn't mean they expected failure. Hurts could ball out all year and then get a devastating injury like Bridgewater or A. Smith at the end of the season putting his 2023 in jeopardy.  All I can say is that Howie drafted Hurts, has shown support for Hurts, has built a strong roster around Hurts and has been winning trades. You can give me 1000 "what ifs" and it doesn't change who is here leading this team from the QB position. I couldn't care less about what trade(s) we didn't do. There's a reason we didn't do them.

Glad you had faith-  However

Again the Eagles themselves did not have as much faith as you did that Hurts would make the leap he has. Trying to spike the football on that is laughable. We are all better for him having made the leap, but it was not a given as some of you had suggested. He had real issues he needed to fix, to date it appears he has grown leaps and bounds. 

Acting like you KNEW he would is laughable, the eagles didn't know, and they were the closest to him. 

8 hours ago, Ipiggles said:

Glad you had faith-  However

Again the Eagles themselves did not have as much faith as you did that Hurts would make the leap he has. Trying to spike the football on that is laughable. We are all better for him having made the leap, but it was not a given as some of you had suggested. He had real issues he needed to fix, to date it appears he has grown leaps and bounds. 

Acting like you KNEW he would is laughable, the eagles didn't know, and they were the closest to him. 

Nobody knows the future about anything or anybody. Nobody knew Wentz would go from MVP frontrunner to perennial scape goat in just 3 seasons. Nobody knew Russell Wilson would fall off a cliff after being traded and signing a huge deal. Nobody knew Watson had more unsettled legal issues. But people had clues about all of them. Wentz struggled to regain the magic after his knee injury. Wilson was coming off a disappointing season. Watson ... well ... there was a pretty obvious trend. Hurts was showing improvement as an NFL QB last season. People had reason to believe the improvement would continue based on his work ethic and attitude.

 

The Eagles never knew how Hurts would ultimately work out. Last year, before the regular season began, they traded for Minshew. When an injury gave Minshew a chance, he played really well. Still, the Eagles never waivered about who the starter was. But somehow, some of you had the impression the Eagles didn't have faith in Hurts. We are currently watching the trade deadline approach and so far there wasn't a single player in the news that wasn't linked to the Eagles because "Howie." So when we were supposedly going after Watson and Wilson, how much of that was click bait and how much was reality? The reality that I see is that the Eagles have stood behind Hurts, designed the offense around him, have not replaced him, have brought players in that fit with what we do in an offense designed around Hurts, and are allowing him to grow and improve as a player.

 

For the record, I never acted like "I knew" anything. I didn't make bold predictions or claims. I merely defended Hurts in arguments about him that were absurd. I don't recall anybody predicting Hurts would be ranked in the NFL's top 5 QBs near midseason or that he would make the players' top 100 list after the season, or whatever, but I do recall many claims made that he was not and would never be a starting caliber NFL QB, that his issues as a passer were not correctable,  that Carson Strong would be the starter before the 2022 season ended, etc... If anybody was spiking the football, it was the people that insisted he could not be what he has become. The only problem is they were celebrating before the games even started. Now they look like fools. I don't know if you were one of them, but it's laughable that someone is now trying to act like the people that were willing to patiently let a young, improving player grow were the ones that pretended to know the future.