Joe Banner has a great football/front office mind. I trust his opinion on this sort of thing.

2 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

And when Wentz and this team are back in tune, you will jump right back on the wagon....until he has a bad game, then you will be back off...then back on again....and so on and so on.     

The same will go for Hurts or any other QB or coach or GM. 

No not exactly. I stood by Wentz and defended him for a long time. He sucked for the entire year and at that point I decided that he's not the answer. If he turns it around and finds that consistency that he needs at a high level then I'll gladly be wrong. 

13 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

No not exactly. I stood by Wentz and defended him for a long time. He sucked for the entire year and at that point I decided that he's not the answer. If he turns it around and finds that consistency that he needs at a high level then I'll gladly be wrong. 

And jump right back on the Wentz hype train.

13 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

And jump right back on the Wentz hype train.

I don't see it that way no. I see a QB who in 2016 showed real promise as a rookie. 2017 was an mvp front runner until he got hurt. And since then has been very up and down and then this year completely sucked.

To be on the hype train when he's sucked every single week for 12/13 weeks is ridiculous. But if he then started producing at a high level and sustained that then to say he still sucks would be equally as ridiculous. 

People who jump on and off the hype train do so far one or two games. I, and many others, have not done that. 

I don't know that there has to be a  fall guy. Lurie could tell the fans to screw themselves and bring back everyone year after year. 

IMO, Doug has won more games than we should've expected given the talent he had to work with (after the injuries). But hey, if the princesses want his head on a platter, then it's Herod's decision, not mine. 

19 hours ago, eglz1 said:

If I were a GM considering a trade for Wentz, I'd require some sort of neurological evaluation to try to determine if he has some sort of post concussion syndrome. Maybe he's just messed up from Foles/Hurts/mostly sub-par receivers/Philadelphia or maybe there's more to it.

Sometimes people just don't want to accept the obvious answer. 

Can you point me to an example of this "post concussion syndrome" having a similar effect on another professional athlete? People are really trying too hard to rationalize away the obvious reasons for statistical decline. The number 1 factor, and it's crazy to dismiss this, is offensive cohesion. People have been in and out of the lineup all year. Many are learning and probably weren't ready to be playing as much as they had to. Some got better over the course of the year, some proved to be liabilities. 

A factor is a contributor. But the main factor isn't the only contributor to his statistical decline. There are other reasons. I know people don't want to hear this either, but sometimes plays are close --- sometimes they come down to inches --- sometimes the defense does just enough to prevent a play from working. Some years, you might benefit more from these "close" plays.  Some years you might be on the short end. 

Another big difference this year was fan attendance. Why do Eagles fans yell after big plays and boo after struggles pile up? In a normal NFL setting, there's an energy there that can motivate a team throughout a game. That was gone this year. I actually think the lack of crowd noise (in game fan imposed accountability) contributed to another factor:

Offensive balance. We all saw the passing game struggle on all levels. Rather than turn to the running game to "help," we often just passed more hoping things would turn around. 

 

Even after considering all the factors, Wentz has to find a way to play better. When he fails to see, or pull the trigger on an open WR, it hurts the offense and contributes to the factors. When he turns the ball over, it becomes a factor for the offense and the defense. I would agree with people 100% that the issue is mental --- that Wentz allowed factors to contribute to his statistical decline. I will not agree that this is a neurological issue since it would be a first of it's kind professional sports. Just accept reality. I don't know why people ignore the example of Agholor's mental struggles and refuse to apply that to other players at other positions. 

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Sometimes people just don't want to accept the obvious answer. 

Can you point me to an example of this "post concussion syndrome" having a similar effect on another professional athlete? People are really trying too hard to rationalize away the obvious reasons for statistical decline. The number 1 factor, and it's crazy to dismiss this, is offensive cohesion. People have been in and out of the lineup all year. Many are learning and probably weren't ready to be playing as much as they had to. Some got better over the course of the year, some proved to be liabilities. 

A factor is a contributor. But the main factor isn't the only contributor to his statistical decline. There are other reasons. I know people don't want to hear this either, but sometimes plays are close --- sometimes they come down to inches --- sometimes the defense does just enough to prevent a play from working. Some years, you might benefit more from these "close" plays.  Some years you might be on the short end. 

Another big difference this year was fan attendance. Why do Eagles fans yell after big plays and boo after struggles pile up? In a normal NFL setting, there's an energy there that can motivate a team throughout a game. That was gone this year. I actually think the lack of crowd noise (in game fan imposed accountability) contributed to another factor:

Offensive balance. We all saw the passing game struggle on all levels. Rather than turn to the running game to "help," we often just passed more hoping things would turn around. 

 

Even after considering all the factors, Wentz has to find a way to play better. When he fails to see, or pull the trigger on an open WR, it hurts the offense and contributes to the factors. When he turns the ball over, it becomes a factor for the offense and the defense. I would agree with people 100% that the issue is mental --- that Wentz allowed factors to contribute to his statistical decline. I will not agree that this is a neurological issue since it would be a first of it's kind professional sports. Just accept reality. I don't know why people ignore the example of Agholor's mental struggles and refuse to apply that to other players at other positions. 

Disclaimer: I am not a neurologist or other medical professional.  CTE wasn't a thing either, it was just 'getting his bell rung'. We now know better. Are there other 'surprises' lurking? Not strictly related but you know the medical establishment was certain for the longest time that there was no pathogen involved in the formation of stomach ulcers, it was all stress related. The point being just because something is not yet known or documented doesn't doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Of course if a thing is not yet documented how do you test for it? Good question.

On 12/30/2020 at 7:01 AM, BayAreaLennie said:

BTW, here are all the picks the Eagles have had in the first 100 picks of the past 3 drafts:

2018:  49th pick - Dallas Goedert

2019:  22nd pick - Andre Dillard

2019:  53rd pick - Miles Sanders

2019:  57th pick - JJ Arcega-Whiteside

2020:  21st pick - Jalen Reagor

2020:  53rd pick - Jalen Hurts

That's it.  Mostly because of trades that loaded up the 2017 Super Bowl team, they have been bereft of top picks.  Not one was a premium pick, with 21st the highest.  There are by my eyes two moderate successes (Goedert and Sanders), one incomplete but looking promising (Hurts), one too early to tell (Reagor), one too early to tell but leaning against (Dillard) and one unmitigated failure (Arcega-Whiteside).  That seems ... extraordinarily normal ... by NFL standards, considering the slots of all those picks.

Everything after the top 100 is a crapshoot -- the Eagles did pick up a few potential contributors (e.g., Maddox, Pryor, Mailata, Herbig) and the jury is still out on a lot of players.

Yeah this is the reality. Howie hasn't been great over the past 3 years, but his drafting hasn't been nearly as bad as people on this board are making out. 

People miss on players all the time. My main issue with Howie in terms of drafting is the complete failure to address the D in the draft which will probably lose us Schwartz (people will celebrate then end up shocked when we have a bottom 5/10 D next year).

Mailata was a great pick, he's had a really good season and in my mind, Dillard needs to beat him out, not the other way round. A lot of people hate Jalen Mills on this board, but he is a serviceable NFL starter and there are not many 7th rounders who make it.

 

1 hour ago, eglz1 said:

Disclaimer: I am not a neurologist or other medical professional.  CTE wasn't a thing either, it was just 'getting his bell rung'. We now know better. Are there other 'surprises' lurking? Not strictly related but you know the medical establishment was certain for the longest time that there was no pathogen involved in the formation of stomach ulcers, it was all stress related. The point being just because something is not yet known or documented doesn't doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Of course if a thing is not yet documented how do you test for it? Good question.

Some people aren't ruling out alien abductions in the world. Just because these people aren't ruling them out does not mean they aren't nonsense. 

In the case of post concussion Wentz and the idea that there can be some neurological side effect lingering ... I mean --- why would it only affect football? If his mind was slower to process information, it would be even more devastating while driving a car, shooting, hunting, talking etc... The whole concept is absurd, not only for the fact that there is no medical basis to support such a condition, but because it ignores other evidence that would disprove it. Wentz had his worst statistical season. This is not a new thing in sports. It happens. That it happened in 2020 to a young QB is not a huge surprise. Normally he would have invited his receivers to a chemistry building "camp" prior to training camp, but that didn't happen in 2020. Anyway, Wentz will get his chance here or somewhere else to put this year behind him. Players bounce back from poor seasons all the time. In his case, he's just going to have to put in the work to get back on track. Like I said, I believe it's 100% mental (the physical abilities are all still there). 

3 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I mean --- why would it only affect football? If his mind was slower to process information, it would be even more devastating while driving a car, shooting, hunting, talking etc.

Well I mean it depends doesn't it... I mean I agree with your point overall but then on a football field he's having to process things very quickly etc. It's not a normal environment necessarily. Now I agree why wouldn't it affect other aspects of his life but those other aspects, or a lot of them, are all second nature to him. Driving a car most of us do almost on autopilot.

On 12/30/2020 at 4:01 PM, BayAreaLennie said:

BTW, here are all the picks the Eagles have had in the first 100 picks of the past 3 drafts:

2018:  49th pick - Dallas Goedert

2019:  22nd pick - Andre Dillard

2019:  53rd pick - Miles Sanders

2019:  57th pick - JJ Arcega-Whiteside

2020:  21st pick - Jalen Reagor

2020:  53rd pick - Jalen Hurts

That's it.  Mostly because of trades that loaded up the 2017 Super Bowl team, they have been bereft of top picks.  Not one was a premium pick, with 21st the highest.  There are by my eyes two moderate successes (Goedert and Sanders), one incomplete but looking promising (Hurts), one too early to tell (Reagor), one too early to tell but leaning against (Dillard) and one unmitigated failure (Arcega-Whiteside).  That seems ... extraordinarily normal ... by NFL standards, considering the slots of all those picks.

Everything after the top 100 is a crapshoot -- the Eagles did pick up a few potential contributors (e.g., Maddox, Pryor, Mailata, Herbig) and the jury is still out on a lot of players.

But Howie is skinny, he has a high-pitched voice, he sounds a little too smart, and he never played football, so he's always going to be the first person the fans want to behead when things are hard.

No analysis or facts are going to change that. 

42 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Well I mean it depends doesn't it... I mean I agree with your point overall but then on a football field he's having to process things very quickly etc. It's not a normal environment necessarily. Now I agree why wouldn't it affect other aspects of his life but those other aspects, or a lot of them, are all second nature to him. Driving a car most of us do almost on autopilot.

Also most of those activities don't require sub 1 second processing of multiple factors.

42 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Well I mean it depends doesn't it... I mean I agree with your point overall but then on a football field he's having to process things very quickly etc. It's not a normal environment necessarily. Now I agree why wouldn't it affect other aspects of his life but those other aspects, or a lot of them, are all second nature to him. Driving a car most of us do almost on autopilot.

Football is his career. You can say the same things about careers. In fact, I would be willing to bet he has invested much, much more of his life playing, learning, studying football than he has behind the wheel at this point. That is probably true for all of us that don't spend 8+ hours a day behind the wheel. When we drive, we still have to process information very quickly --- it's pretty much a life or death situation unlike football. 

2 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

Also most of those activities don't require sub 1 second processing of multiple factors.

Are you kidding me? Hunting, shooting, driving?

Just now, brkmsn said:

Football is his career. You can say the same things about careers. In fact, I would be willing to bet he has invested much, much more of his life playing, learning, studying football than he has behind the wheel at this point. That is probably true for all of us that don't spend 8+ hours a day behind the wheel. When we drive, we still have to process information very quickly --- it's pretty much a life or death situation unlike football. 

Are you kidding me? Hunting, shooting, driving?

Those are mostly binary choices. The only shooting activity I can see comparable would be skeet or trap, I can never keep them straight, the one with 2 targets at the same time. Even there you're not having to choose the best of 4 targets and those 2 targets don't have defenders trying to prevent a successful shot. Driving? Not close IMO, there are few driving situations that require as rapid processing of as many factors. The amount of twisted metal is an indication of how good most of us are at it.  Hunting? Maybe wing shooting. JMO of course.

On 12/13/2020 at 7:22 AM, Mr_Philly said:

Don’t kid yourself, Lurie is not a dumb man and he is seeing what we all are seeing. Lurie has made changes in the FO before by demoting Howie under Chip Kelly and I wouldn’t be surprised if he forced Howie to bring in Douglas. 
Lurie is a nice guy but he won’t tolerate his organization being the laughing stock of the NFL.

Thrash and Pinkston started for this team. (Mic drop)

46 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

Those are mostly binary choices. The only shooting activity I can see comparable would be skeet or trap, I can never keep them straight, the one with 2 targets at the same time. Even there you're not having to choose the best of 4 targets and those 2 targets don't have defenders trying to prevent a successful shot. Driving? Not close IMO, there are few driving situations that require as rapid processing of as many factors. The amount of twisted metal is an indication of how good most of us are at it.  Hunting? Maybe wing shooting. JMO of course.

Driving requires non-stop processing of information. We're not talking about riding a train here. Start paying attention to how often you apply brakes (is it lightly or hard), how often your foot moves to "cover" the brake pedal in a situation. Is there something in the road? Something that might be in the road? What is that guy doing in the lane next to you? Where are you when the light turns yellow? Seriously, there are so many split-second decisions to be made and you often are only a few feet away from head on collisions. It's constant visual processing. 

16 minutes ago, SPIDER-MAN said:

Thrash and Pinkston started for this team. (Mic drop)

And how many games did the Eagles win back in the day with Thrash and Pinkston starting, as I recall they went to several NFC Championship games in a row when those two were playing, the Eagles finally made it the SB the fourth NFC Championship game when they added TO but he was hurt during the playoff run. 
 

A good young new coach will invigorate the team, get a chance to straighten out Wentz and bring an offensive scheme where guys actually get open a la KC.  Maybe I am missing something but this seems like an obvious and necessary move for the Eagles.  Plus it will give the fans something to look forward to after two seasons of mediocrity.  Maybe the guy from OK who already knows Hurts.  Or the guy from Bama who knows Devonta if we draft him.  Either way, the new NFL is here and we need to adjust.

7 hours ago, Miami said:

A good young new coach will invigorate the team, get a chance to straighten out Wentz and bring an offensive scheme where guys actually get open a la KC.  Maybe I am missing something but this seems like an obvious and necessary move for the Eagles.  Plus it will give the fans something to look forward to after two seasons of mediocrity.  Maybe the guy from OK who already knows Hurts.  Or the guy from Bama who knows Devonta if we draft him.  Either way, the new NFL is here and we need to adjust.

Sounds eerily similar to what Jeff Lurie said after he hired Chip. Doug knows how to win a Super Bowl. He knows how to construct an offense. What he needs is talent and an answer to this injury insanity. If he had the starting offense line to work with and DJ Metcalf and Justin Jefferson we all would be pretty happy right now. 

3 hours ago, Runtherock said:

Sounds eerily similar to what Jeff Lurie said after he hired Chip. Doug knows how to win a Super Bowl. He knows how to construct an offense. What he needs is talent and an answer to this injury insanity. If he had the starting offense line to work with and DJ Metcalf and Justin Jefferson we all would be pretty happy right now. 

This is true and that's why although Doug has to take some of the blame he's not the main issue. The biggest issue is this roster and the second biggest issue is the damn awful QB play from Wentz.