8 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

You do realize wentz doesn’t have to go off the reservation for this to blowup in their face right? Locker room dynamic, city dynamic, cap factor for 2022, wentz’s future value. i can think of at least 5 more. 

And then he decided to leave Alabama and go to Oklahoma because he wasn’t happy with the situation and his role. Let’s just forget about that fact. So he wasn’t exactly thrilled and then he wanted out. he could eventually be unhappy with his role here. Now you got two unhappy QBs

and just so you know go look at their salary cap next year in 2022 as of right now. They are under the By $512k. Minnesota who’s 31st is about 20 mil under. So that ranks 32nd in the league for 2022. In order to get to the middle of the pack they would have to get to $80 million according to spotrac. So this it’s a one year blip they keep talking about is not necessarily true. They might not be 60 mil over but they aren’t in great shape for 2022 either even after they make some moves. 

Pretty simple. Somebody makes trouble in the lockeroom bench or cut them. As far as the fans who cares? Nothing ever pleases them. Even after winning the super bowl fans ****ed about stuff.

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He was better. The eye test shows he was better. He wasn't great, he was probably about average but he was better. It may not have been by a lot but he was better. 

He was 1 read and run. To me that's not a better qb and not sustainable. 

The offense moved the football better with Hurts and there was a visible uptick in the energy and pace with Hurts in...basically went from the efficiency of rolling a triangle to a square.

1 read and run was exactly what Hurts was.  And the more critical the situation and longer the distance, the quicker he quit on the read(s) and took off.  That’s just a horrible decision to build around.

For a rookie...bad decisions, fumbles, int’s...you can aspire to cleaning that up.  But why commit to a guy who clearly believes his arm is the second best way he can move the football?  

Both Wentz and Hurts should be much better next year.

1) OL should be more stable, unlikely to have a similar spate of injuries, and depth is much better (young backups got NFL experience)

2) Eagles are almost certain to add at least one weapon in the draft, if not more, and the young WRs will have a chance to be coached up

3) Wentz will be motivated to fix his mechanical flaws, and Hurts will have a whole offseason to prepare for the NFL and some top QB coaching

It's amazing how people look at 4 games for a rookie who had almost no reps with the 1s and a limited offseason and declare him a finished product.

 

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Both Wentz and Hurts should be much better next year.

1) OL should be more stable, unlikely to have a similar spate of injuries, and depth is much better (young backups got NFL experience)

2) Eagles are almost certain to add at least one weapon in the draft, if not more, and the young WRs will have a chance to be coached up

3) Wentz will be motivated to fix his mechanical flaws, and Hurts will have a whole offseason to prepare for the NFL and some top QB coaching

It's amazing how people look at 4 games for a rookie who had almost no reps with the 1s and a limited offseason and declare him a finished product.

 

No one is declaring Hurts a finished product.  You can’t have your best argument to commit to hurts as franchise qb be that he runs a good 40, is athletic, other qbs with underwhelming arm talent have been outstanding, and hes only played 4 games.

They cut Thorson when he played 0. Was that amazing and premature?

Hurts has always been a raw, run dependent passer.  The onus is on him to surprise and show that he can be a starting nfl qb.  It’s not that you just assume he’ll be better or should start until he unquestionably proves he sucks over 16 games.

Also, you’ve rationalized every year for about 10 years why the wrs will be better.  And with Lane and Brooks, they’ll be shuffling the right side of the OL due to injuries by week 2 at the latest.  This time they may not have Kelce as an anchor of continuity.  

10 hours ago, austinfan said:

I don't think players pushing 30 should be pushing for big new deals from Howie, he's been burned before.

I thought Howie could do no wrong...

8 hours ago, austinfan said:

Wentz could be a top ten QB in Indy, Chicago? Not so sure, he needs the right situation.

But I don't think he's going to play until 35, a couple more injuries and I see him doing what Luck did, take the money and retire before he's a damaged middle aged man.

And it may have been the sequence of injuries that soured Howie on his future, Wentz wouldn't be the first promising QB to break down by his early 30s.

When Howie signed him to the extension, he was coming off two top ten seasons, he was only going to turn 27 in December 2019, the extension covered age 28-31, it was a reasonable assumption at that time that he would be playing at a high level through his contract. And he did play all 16 games in 2019. He may well go elsewhere and play at a high level for 3-4 years. Sometimes crap happens.

The reason they had confidence in the first place was that he played a pro style system in college, so they could get a better read on his skills than with most college QBs. Problem is he also played at a small college in a rural area, so it was a big cultural shock.

And sometimes executives lose their jobs because of it...

 

...but not here, despite repeated episodes of crap happening.

12 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

And sometimes executives lose their jobs because of it...

 

...but not here, despite repeated episodes of crap happening.

Usually... almost all the time... executives lose their jobs for their mistakes.

12 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

And sometimes executives lose their jobs because of it...

 

...but not here, despite repeated episodes of crap happening.

Yes, when they don't win for years. Do two rebuilds, the second one culminating in a SB victory and you get a lot more slack than say Grigson in Indy, where he did a rebuild, made the playoffs three times, then the team flatlined and missed the playoffs for two seasons, going 8-8. Given he had a healthy Luck in 2016, they went a different direction.

Howie has to deliver, if this team isn't clearly on the upswing by 2023, he's on thin ice. The next two seasons are all about accumulating young talent and clearing out dead money.

 

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Yes, when they don't win for years. Do two rebuilds, the second one culminating in a SB victory and you get a lot more slack than say Grigson in Indy, where he did a rebuild, made the playoffs three times, then the team flatlined and missed the playoffs for two seasons, going 8-8. Given he had a healthy Luck in 2016, they went a different direction.

Howie has to deliver, if this team isn't clearly on the upswing by 2023, he's on thin ice. The next two seasons are all about accumulating young talent and clearing out dead money.

 

So the next 2 seasons are all about young talent, cleaning out dead money, and we don’t need to be on the upswing until 2023, yet both qbs will somehow be much better next year.

1 hour ago, greend said:

He was 1 read and run. To me that's not a better qb and not sustainable. 

2 for 22

8 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

He would win the job not just because of his contract and they want to showcase him.  He'd win the job because he's the better QB, at least right now.  Unless Jalen comes in to TC and improves drastically which I dont see.

 

He isn't the better QB right now though.  Hurts was better than Wentz last season and I don't see why we are assuming Wentz will be better next year when he is in decline and Hurts should be taking a step forward in his second year. 

16 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Yes, when they don't win for years. Do two rebuilds, the second one culminating in a SB victory and you get a lot more slack than say Grigson in Indy, where he did a rebuild, made the playoffs three times, then the team flatlined and missed the playoffs for two seasons, going 8-8. Given he had a healthy Luck in 2016, they went a different direction.

Howie has to deliver, if this team isn't clearly on the upswing by 2023, he's on thin ice. The next two seasons are all about accumulating young talent and clearing out dead money.

 

I thought Howie was just a consensus builder? (At least that is your claim when things go wrong). In the above post, he is the architect, the mastermind. 

 

So the previous seasons were not about accumulating young talent? That certainly explains Howie's performance with respect to the draft.

Wentz vs. Hurts is not even close, dont kid yourself. 

Wow, there was a small and temporary blip when the backup came in--you dont say, that never happens!  

Wentz will easily be the better QB next year and over the next 5 years, because hes more talented.

Just now, Mike31mt said:

Wentz will easily be the better QB next year and over the next 5 years, because hes more talented.

Maybe. While Wentz unquestionably has a higher ceiling, his floor is likely lower than Hurts too.

10 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Wentz vs. Hurts is not even close, dont kid yourself. 

Wow, there was a small and temporary blip when the backup came in--you dont say, that never happens!  

Wentz will easily be the better QB next year and over the next 5 years, because hes more talented.

 

What did you see last year that made you say, "Oh yeah, Wentz is turning this around. He will be much better next season." 

1 hour ago, greend said:

He was 1 read and run. To me that's not a better qb and not sustainable. 

Damn you, greend! The Eye Test shows something different.  Go get some glasses!

23 minutes ago, downundermike said:

2 for 22

You must need glasses, too.  You flunked the Eye Test.

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

This makes absolutely no sense.  How do you know this?   Especially after only 4 games from Hurts.  Be careful.  Because if you go the direction, I think you will, I have a retort.  

Let's guess....His theory is based on the eye test?

27 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

What did you see last year that made you say, "Oh yeah, Wentz is turning this around. He will be much better next season." 

Doug and his coaching staff was fired. 

11 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

This makes absolutely no sense.  How do you know this?   Especially after only 4 games from Hurts.  Be careful.  Because if you go the direction, I think you will, I have a retort.  

The odds that Hurts will ever had an MVP season (Wentz's ceiling, 2017) are very, very, very low.

11 minutes ago, RLC said:

The odds that Hurts will ever had an MVP season (Wentz's ceiling, 2017) are very, very, very low.

I think he meant your comment that his floor is lower. For one no ones floor is different. The floor is the same for everyone. 

We get it, Hurts can run the ball better then Wentz. Many have said it, it was a 1 read then take off set up for him. If you take away Hurts running, he was just as bad as Carson in his 4 games. He was getting sacked, fumbled and threw a crap ton of bad passes. It is a team sport and when your oline is Swiss cheese, your recs cant shake off any coverage and your coaches game plan just flat our blows chunks then your QB will not play well. 

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Based on last year that's simply not true though is it. Wentz was the worst QB in the league, Hurts was better than that. That's not to say Hurts was great but he was better. 

Right, based on last year.  But we're starting a whole new year, new coaching staff, new offensive system.  I still feel Wentz can be a very good QB but his problem is mental.  A new coach can do wonders for that and I dont think he will continue to play as bad as he did in 2020.  He wont ever be the 2017 Wentz but he can be a good QB.

But if they get offered a 1st or two 1st rounders than trade him.  But dont trade him just to get rid of him like the Rams did with Goff.

Hurts:

Floor - Tebow 

Ceiling - Case Keenum with Taysom Hill running ability 

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

No ish Sherlock.   I’m talking about "his floor is likely lower than Hurts as well”.   I can’t wait to hear this explanation.  

We saw Hurts and Wentz in the same offense with the same personnel and Hurts was demonstrably better.