13 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

To be fair that’s, that’s going to drastically change. That’s with Malik having a $23M cap charge and Alshon at $14M. There’s others like Goodwin being $7M and of course Wentz being the big one. 

Still it’s not just a one year blip. They still aren’t exactly in stellar positioning. They are likely bottom 10 in the league. They are still far behind most of the league. Even with those guys being gone they leave behind dead money and have some count toward the cap I’m guessing they still aren’t close to the middle of the pack. And they are going to have a bunch of holes. 

so I just went on over the Cap used the Calculator tool to release or trade wentz, malik, jeffery and Goodwin. Put you just under 40 million in Space however you only have 37 players signed and you would still be ranked 28th in the league in Space. It’s still not ideal. And when they were discussing it I think wentz was still in their plans so really it is far less than that at the time they said it. 

4 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Just me, I'd rather see Wentz play under a new coach and system than see Hurts play.  There's been "reports" that Sirianni prefers Wentz and wants to keep him.  It's because he's the better QB.  He just needs some fixing.  I'm not saying he's going to be 2017 Wentz again but he can be a good QB.  I don't expect him to play anywhere as bad as he did in 2020.

Don;t even bother replying to him. Hes like the village idiot of the boards. What ever he reads on twitter he follows. If Wentz stays and has a good year he will turn yet again and say he supported Wentz all along. Surprised you would even read his novel long post. Most wouldn't waste their time. 

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

Get off of this nonsense.  Quit pretending as though nobody was familiar with Hurts all the way back to a freshman at Alabama.  We’re not talking about 4 games — it’s 4 years, plus 4 games.

His 4 games with the Eagles should have been used to evaluate his ceiling as an NFL QB.  What do you see his ceiling as?  It’s bottom-tier NFL starter.  Not top 5, not top 10.  Highly unlikely even mid range starter.  He’s a bottom-tier NFL starter.  Without a lot of talent on the roster to win games with him as a complementary piece, the Eagles are a 5-12 team with him as franchise QB — maybe 6-11.  Not in 2021 — that’s his ceiling as long as he’s here. 
 

It’s not even as though he showed he can manage the game and play mistake-free football; he throws INTs, and fumbles the ball all over the place.  That wasn’t because he had no reps and a limited offseason — he makes BAD decisions out there.  He can’t stand in and take a hit to make a play; he should have been pulled immediately against WFT  after skipping the ball 5 yards short of a sure TD to Watkins.  Any NFL QB has to make that throw — I’d bet money Nathan Peterman would have made that throw.  Numerous throws to the intermediate and deep middle of the field were far too late and far too off-target.

I could ramble on further.  Suffice to say he doesn’t have it, and he’s not magically going to get it.

I'm not a Hurts fan and didnt like him in college.  But if he is going to be the starter then let's at least give him a chance.  QBs should always make some kind of improvement from year 1 to year 2.  If he still looks the same as the 4 games he played in this past year then that's different.

1 hour ago, RLC said:

We saw Hurts and Wentz in the same offense with the same personnel and Hurts was demonstrably better.

Explain how he looked better ??  He led the team to points on 2 of 22 second half possessions.  1 being a short field after a turnover.

5 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Just me, I'd rather see Wentz play under a new coach and system than see Hurts play.  There's been "reports" that Sirianni prefers Wentz and wants to keep him.  It's because he's the better QB.  He just needs some fixing.  I'm not saying he's going to be 2017 Wentz again but he can be a good QB.  I don't expect him to play anywhere as bad as he did in 2020.

 

That just comes off as blind hope.  Wentz showed absolutely nothing last season for anyone any reason to think he won't play as bad if not worse than he did in 2020 if he stays on this team.  Maybe if he goes elsewhere but it isn't happening here.  He is not mentally strong.  Howie remaining here and Hurts here openly going for the starting job and getting the WRs on the team to train with him isn't something that Wentz has shown he will be able to handle.  He is going to be as much of a mess as he was last year if the Eagles don't trade him.  

1 minute ago, DeathByEagle said:

Don;t even bother replying to him. Hes like the village idiot of the boards. What ever he reads on twitter he follows. Surprised you would even read his novel long post. Most wouldn't waste their time. 

I really dont like reading long posts but at least try to skim thru quickly.

I find myself typing long posts sometimes and end up cutting them down.  People tend not to read them if they are long posts.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Explain how he looked better ??  He led the team to points on 2 of 22 second half possessions.  1 being a short field after a turnover.

Because he did. TBF, a lot of that is how bad Carson looked.

NO: Eagles sat on the ball in the 2nd half since they were up by 17 points
Ari: Eagles score more points if Goedert doesn't drop the game winning TD
Dal: Bad performance
WSH: Tanked by playing Sudfeld

I'm not a big Hurts fan, but he's not atrocious.

8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Explain how he looked better ??  He led the team to points on 2 of 22 second half possessions.  1 being a short field after a turnover.

 

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

Because he did. TBF, a lot of that is how bad Carson looked.

NO: Eagles sat on the ball in the 2nd half since they were up by 17 points
Ari: Eagles score more points if Goedert doesn't drop the game winning TD
Dal: Bad performance
WSH: Tanked by playing Sudfeld

I'm not a big Hurts fan, but he's not atrocious.

Well you can't get much more detail then that. Im sold. 

4 minutes ago, RLC said:

Because he did. TBF, a lot of that is how bad Carson looked.

NO: Eagles sat on the ball in the 2nd half since they were up by 17 points
Ari: Eagles score more points if Goedert doesn't drop the game winning TD
Dal: Bad performance
WSH: Tanked by playing Sudfeld

I'm not a big Hurts fan, but he's not atrocious.

I don’t think he played atrocious I do think in the second half of games they did not play as well compared to the first half games cause coaches made adjustments. even before the Washington game the Eagles in the second half of games were scoring on average 4.3 points. You guys look at yards like it means something if you get 500 yards those are hallow stats if you don’t score. Great for fantasy football not real football unless you get points  

You can say they score more points of goedert doesn’t drop a touchdown well if the Saints don’t drop a pick six which was thrown right to the defender, the Eagles are tied in that game and potentially lose

11 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Still it’s not just a one year blip. They still aren’t exactly in stellar positioning. They are likely bottom 10 in the league. They are still far behind most of the league. Even with those guys being gone they leave behind dead money and have come count toward the cap I’m guessing they still aren’t close to the middle of the pack. 

I’m not buying what they are trying to spin but I do think they will be ok cap wise after this year, as in they won’t have to make restructures just to get under and they will have money if they want to pursue a guy or two in FA. Besides, being in the top 10 of cap space isn’t necessarily a good thing either. It usually just means you don’t have anyone on the roster or everyone’s on rookie deals and you have no one worth extending. Middle of the pack is what you should aim to be. 

6 minutes ago, RLC said:

Because he did. TBF, a lot of that is how bad Carson looked.

NO: Eagles sat on the ball in the 2nd half since they were up by 17 points
Ari: Eagles score more points if Goedert doesn't drop the game winning TD
Dal: Bad performance
WSH: Tanked by playing Sudfeld

I'm not a big Hurts fan, but he's not atrocious.

even if hurts isnt the guy i would rather have him for year and with a ton of cap space and a new qb in 2022 then having paying wentz 35 million for next 4 years on the bench with very little cap space.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Explain how he looked better ??  He led the team to points on 2 of 22 second half possessions.  1 being a short field after a turnover.

 

Eagles with Wentz (and some assistance from Hurts on some of these drives that resulted in scores): 20 PPG.

Eagles with Hurts: 23.5 PPG

 

Wentz:1.75 TDs per game

Hurts: 2.25 TDs per game

 

Wentz: 218 passing yards per game, 23 rush yards per game.

Hurts: 257 passing yards per game, 68 rush yards per game. 

 

Wentz a 5 year veteran playing in the same offense for the 5th season.  Hurts a 2nd round rookie with no real offseason or preseason who is stepping in late in the season on established bad team.  Hurts is going to take a step in his second year.  Wentz heading into year 6 might just be who he is and who he was in 2020 was one of the worst QBs in the league. 

28 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Current cap situation for the eagles in 2022. They are under it but barely. Even if they make some moves that they can they are at the moment roughly 30 million behind the 31st team on the league in Minnesota. So this blip howie and Lurie keep selling is not a one year blip. 

 

Right now, the Eagles are out of money to pay people.  Eventually, years of horrible drafting will kick in and we'll run out of people to pay.  The symmetry in the end will work it all out.

A post I made a few weeks ago that is relevant for this thread and people acting like Wentz as terrible as he is now would be a better option as QB than Hurts in 2021:

 

Quote

 

Did he flash? Yes.  Did he light the world on fire with great consistency as a rookie?  No.  But look at how he compared to the rookie years of the other home grown QBs of note. 

McNabb - 2-4 record, 49.1%, 948 passing yards, 8 TD passes, 7 interceptions, 313 rushing yards & 0 rushing TDs.

Foles - 1-5 record, 60.8%, 1,699 passing yards, 6 TD passes, 5 interceptions, 42 rushing yards & 1 rushing TD.

Wentz - 7-9 record, 62.4%, 3,782 passing yards, 16 TD passes, 14 interceptions, 150 rushing yards & 2 rushing TDs.

Hurts - 1-3 record, 52%, 1,061 passing yards, 6 TD passes, 4 interceptions, 354 rushing yards & 3 rushing TDs.  

 

We don't know what we have in Hurts in year 2 until we see it.  But the overflowing amount of pessimism and dismissal of any chance of Hurts further developing into a better QB in his 2nd season is just completely unfounded when we look at the context of his rookie season in comparison to those that came before him in this Franchise.  

 

 

•  

Why is no one on team "neither" in the Wentz vs. Hurts debate?  

Hop on in, the bandwagon is empty and the odds are in your favor.

7 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I’m not buying what they are trying to spin but I do think they will be ok cap wise after this year, as in they won’t have to make restructures just to get under and they will have money if they want to pursue a guy or two in FA. Besides, being in the top 10 of cap space isn’t necessarily a good thing either. It usually just means you don’t have anyone on the roster or everyone’s on rookie deals and you have no one worth extending. Middle of the pack is what you should aim to be. 

The problem is even with all those moves they’re still not in the middle of the pack. They’re in the bottom 10 of the league and they only have 37 players signed once you do that. Now they’re probably going to add guys this year so they’ll have more with their draft class and a low/cheap free agents but in any case this a one year blip isn’t true. It’s not nearly as bad in 2022 but it’s not good. You’re still bottom 8-10. That’s not ideal where you want to be. Especially because I assume a lot of those teams are also going to be able to creek cap space. Fortunately for the Eagles they don’t have a bunch of young players who are coming up for second contracts if they’re needed to sign. you have mailata and goedert as FA in 2022. And sanders is up for a new contract at the end of this upcoming season. So that’s also going to eat into some of that cap space they have.

Just now, eagle45 said:

Why is no one on team "neither" in the Wentz vs. Hurts debate?  

Hop on in, the bandwagon is empty and the odds are in your favor.

 

It depends on who drops to #6 at QB.  If it is Fields or Wilson then they need to consider it.  If not then you go and see how big of a step Hurts takes in his second season and then go from there depending on how that turns out.  

A post I made a few weeks ago that is relevant for this thread 

Quote

Hurts stinks 

 

9 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

That just comes off as blind hope.  Wentz showed absolutely nothing last season for anyone any reason to think he won't play as bad if not worse than he did in 2020 if he stays on this team.  Maybe if he goes elsewhere but it isn't happening here.  He is not mentally strong.  Howie remaining here and Hurts here openly going for the starting job and getting the WRs on the team to train with him isn't something that Wentz has shown he will be able to handle.  He is going to be as much of a mess as he was last year if the Eagles don't trade him.  

Its not hope.  It's my opinion based off what I've seen from Hurts thru out his career, college and pro as well as Wentz.

I cant sit here and say Wentz is done based off 1 terrible year when I've seen him play well and really well at that.  QBs can bounce back too you know?  

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The problem is even with all those moves they’re still not in the middle of the pack. They’re in the bottom 10 of the league and they only have 37 players signed once you do that. Now they’re probably going to add guys this year so they’ll have more with their draft class and a low/cheap free agents but in any case this a one year blip isn’t true. It’s not nearly as bad in 2022 but it’s not good. You’re still bottom 8-10. That’s not ideal where you want to be. Especially because I assume a lot of those teams are also going to be able to creek cap space.

While I agree with you, we also have no one to pay.  The team is not at a developmental stage where I'd want them to sign a vet FA anyway.  And with the possible exception of an injury prone #2 TE, I don't even want anyone on the team extended.  

In a very sarcastic and defeatist sort of way, the cap space is meaningless for the next 3 years anyway.  I'm glad Lurie is wasting millions to cover for his boy Howie.  

 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The problem is even with all those moves they’re still not in the middle of the pack. They’re in the bottom 10 of the league and they only have 37 players signed once you do that. Now they’re probably going to add guys this year so they’ll have more with their draft class and a low/cheap free agents but in any case this a one year blip isn’t true. It’s not nearly as bad in 2022 but it’s not good. You’re still bottom 8-10. That’s not ideal where you want to be. Especially because I assume a lot of those teams are also going to be able to creek cap space.

Well you know Lowie, they have to gas light the fan base into everything is roses. The cap needs to go through a rebuild just like the team does.

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Why is no one on team "neither" in the Wentz vs. Hurts debate?  

Hop on in, the bandwagon is empty and the odds are in your favor.

Pick a side and fight to the death you coward. Being Switzerland is not an option. 

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

While I agree with you, we also have no one to pay.  The team is not at a developmental stage where I'd want them to sign a vet FA anyway.  And with the possible exception of an injury prone #2 TE, I don't even want anyone on the team extended.  

In a very sarcastic and defeatist sort of way, the cap space is meaningless for the next 3 years anyway.  I'm glad Lurie is wasting millions to cover for his boy Howie.  

 

I wouldn’t say they have nobody. You still have goedert and mailata Who are free agents at the end of next season. Also Miles Sanders is eligible for a new contract at the end of next year. I wouldn’t re-sign Sanders but I’m guessing the Eagles are. So that’s three guys are going to have to sign. Add on I’m guessing you’re likely going to want to add players into the fold even if you’re in a rebuild who are young and that you think are good fit long-term. Even in 2013 off-season they added long-term pieces during that supposed rebuild. They did the same thing in 2016.  So they’re not gonna just not add guys because you’re in a rebuild. They tend to add guys who are younger who they think they have years with And being at a disadvantage in your cap teams will use that against you for the same player in terms of how their deal is structured 

The only guys I’d want to extend off their rookie deals right now is Goedert, Mailata and Sweat. Sanders only if he’s reasonable. 

23 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

100%.  There is tons of film on his at premier destinations surrounded by the best coaching staffs at that level and the best talent at that level.   Those things may have created a mirage for some, but his short stint with mediocre talent and coaching was not good.  

So like coming off the bench and winning the SEC Championship is a bad look.

Going to Oklahoma and running that offense on the same level as two QBs picked #1 (Murray, Mayfield) is a bad look.

Last year he was in an impossible situation, coming off the bench with an OL in tatters, inexperienced receivers and a HC who was clueless.

Let's see what Sirianni and Johnson can do with him.