So Schefter says that Carson and Doug didn’t speak for 8-10 weeks during the season. How ridiculous is that? I hear that and I go back to my thought earlier this offseason that Wentz bamboozled this city and was a huge locker room problem. 
 

And yes, I’m assuming the two didn’t speak because Wentz was being a dbag.

8 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Yup, no point in delaying the inevitable. We are in a position to draft a QB and start fresh. Let's do it.

Just because they are in position to take a quarterback is a horrible reason to take one.  In 2016, they weren't close to being in position but Howie, in his best moves, made it happen to get to #2.  Carson looked like a franchise changing quarterback at the time too, none of these guys besides Trevor Lawrence look like it.

-Justin Fields is a glorified Jalen Hurts, no thanks

-Trey Lance is a poor man's Cam Newton.  He's an impressive athlete but half of his runs are him trying to bulldoze over LB and d-backs. That style of running won't last in the NFL and if you take away his running, he's just a project quarterback.  I like him as a prospect but no way at 6.

-Zach Wilson looks like he'll be an OK starter in the NFL but a franchise quarterback at 6?  No.

-Mac Jones and Kyle Trask are 2nd round quarterbacks who I think are borderline starter/backups.  Think, AJ McCarron/Andy Dalton

 

The Eagles drafted Jalen Hurts in the 2nd last year and that was the final straw in Carson being an Eagle.  You ran your quarterback out of town with that pick.  You better hitch your freaking wagon to him now to make it worth it.  If they draft another quarterback this year it's just one more piss poor move.  Surround Hurts with the best weapons you can and go with it.  If he fails, we'll be in a position to draft a quarterback again next year.

1 minute ago, Thrive said:

So Schefter says that Carson and Doug didn’t speak for 8-10 weeks during the season. How ridiculous is that? I hear that and I go back to my thought earlier this offseason that Wentz bamboozled this city and was a huge locker room problem. .

Doing my best not to comment on this.

No doom and gloom for me.  Onward we go.  Eagles players get the coaching they have been missing.   The schemes on offense and defense fit the roster rather than making the roster fit the scheme.   Play calling accentuates the players skill set.  Eagles go 11-5 and take the division.  

Hurts is the guy until he isn't and I'm pulling for him to be the guy.  

Reagor gets used properly, and is our punt returner.

The screen game gets attention and the run game doesn't get abandoned.

Build the offensive line.  They have an opportunity to get 2 high quality linemen in the first 3 rounds.  Prioritize the offensive line.  

I prefer they trade back in the first and pick up another 2nd or 3rd round pick.  If they don't and Sewell is gone I like one of Surtain, Chase, or Pitts.  If they trade back I'd like Slater or Farley and try to get Davis from Ohio State in the 2nd.  I'd be happy with Slater/Davis 1-2. Mailata, Slater, Davis is a good, young group to grow with.  Maybe even Dillard in there but he is already 25.  

I'm already getting psyched just thinking of drafting offensive linemen.

17 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

He dupes Lurie pretty well.

I somehow doubt it. Feels like Howie goes to Jeffy for approval on all big money contracts ( FA’s and extensions ). The idea of Lurie being involved in the draft process would be disappointing if true. Seems like the structure of the decision making process is messed up or heads would be rolling left and right but we have no idea what that structure is but Lowie do

Tim McManus: Very likely the Eagles draft a QB at 6 or higher, not particulary sold on Hurts.

Time to get with the program folks, we will draft a QB with the pick #6+

6 minutes ago, RLC said:

Doing my best not to comment on this.

Who cares. It’s a message board!

41 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

does nothing without a franchise QB, except fill a few seats in the stadium and gets some highlights. WIthout a franchise QB,  you have almost zero chances of ever winning a sb. 

 

Sorry to burst your bubble. 

I agree but at this point they have neither offensive weapons or a QB.  The better pick would be drafting a WR early vs. QB and hope that you have enough to be able to draft a QB next season. 

19 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Yeah I could be proven wrong, but Hurts isn't a franchise qb. And I agree, when you dont have one, you need to go get one.

This is why Howie has failed miserably. His QB factory took a franchise qb (on the roster) and the a second rd pick last year, and turned that into NO franchise QB, a backup qb and a 3rd rd pick this year and a conditional 2 next year

That's like turning $1,000,000 in real estate into $1,000 in cash. 

And this is where the Hurts pick is even *worse* now because drafting a QB in the 1st obviously means Hurts has no real chance being that franchise QB. So, in the end Howie will have ruined Wentz by not supporting him, drafting Hurts with a 2nd round pick, then drafting a QB in the 1st round to then having to trade Hurts in a year or two for peanuts. That's even if Howie drafts a QB @ 6. 

Point A: The Eagles MO is that QBs are everything, so #6 is in play.
Point B: Much easier to trade down, or push QBs up, if other teams think the Eagles want a QB.

Either way, this messaging is smart.

4 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Yep.  Thinking more and more that we will use OUR 2022 #1 to trade up this year and hope the conditional 2nd for Wentz turns into a #1.  

One of the national reporters talked about how if Howie sets his sights on Wilson, he will find a way to trade up to #2 and his relationship with Joe will help facilitating that trade. Now if Howie decides on Fields or Lance, I think staying at #6 becomes more likely

3 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

No doom and gloom for me.  Onward we go.  Eagles players get the coaching they have been missing.   The schemes on offense and defense fit the roster rather than making the roster fit the scheme.   Play calling accentuates the players skill set.  Eagles go 11-5 and take the division.  

Hurts is the guy until he isn't and I'm pulling for him to be the guy.  

Reagor gets used properly, and is our punt returner.

The screen game gets attention and the run game doesn't get abandoned.

Build the offensive line.  They have an opportunity to get 2 high quality linemen in the first 3 rounds.  Prioritize the offensive line.  

I prefer they trade back in the first and pick up another 2nd or 3rd round pick.  If they don't and Sewell is gone I like one of Surtain, Chase, or Pitts.  If they trade back I'd like Slater or Farley and try to get Davis from Ohio State in the 2nd.  I'd be happy with Slater/Davis 1-2. Mailata, Slater, Davis is a good, young group to grow with.  Maybe even Dillard in there but he is already 25.  

I'm already getting psyched just thinking of drafting offensive linemen.

I said this yesterday.  It's time to support Hurts.  It's not his fault the Eagles brought him into this mess.  He was drafted, was he not supposed to come in and compete?  He's said and done all the right things, is a very likeable guy and honestly has won everywhere he's been.  The Eagles need to surround him with talent (like they should have done for Carson) and then keep to Siri's word and build the offense and call plays around your players strengths.

I disagree about the o-line though.  I don't think it's in as bad shape as we think.  The young guys who had to play last year will only benefit from being thrown into the fire.  If Herbig can get in shape he's going to be a solid lineman in the NFL.  If Driscoll can add 15-20 lbs he will be a very solid lineman as well.  I view Driscoll as a John Welbourn kind of player.  

Mailata, Herbig, Seumalo, Driscoll and Lane is a line I would be confident in.  That's assuming Kelce retires and Brooks can be traded.  Even if all the vets come back.

Mailata, Seumalo, Kelce, Brooks, Johnson is a very good line.  Herbig, Driscoll, Dillard, Opeta, Toth are all being coached up by Stoutland and have now played a lot (with the exception of Dillard).

Dillard is the wild card.  What can he become?  

The offensive weapons are the bigger concern.  Ertz is gone so you have DG and nothing (although intriguing options in Butler and Jackson).  Reagor, Watkins, Hightower, Ward, JJAW, Fulgham aren't scaring any defenses yet.  They've all shown potential but I think realistically, Reagor, Watkins and Fulgham are the guys you want to build around.

Miles Sanders is often hurt and Boston Scott is JAG.  I wouldn't be made at Travis Etienne or Najee Harris with their 2nd round pick.  The extra 3rd makes drafting a running back higher easier to swallow.

The more I hear that the Eagles are going to draft a QB at 6, the less likely I think the Eagles draft a QB at 6.

2 minutes ago, Solomon said:

And this is where the Hurts pick is even *worse* now because drafting a QB in the 1st obviously means Hurts has no real chance being that franchise QB. So, in the end Howie will have ruined Wentz by not supporting him, drafting Hurts with a 2nd round pick, then drafting a QB in the 1st round to then having to trade Hurts in a year or two for peanuts. That's even if Howie drafts a QB @ 6. 

One thing is for sure, Howie is comfortable enough in his job to move on from sunk costs. He just traded a guy he moved Heaven and Earth to go get, and in the process took on the biggest dead cap hit in the history of the sport without breaking a sweat. Moving on from a 2nd rd pick after a year is easy money for him.

9 minutes ago, Solomon said:

And this is where the Hurts pick is even *worse* now because drafting a QB in the 1st obviously means Hurts has no real chance being that franchise QB. So, in the end Howie will have ruined Wentz by not supporting him, drafting Hurts with a 2nd round pick, then drafting a QB in the 1st round to then having to trade Hurts in a year or two for peanuts. That's even if Howie drafts a QB @ 6. 

I just posted something similar and you're absolutely right.  Picking a quarterback says that you aren't sold on Jalen Hurts and by drafting him you pushed Carson out the door.  It's maddening to think about.

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

So you believe that their egos will allow them to do the same thing 2 years in a row at QB?

Unequivocally, YES.  There are many reasons why they will do this...  besides the transition from NFL football team trying to compete for championships to QB Factory.

The current Lowie programming will enable them to justify almost any move for a QB, including a trade up mortgaging future resources.  

Also, don't dismiss how badly Lowie will want to change the narrative on Wentz, Hurts and the train wreck they have caused here.  If they take one of the two top receivers, it will only continue that discussion.  "Wow, wonder what Wentz would have done with this.... looks like Hurts doesn't have the skill set to get this guy the ball... etc. etc."  If (when) they take a Justin Fields, they will duck or block and transition every question (even the "what's different this time") into how excited they are to have a new guy.

49 minutes ago, Solomon said:

At this point, I'm all for taking a QB at 6. You either have a QB or you don't and the Eagles don't have a QB right now. Not slamming Hurts here, we just don't know if he can be the guy or not. I'm leaning not, personally. 

 

45 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Yup, no point in delaying the inevitable. We are in a position to draft a QB and start fresh. Let's do it.

I'm ok with taking one if there is someone they really really like, but the one thing they need to avoid is taking a QB because they think they need one. If they don't like these guys, ride it out with Hurts, or find a cheap veteran to compete with Hurts and try again next year. Taking a QB because you feel obligated will see us back here in a few years.

Here's another thought.

The Eagles have to know that there's a huge fanbase that loves Carson Wentz.  I'm not just talking Wentz Washers but all of the kids that looked up to him and people who really enjoyed cheering for what looks like a wholesome guy.  It's much easier to cheer for him than it is a guy like Jameis Winston and his checkered past and embarrassing "eating W's thing.

What's it going to take for those fans to hop on board with Jalen Hurts?  Have the Eagles already set him up to fail in the city?  Reading column after column today that still claims that drafting Hurts was a huge mistake and a big part of Eagles turmoil.  

Is that the way we want our quarterback to start his career?  Can he overcome all of that mess and truly win this city over or is there always going to be this dark cloud that bringing him in killed the "what could have been with Carson".  

The only way I'm taking a quarterback at 6 or trading up to take one is if they trade Hurts too.  

12 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I said this yesterday.  It's time to support Hurts.  It's not his fault the Eagles brought him into this mess.  He was drafted, was he not supposed to come in and compete?  He's said and done all the right things, is a very likeable guy and honestly has won everywhere he's been.  The Eagles need to surround him with talent (like they should have done for Carson) and then keep to Siri's word and build the offense and call plays around your players strengths.

I disagree about the o-line though.  I don't think it's in as bad shape as we think.  The young guys who had to play last year will only benefit from being thrown into the fire.  If Herbig can get in shape he's going to be a solid lineman in the NFL.  If Driscoll can add 15-20 lbs he will be a very solid lineman as well.  I view Driscoll as a John Welbourn kind of player.  

Mailata, Herbig, Seumalo, Driscoll and Lane is a line I would be confident in.  That's assuming Kelce retires and Brooks can be traded.  Even if all the vets come back.

Mailata, Seumalo, Kelce, Brooks, Johnson is a very good line.  Herbig, Driscoll, Dillard, Opeta, Toth are all being coached up by Stoutland and have now played a lot (with the exception of Dillard).

Dillard is the wild card.  What can he become?  

The offensive weapons are the bigger concern.  Ertz is gone so you have DG and nothing (although intriguing options in Butler and Jackson).  Reagor, Watkins, Hightower, Ward, JJAW, Fulgham aren't scaring any defenses yet.  They've all shown potential but I think realistically, Reagor, Watkins and Fulgham are the guys you want to build around.

Miles Sanders is often hurt and Boston Scott is JAG.  I wouldn't be made at Travis Etienne or Najee Harris with their 2nd round pick.  The extra 3rd makes drafting a running back higher easier to swallow.

Yeah, I'm not sold on the line.  Herbig lopks like a #7-8.  Driscoll looks like #6 which is very important.   Brooks and Johnson are at the end of their careers.  But this is the fun of discussion.   I want better offensive skill players but I believe a great line makes every body better, great skill players don't make the line better.  Build in/out.  We have a chance to do it now.  I hope we do.  If Sewell is available at 6 and we don't take him then I will cry bitterly in my soup.  If he isn't a.d we take Chase or Surtain or Pitts I won't ****. 

Listening to podcasts from Philly media and a resounding talking point is that the Eagles miscalculated how Carson would handle drafting a QB in the second round.

Folks just act like the media just have all the insights and the FO (although certainly clownish in behavior) are grossly incompetent. Certainly the FO understood that Carson very well could react negatively to the drafting of Hurts. Even us TATERs understood this; we all saw how he got twisted in pretzels over Foles. 
 

To me, the more telling point is that the Eagles were aware that Carson could likely react negatively to getting Hurts and went ahead and drafted him anyways.

30 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Just because they are in position to take a quarterback is a horrible reason to take one.  In 2016, they weren't close to being in position but Howie, in his best moves, made it happen to get to #2.  Carson looked like a franchise changing quarterback at the time too, none of these guys besides Trevor Lawrence look like it.

-Justin Fields is a glorified Jalen Hurts, no thanks

-Trey Lance is a poor man's Cam Newton.  He's an impressive athlete but half of his runs are him trying to bulldoze over LB and d-backs. That style of running won't last in the NFL and if you take away his running, he's just a project quarterback.  I like him as a prospect but no way at 6.

-Zach Wilson looks like he'll be an OK starter in the NFL but a franchise quarterback at 6?  No.

-Mac Jones and Kyle Trask are 2nd round quarterbacks who I think are borderline starter/backups.  Think, AJ McCarron/Andy Dalton

 

The Eagles drafted Jalen Hurts in the 2nd last year and that was the final straw in Carson being an Eagle.  You ran your quarterback out of town with that pick.  You better hitch your freaking wagon to him now to make it worth it.  If they draft another quarterback this year it's just one more piss poor move.  Surround Hurts with the best weapons you can and go with it.  If he fails, we'll be in a position to draft a quarterback again next year.

They do not understand this.  They also don't understand (despite the lip service) the rarity of actually finding a franchise quarterback, and the total and complete commitment REQUIRED when you do find one.  They blew the entire thing up.  In no way do I think or expect that they will "commit" to Hurts, and I doubt they view him as anything close to what they thought they had in Carson.

I don't watch much college FB anymore other than the big games and when possible my alma mater, but from what I have seen I mostly agree with your assessments of the prospects.  Unfortunately, one of them will be an Eagle this year, so hopefully we are wrong.

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

What's it going to take for those fans to hop on board with Jalen Hurts?  Have the Eagles already set him up to fail in the city?  Reading column after column today that still claims that drafting Hurts was a huge mistake and a big part of Eagles turmoil.  

It takes wins. All that matters to fans. If he wins, people will come around in no time. 

The hero worship in this thread continues to be mind boggling. Can't win a Super Bowl without a franchise QB? Carson has ZERO playoff wins.

2017 Carson is an unreasonable benchmark for him. The 3rd/RZ efficiency was historic, and anecdotally I remember a lot of his TDs coming off short fields.

So if 2018/19 Carson is the real Carson, that guy is not winning you a Super Bowl, and he sure as hell isn't at $30 million a season. Give me a break.

3 minutes ago, Thrive said:

Listening to podcasts from Philly media and a resounding talking point is that the Eagles miscalculated how Carson would handle drafting a QB in the second round.

Folks just act like the media just have all the insights and the FO (although certainly clownish in behavior) are grossly incompetent. Certainly the FO understood that Carson very well could react negatively to the drafting of Hurts. Even us TATERs understood this; we all saw how he got twisted in pretzels over Foles. 
 

To me, the more telling point is that the Eagles were aware that Carson could likely react negatively to getting Hurts and went ahead and drafted him anyways.

Maybe the front office was more concerned with his injury history, than with his insecurities.

In isolation, it's not such a bad trade...maybe even a good one.  A QB who was horrible last year, now wants out, is on a mega-deal, and we get a 3rd and a possible 1st.  (Almost certainly a 1st if he plays well and often enough to make us miss him in any way).

It's just a tough pill to swallow because of the closure of it all...the final realization of how horribly things have deteriorated: a franchise QB with a massive draft investment gone for conditional picks in a future draft, the largest dead cap hit in NFL history, a franchise left with 0 talent, 0 direction, and 0 prospects at QB (no offense to Hurts).  A GM so disgraced yet so secure in his footing that he could actually undo so much for so little while the franchise pretends everything is fine.

 

The NFL is built differently than it was 30-40 years ago.  So for the old timers who say that we don't know what bad is, we are spoiled by the Eagles...that doesn't entirely apply.  In 2021 with the parity and salary cap built into the league, this is about as badly as you can nose dive a team into the ground.  Sure, there are the Jets/Buffalo/Cleveland playoff droughts that we have not (and hopefully/probably will not) endure...but again, this is as acutely bad mismanagement as it gets.