2 hours ago, justrelax said:

There have been a lot, a lot, of SB-winning QBs who were not elite. Brady and Montana skew the list. Nick Foles? Jim Plunkett? Peyton and Eli Manning? Yes, Peyton was once elite but he was on the downward slide when he won his two. There were a lot of game managers who won as well. You can win if you have the better team.

It is a team sport.  And you win at the LOS. Always has been the case since the game was invented. 

8 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Hate having to go back and re-evaluate QBs for the draft, but when Jalen Hurts is the current starter — a draft evaluation on QBs is needed.  Went back and reviewed film and stats for Fields, Wilson, and Lance.  I’m operating on the assumption Lawrence goes #1 to JAX until I get an indication otherwise:

Size — Lance 6’3 220, Fields 6’3 220, Wilson 6’3 210

Physical strength — Lance, Fields, Wilson.  Wilson looks more slight than the other two

Arm Strength — Wilson, Lance, Fields.  Wilson by a lot — great NFL-ready arm

Foot speed/agility — Lance, Fields, Wilson.  They’re all mobile, but Lance has superior mobility (not to the level of Lamar or Kyler, though)

Polish — Fields, Wilson, Lance.  Fields has three years of power-five experience; no surprise.  Wilson actually has more collegiate throws over the three years, though

Accuracy — Fields 68.4, Wilson 67.6, Lance 67.0.  Wilson was 73.5% in 2020, though

 

Overall, I came away quite a bit more impressed with Wilson than I was the first time a few months ago, and slightly more impressed with Fields than I was before.  I still believe both Wilson and Lance are better pro prospects than Fields, though.  I still come away bothered by how slowly Fields goes through his progressions, and his inconsistency.

I would rate them Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, Fields.  Lawrence will go #1, I believe Wilson will go #2, Fields will go either #4 or #5 (by trade up), and Lance somewhere around #10

I have been binging a lot of reports as well. Curious for your thoughts on a couple of things I repeatedly noticed.

Lance: Footwork is inconsistent as he resets his feet unnecessarily, and can sometimes be hesitant to pull the trigger

Fields: Very slow at getting off the initial read

Wilson: Poor throwing mechanics, his top flight arm masks this to a degree, but won't at the pro level.

Just now, Desertbirds said:

If Lurie were to move the Eagles out of Philly, would you then still support the team?

I mean it would depend where wouldn't it? If it's let's say south Jersey then no. Maybe if it's like Wilmington.  

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

They picked a WR, albeit one I liked, who had one of the worst years of any WR picked in the first 4 rounds.

Their 2nd round pick...well...that set off an interesting chain of events.  If we draft a QB in round 1, that makes the decision even more laughable.

The 3rd round LB was absolutely pathetic in game action.  I like athleticism at DE and WR....downhill explosion positions.  LB is read and react.  So they got a track athlete who has no ability to tackle, cover, or play football.  He was truly awful.

4th Wallace: Almost never played despite little talent in front of him.

4th Driscoll: interesting ability, got hurt literally every time he set foot on the field for extended action.

5th Hightower: downfield ability, clear deer in headlights not ready to play in the NFL

6th Bradley: Umm, at least we didn't draft him in the 3rd round like Taylor?

6th Watkins: Showed some nice speed, Eagles refused to use him despite the garbage in front of him.

6 Prince: cut

7 Toohill: cut

If that's a solid draft after 1 year, what is bad?  The only way to get worse are arrests, DUIs, and domestic assault.

I understand what you are saying, but you are expecting way too much out of late round pics, and you are not giving them time to develop. Quez is a future role player, I will take that in the 6th. Bradley flashed athleticism and admittedly looked more comfortable in the position than Taylor = Depth. Driscoll, solid. Tenga W, hey we cant help that we have good depth at the tackle position, he is a high upside guy (exactly what you want in late rounds). And tbh I dont know what to think about Wallace, I really like his mentality but I am not sure if he is much of a player. 

4 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I read Wilson might have some character concerns. Someone comped him to Manziel in that area 

Waltetfootball started that crap ,saying he is s spoiled , entitled rich kid , because his family owns JetBlue...it was debunked by his coaches and teammates,  they said he doesnt behave like that.

My question was the result of a thought experiment.

Suppose things go completely to hell next year.

The fans would be quite angry.

The media, hoping to capitalize of the fans' discontent, would stoke the flames and turn their ire towards Lurie.

Lurie seems to be all about his image.

He may react to the negative attention by taking his ball and going home.

Just now, Original Sin said:

Waltetfootball started that crap ,saying he is s spoiled , entitled rich kid , because his family owns JetBlue...it was debunked by his coaches and teammates,  they said he doesnt behave like that.

Ah. Good to know, thanks. I would have dismissed it before posting if I knew it came from there.

13 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I have a feeling Howie will field 22 starters for this season, mostly young cheap players we have drafted.  I guess all the drafts are looking up now.

No team has more than a dozen "starters" if by that you mean guys who are close to pro bowl level.

A roster has to have at least 30 players who are solid starters or top reserves. We saw that when we had to go deeper than Mailata, Driscoll and Herbig on the OL.

So while someone like Barnett may be a bit of a disappointment at #14, he's still a solid starter, Sweat was a solid reserve, question is will he become more than a rotational DE.

Maddox is a solid reserve, when forced to start on the outside, he showed his limitations, as a nickel CB he's fine.

If Taylor for example, at #103, ends up a 4th LB and solid ST player, that's good value at that point n the draft. Most players taken after #100 never approach starter status.

Mills is on the cusp, if Gannon installs something similar to Indy's defense, he's got a good chance to move back to CB, Douglas would have had a good chance to start under this scheme, where CBs get deep help on a regular basis.

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I mean it would depend where wouldn't it? If it's let's say south Jersey then no. Maybe if it's like Wilmington.  

I was thinking more like St. Louis.

19 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

I would take a 5th for Ertz. If its player for player I could see something like...

Hawks- Quandre Diggs, Safety (motivated to trade because he is a cap hit, despite great production)

Rams- Brian Allen, Center (25 year old former starter who was supplanted during rehab from an injury)

Chargers- Denzel Perryman, Linebacker (I always thought Perryman was solid player, he has become a rotational guy since the chargers revamped their LB unit , could be transition period starter)

 

I'd absolutely take a 5th for Ertz. I've been thinking they will wind up cutting him honestly. Hope I'm wrong, seems like there is a market.

I'd rather a pick than a player, but I'd rather have something than nothing.

23 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

How early do people start drinking in here? 

The earliest when I'm in the states is noon. When I'm on vacation in the Caribbean 10 am. 

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

No team has more than a dozen "starters" if by that you mean guys who are close to pro bowl level.

A roster has to have at least 30 players who are solid starters or top reserves. We saw that when we had to go deeper than Mailata, Driscoll and Herbig on the OL.

So while someone like Barnett may be a bit of a disappointment at #14, he's still a solid starter, Sweat was a solid reserve, question is will he become more than a rotational DE.

Maddox is a solid reserve, when forced to start on the outside, he showed his limitations, as a nickel CB he's fine.

If Taylor for example, at #103, ends up a 4th LB and solid ST player, that's good value at that point n the draft. Most players taken after #100 never approach starter status.

Mills is on the cusp, if Gannon installs something similar to Indy's defense, he's got a good chance to move back to CB, Douglas would have had a good chance to start under this scheme, where CBs get deep help on a regular basis.

If only we traded up to 97 to draft davion Taylor he would’ve had a better chance at approaching starter status. Those 6 picks are going to be the difference. 

4 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

I have been binging a lot of reports as well. Curious for your thoughts on a couple of things I repeatedly noticed.

Lance: Footwork is inconsistent as he resets his feet unnecessarily, and can sometimes be hesitant to pull the trigger

Fields: Very slow at getting off the initial read

Wilson: Poor throwing mechanics, his top flight arm masks this to a degree, but won't at the pro level.

I would say all of these concerns are 100% accurate.

Lance needs polish and at least one year with a clipboard before being asked to start in the NFL — but there is a very high upside with his mix of mobility and arm strength 

Fields needs to have a really good OL in front of him.  He is way too slow going through progressions and will need an extra second of protection 

Wilson has suspect mechanics — I hate his footwork.  He looks to me like another Josh Allen, only not as big and strong.  He will need to be somewhere with a solid QB coach.  His arm is elite, though.  Could be Mahomes-Rodgers level when he matures.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Ah. Good to know, thanks. I would have dismissed it before posting if I knew it came from there.

He is my favorite QB , but it's hard to land QBs in the top 10, the majority bust. I think Mac Jones could end up the best QB of the bunch , and can be had much later , I would take a shot on Kelly Mond too ,probably 3rd rd ,maybe 2nd.

Remember guys, it could be always be worse.

1 minute ago, RLC said:

Remember guys, it could be always be worse.

and if it does, I am sure e45 will be there to let us know.....

9 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

They picked a WR, albeit one I liked, who had one of the worst years of any WR picked in the first 4 rounds.

Their 2nd round pick...well...that set off an interesting chain of events.  If we draft a QB in round 1, that makes the decision even more laughable.

The 3rd round LB was absolutely pathetic in game action.  I like athleticism at DE and WR....downhill explosion positions.  LB is read and react.  So they got a track athlete who has no ability to tackle, cover, or play football.  He was truly awful.

4th Wallace: Almost never played despite little talent in front of him.

4th Driscoll: interesting ability, got hurt literally every time he set foot on the field for extended action.

5th Hightower: downfield ability, clear deer in headlights not ready to play in the NFL

6th Bradley: Umm, at least we didn't draft him in the 3rd round like Taylor?

6th Watkins: Showed some nice speed, Eagles refused to use him despite the garbage in front of him.

6 Prince: cut

7 Toohill: cut

If that's a solid draft after 1 year, what is bad?  The only way to get worse are arrests, DUIs, and domestic assault.

In fairness, I think Taylor did play some on STs.  He had about 40% of the snaps.   He had less snaps on defense than Bradley did and that's pathetic.    Wallace ended up playing a fair amount the last 4 games and had 18% of the defensive snap count.  It's not great but it wasn't awful and it's unclear how much of the low snap count was on Schwartz wanting to play Mills. He did get more reps as the season wore on and I think he's going to have a chance to start given that McLeod and Mills are likely gone.   

Hightower looked like Greg Lewis with bad hands to me.  I'm not sure what he is going forward. He did show speed enough to get open at times.  I have no idea why Watkins got less snaps than Hightower.  He looked to be more talented.  It's not like he was behind all time productive players. 

12 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

My question was the result of a thought experiment.

Suppose things go completely to hell next year.

The fans would be quite angry.

The media, hoping to capitalize of the fans' discontent, would stoke the flames and turn their ire towards Lurie.

Lurie seems to be all about his image.

He may react to the negative attention by taking his ball and going home.

Suppose? I expect it.

This has been such a mess. I hope someone does a tell all book lol

36 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

Is this in regards to the report that Wentz and Doug supposedly didn't speak for 10 weeks or something else? It's difficult to keep track of everything lol

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

 

Hightower looked like Greg Lewis with bad hands to me.  I'm not sure what he is going forward. He did show speed enough to get open at times.  I have no idea why Watkins got less snaps than Hightower.  He looked to be more talented.  It's not like he was behind all time productive players. 

I was disappointed when we picked Hightower, I wanted Watkins. Of course, when we picked him a few picks later I felt sure he would outshine Hightower and get more meaningful snaps during the season. They both look like role players, but only one of them actually looks like a receiver. Baffles me as well.

23 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

There was no possible trade-up for Lamb, unless you wanted Howie to give away picks to get to #12.  SF and TB traded with each other for 13 and 14, DEN needed WR at #15 and took Jeudy, and ATL needed CB at #16 and took Terrell.  All of those picks were locked in.

The "reports" were that all it would have taken was the Eagles 1st and pick 53.  CeeDee Lamb was the cream of the crop last year.  

1 hour ago, Saltpeter said:

Some smoke on the Ertz front. Both LA teams and the Seahawks reportedly have interest. What's the upside there in terms of compensation? A 5th? 

Maybe a fourth. He is under contract for two years and not a good TE draft. 

4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I would say all of these concerns are 100% accurate.

Lance needs polish and at least one year with a clipboard before being asked to start in the NFL — but there is a very high upside with his mix of mobility and arm strength 

Fields needs to have a really good OL in front of him.  He is way too slow going through progressions and will need an extra second of protection 

Wilson has suspect mechanics — I hate his footwork.  He looks to me like another Josh Allen, only not as big and strong.  He will need to be somewhere with a solid QB coach.  His arm is elite, though.  Could be Mahomes-Rodgers level when he matures.

Why do people focus on arm strength - Wentz should teach you how important intangibles are for QBs.

43 year old Brady doesn't have nearly the arm strength of any of these young QBs, but took a struggling TB franchise to a SB victory. Rodgers fell in the draft b/c of questions about his arm strength. Brees has never had better than average arm strength. Indy scored 450 points last year with Rivers with below average arm strength.

As long as a QB has "enough" arm strength to make most NFL throws (how often does a QB throw a deep out?), what's between his ears is far more important than how hard he throws a ball - Jeff George probably had the best arm in the last 20 to 30 years, tremendous strength and accuracy, and a 10 cent head.

So if I'm looking at drafting a QB, I'm far more concerned with his football IQ and leadership abilities than whether he's got a good v great arm. A great arm is like athleticism, it allows you to compensate to some extent for average football IQ, if you can't read defenses and anticipate WRs coming open, it allows you to throw a ball through small windows. Same way being able to scramble and run allows you to buy time when you miss seeing an open WR. Conversely, a smart QB can be highly effective with an average arm, throwing receivers open.

40 minutes ago, austinfan said:

That was after the 2013 season. Wasn't that when Chip wrestled control from Howie?

 

I think it was indeed reported that Chip was behind the decision, but the ownership allowed this.

You don't sit back and allow pro bowl players, in their primes, signed to reasonable (i.e. in value range and affordable) money.   Can't be allowed.  Furthermore, you do not enable, facilitate, promote, or even "look the other way" when your team's front office leaks fake, derogatory and potentially defamatory stories to help sway fan opinion on an unpopular decision.

I think most fans know, not every move will work out.  We get it.  Win some, lose some.  Make the best decisions you can with the information at hand.  Hire the best people.  Embrace technology, but implement it carefully and considerately.  Etc.

We just don't want the stupid decisions anymore.  We are ok with "innovative," "aggressive" at times... sure.  How about just stop doing things that are so dumb that TATErs can see it right away?  You have a probowl player in his prime.  You don't outright cut him mid contract.  You have, at long last, a franchise QB, whom you have just signed to a record contract, but you also have an aging team and many needs.  You don't draft another quarterback in the second round.  You can look back and even bad teams like the Browns, Jaguars, Lions etc. don't do things like this.

We also want to be great at drafting.  At least good.... good or great.  Occasional bad draft?  OK.  Multiple bad drafts?  Draft decision that were known to be bad at the time?  Repeating the same mistakes?  We want the team to do what is right and turn over the leadership.  Hold someone accountable for performance, please, in what is the most important function of the team and predictor of future success.  

I realize I'm talking out of turn here, speaking for anyone else but myself, but these views are shared by my own friends who support the team.  Not sure how every poster here thinks about it... but I'm hoping you might see why there is no support anymore for the current personnel leadership structure we have, and why people struggle to understand why you have such strong continued support for it.  We have to want better than what they have done.  There must be a higher standard than this.

27 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

If Lurie were to move the Eagles out of Philly, would you then still support the team?

That's an interesting question... and one that I considered long ago, as a kid.   There were rumors of Leonard Tose taking the team to Phoenix to help with his debt issues... I decided then and there that if they left, I would never root for them again.  I hate teams that leave, because doing so is just a slap in the face to the faithful fans.   (A team that has no fans and can't support itself, is different...)  But, the Eagles were always supported and the only reason that he was in money troubles was his own alcohol and gambling addictions.  Norman Braman then bought the team, and kept them here and right after that the St. Louis Cardinals left for Phoenix.   Braman was absolutely awful, but at least the team stayed.   Lurie bought them about a decade later, and things turned around.   Lurie is better than Braman.  But, recently, he's gone far too much along the lines of a Jerry Jones, though he'd never admit it.  If Lurie moved the team out of the Greater Philadelphia area, they would be public enemy number 1 to me.  That's betrayal, and they would have no loyalty from me.  

 

It's one of the reasons that I hate the Baltimore Ravens and all things Art Modell.   He ripped that franchise away from a loyal fan base, because he wasn't able to extort the city for a new stadium, and wouldn't put up his own money for it.  I was so proud of that fanbase for suing the NFL over it to maintain their history, name, logo, etc.