41 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Name all the coaches Doug brought in from outside the organization the past few years.

Burke 2019, Manuel 2020 (replaced Udlin who went to Detroit as DC), Morehead 2020.

Brewster - 2018.  Groh - 2017.   (I forgot Walch - 2019).

They also didn't need to hire that many coaches, as they only lost a handful...  Reich, DeFilippo, and Undlin.   The rest were fired/not retained.   But, don't let the actual facts get in the way of your bashing the latest fall guy for Howie.  Keep propping him up.

4 hours ago, bpac55 said:

I said this yesterday.  It's time to support Hurts.  It's not his fault the Eagles brought him into this mess.  He was drafted, was he not supposed to come in and compete?  He's said and done all the right things, is a very likeable guy and honestly has won everywhere he's been.  The Eagles need to surround him with talent (like they should have done for Carson) and then keep to Siri's word and build the offense and call plays around your players strengths.

I disagree about the o-line though.  I don't think it's in as bad shape as we think.  The young guys who had to play last year will only benefit from being thrown into the fire.  If Herbig can get in shape he's going to be a solid lineman in the NFL.  If Driscoll can add 15-20 lbs he will be a very solid lineman as well.  I view Driscoll as a John Welbourn kind of player.  

Mailata, Herbig, Seumalo, Driscoll and Lane is a line I would be confident in.  That's assuming Kelce retires and Brooks can be traded.  Even if all the vets come back.

Mailata, Seumalo, Kelce, Brooks, Johnson is a very good line.  Herbig, Driscoll, Dillard, Opeta, Toth are all being coached up by Stoutland and have now played a lot (with the exception of Dillard).

Dillard is the wild card.  What can he become?  

The offensive weapons are the bigger concern.  Ertz is gone so you have DG and nothing (although intriguing options in Butler and Jackson).  Reagor, Watkins, Hightower, Ward, JJAW, Fulgham aren't scaring any defenses yet.  They've all shown potential but I think realistically, Reagor, Watkins and Fulgham are the guys you want to build around.

Miles Sanders is often hurt and Boston Scott is JAG.  I wouldn't be made at Travis Etienne or Najee Harris with their 2nd round pick.  The extra 3rd makes drafting a running back higher easier to swallow.

Kelce, Brooks and Lane are some big shoes to fill over the next 3 years if you want a top 5 OL like I think we need, got to get at least one of their replacements this year. Suppose to be a deep draft in this department. RB, have you checked out the NCU guys ? Williams is 2nd round worthy and Carter kind of reminds me of Westbrook

35 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Keep spinning it anyway you want. They knew they needed a rebuild then and decided winning a bad division was the better play after the pandemic hit. All while knowing a rebuild was coming giving up picks they needed for the future long term success   

lol few rookies contribute as rookies meanwhile the eagles were relying on a injury prone DeSean, reagor, Hightower, ward, Watkins and JJAW heading into week 1. So 1/2 of their wide receiving corps was rookies. 

They needed a rebuild... what better way to do it than to give away draft picks and cap space for a CB that would be long past his prime by the time they were ready to contend again?    It's sheer genius!

12 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I would say all of these concerns are 100% accurate.

Lance needs polish and at least one year with a clipboard before being asked to start in the NFL — but there is a very high upside with his mix of mobility and arm strength 

Fields needs to have a really good OL in front of him.  He is way too slow going through progressions and will need an extra second of protection 

Wilson has suspect mechanics — I hate his footwork.  He looks to me like another Josh Allen, only not as big and strong.  He will need to be somewhere with a solid QB coach.  His arm is elite, though.  Could be Mahomes-Rodgers level when he matures.

A lot of the concerns about Wilson are similar to the concerns about Justin Hebert last year.  I think his footwork doesn't seem like Allen's who just doesn't seem to move his lower body at all.  It's more like he's too reliant on his arm strength and doesn't throw with anticipation.  

13 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

This has been such a mess. I hope someone does a tell all book lol

Is this in regards to the report that Wentz and Doug supposedly didn't speak for 10 weeks or something else? It's difficult to keep track of everything lol

Yes

36 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

wow tough question. would never happen tho

1985... it almost happened.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

They needed a rebuild... what better way to do it than to give away draft picks and cap space for a CB that would be long past his prime by the time they were ready to contend again?    It's sheer genius!

Howie and Jeff right now

 

28 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

My question was the result of a thought experiment.

Suppose things go completely to hell next year.

The fans would be quite angry.

The media, hoping to capitalize of the fans' discontent, would stoke the flames and turn their ire towards Lurie.

Lurie seems to be all about his image.

He may react to the negative attention by taking his ball and going home.

That didn't do much for Art Modell's image.   Sure, beloved in Baltimore, but could never step foot anywhere near Cleveland ever again.

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around what must have been discussed between the "brain trust" and Sirianni about the QB position. I seriously doubt there was mutual agreement about getting rid of both QB's.....what new coach would sign up for that? I am guessing there was discussion about moving on from Wentz...again...what new coach would agree to joining the team without some input and knowledge about Wentz's departure?

 

I am going to guess the removal of Wentz was on the table when Sirianni was hired, but I would also guess that Plan B would also have been discussed. They need a new QB to compete with Hurts or so I would assume. Was plan B to draft a QB this year? Who knows....there certainly is enough room for speculation on this...the possibility of drafting a round #2 QB followed by a Round #1 in consecutive years ...what a  mess? Can't wait to see how this plays out....

40 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

They picked a WR, albeit one I liked, who had one of the worst years of any WR picked in the first 4 rounds.

Their 2nd round pick...well...that set off an interesting chain of events.  If we draft a QB in round 1, that makes the decision even more laughable.

The 3rd round LB was absolutely pathetic in game action.  I like athleticism at DE and WR....downhill explosion positions.  LB is read and react.  So they got a track athlete who has no ability to tackle, cover, or play football.  He was truly awful.

4th Wallace: Almost never played despite little talent in front of him.

4th Driscoll: interesting ability, got hurt literally every time he set foot on the field for extended action.

5th Hightower: downfield ability, clear deer in headlights not ready to play in the NFL

6th Bradley: Umm, at least we didn't draft him in the 3rd round like Taylor?

6th Watkins: Showed some nice speed, Eagles refused to use him despite the garbage in front of him.

6 Prince: cut

7 Toohill: cut

If that's a solid draft after 1 year, what is bad?  The only way to get worse are arrests, DUIs, and domestic assault.

This is a great description of 2020 draft.  Typed something similar but not as in depth.  Bad draft.

5 minutes ago, The guy in France said:

Kelce, Brooks and Lane are some big shoes to fill over the next 3 years if you want a top 5 OL like I think we need, got to get at least one of their replacements this year. Suppose to be a deep draft in this department. RB, have you checked out the NCU guys ? Williams is 2nd round worthy and Carter kind of reminds me of Westbrook

I love the UNC running backs.  Super talented.  Like most drafts this draft will be full of position runs.  

I think early 2nd we're going to see a lot of good linebackers go.  RB will interesting to see when they start flying off the board.  

7 minutes ago, John_C said:

I think it was indeed reported that Chip was behind the decision, but the ownership allowed this.

You don't sit back and allow pro bowl players, in their primes, signed to reasonable (i.e. in value range and affordable) money.   Can't be allowed.  Furthermore, you do not enable, facilitate, promote, or even "look the other way" when your team's front office leaks fake, derogatory and potentially defamatory stories to help sway fan opinion on an unpopular decision.

I think most fans know, not every move will work out.  We get it.  Win some, lose some.  Make the best decisions you can with the information at hand.  Hire the best people.  Embrace technology, but implement it carefully and considerately.  Etc.

We just don't want the stupid decisions anymore.  We are ok with "innovative," "aggressive" at times... sure.  How about just stop doing things that are so dumb that TATErs can see it right away?  You have a probowl player in his prime.  You don't outright cut him mid contract.  You have, at long last, a franchise QB, whom you have just signed to a record contract, but you also have an aging team and many needs.  You don't draft another quarterback in the second round.  You can look back and even bad teams like the Browns, Jaguars, Lions etc. don't do things like this.

We also want to be great at drafting.  At least good.... good or great.  Occasional bad draft?  OK.  Multiple bad drafts?  Draft decision that were known to be bad at the time?  Repeating the same mistakes?  We want the team to do what is right and turn over the leadership.  Hold someone accountable for performance, please, in what is the most important function of the team and predictor of future success.  

I realize I'm talking out of turn here, speaking for anyone else but myself, but these views are shared by my own friends who support the team.  Not sure how every poster here thinks about it... but I'm hoping you might see why there is no support anymore for the current personnel leadership structure we have, and why people struggle to understand why you have such strong continued support for it.  We have to want better than what they have done.  There must be a higher standard than this.

began in 2014 around the drafting of Marcus smith and that draft. It deteriorated as the season went along and after the season he lost power except to do contract. That’s what most reports talk about when the rift began. So howie still had power in 2014. It might not be what it was today but he wasn’t banished to the basement yet. So i don’t think desean was strictly chip Kelly. The eagles nearly let reid get rid of desean prior to chip being here and that was reported after desean was let go. 

2 minutes ago, aptosbird said:

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around what must have been discussed between the "brain trust" and Sirianni about the QB position. I seriously doubt there was mutual agreement about getting rid of both QB's.....what new coach would sign up for that? I am guessing there was discussion about moving on from Wentz...again...what new coach would agree to joining the team without some input and knowledge about Wentz's departure?

 

I am going to guess the removal of Wentz was on the table when Sirianni was hired, but I would also guess that Plan B would also have been discussed. They need a new QB to compete with Hurts or so I would assume. Was plan B to draft a QB this year? Who knows....there certainly is enough room for speculation on this...the possibility of drafting a round #2 QB followed by a Round #1 in consecutive years ...what a  mess? Can't wait to see how this plays out....

Unless they gave him carte blanche to get his QB this year in the draft... but that would be a massive slap to Howie's ego.   Of course... he'll just blame it all on Doug.  That's the way it works around here.    Wentz failed... Doug's fault.  Drafted Hurts in the 2nd round... Doug's idea.   

Then, he drafts a QB at #6 (or even trades up to get a QB)?   Sirianni's idea.     

 

Again, when it comes to Howie and his shift of blame and his consensus building... if everyone else is always to blame...
 

Hey, Howie...

 

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

It basically wasn’t a 4th.  It was a 3rd.  How can you argue otherwise?

Nah.. afan has already discounted any pick after 100 as basically meaningless.   So, #103, while still in the 3rd round, is not a meaningless pick and should be frittered away on whatever the flavor of the month is for Howie that particular year. 

 

4 hours ago, John_C said:

Unequivocally, YES.  There are many reasons why they will do this...  besides the transition from NFL football team trying to compete for championships to QB Factory.

The current Lowie programming will enable them to justify almost any move for a QB, including a trade up mortgaging future resources.  

Also, don't dismiss how badly Lowie will want to change the narrative on Wentz, Hurts and the train wreck they have caused here.  If they take one of the two top receivers, it will only continue that discussion.  "Wow, wonder what Wentz would have done with this.... looks like Hurts doesn't have the skill set to get this guy the ball... etc. etc."  If (when) they take a Justin Fields, they will duck or block and transition every question (even the "what's different this time") into how excited they are to have a new guy.

If we are up at pick 6 and nobody wants to trade up with us and Sewell is off the board, what pick would stop your complaining because this is where we are at right now ? You be the GM, we are all listening

 

54 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Lol. Where did i say coaches werent to blame? All season i blamed doug for not being better on his coaches and press Taylor and even groh the year before. However I’m not dumb enough to believe howie and lurie who were pulling strings about who to retain and who to fire have no part in a deterioration fo a coaching staff.

So let me get this straight, the two guys who hired Schwartz before they even hired doug had noooooothing to do with coaching staff hires and promotions only doug is responsible.

Meanwhile reports of howie and lurie wanted to fire Frank reich after 2016. So if Doug didn’t pound the table to keep reich they would’ve lost him before the SB run. But yes I’m to believe howie and lurie never got involved in coaching staff decisions... 

I appreciate your narratives you keep coming up. But hey you know more than mosher, caplan, maaddi and McManus who’ve shared the same sentiment i have that they’ve gotten from their sources that it would be an organizational failure of howie, lurie, doug with the decline of the coaching staff. 

 

I don't know how much Howie and Lurie were involved in all the coaching hires. What I do know is that said staff won a Super  Bowl. Reich and Defillippo left - they weren't fired. Blaming Howie and Lurie for coaching failures after their departure is like blaming Reid and Bannner - it was Banner after all who brought Howie in to begin with and he would not have been promoted to GM without Reid's approval. 

It's time for Howie to go - we agree on that - and if Lurie can't bring himself to fire "his son" then promote him out of football operations. I just don't think it's necessary to blame Howie (or Lurie) for 911.

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's an interesting question... and one that I considered long ago, as a kid.   There were rumors of Leonard Tose taking the team to Phoenix to help with his debt issues... I decided then and there that if they left, I would never root for them again.  I hate teams that leave, because doing so is just a slap in the face to the faithful fans.   (A team that has no fans and can't support itself, is different...)  But, the Eagles were always supported and the only reason that he was in money troubles was his own alcohol and gambling addictions.  Norman Braman then bought the team, and kept them here and right after that the St. Louis Cardinals left for Phoenix.   Braman was absolutely awful, but at least the team stayed.   Lurie bought them about a decade later, and things turned around.   Lurie is better than Braman.  But, recently, he's gone far too much along the lines of a Jerry Jones, though he'd never admit it.  If Lurie moved the team out of the Greater Philadelphia area, they would be public enemy number 1 to me.  That's betrayal, and they would have no loyalty from me.  

 

It's one of the reasons that I hate the Baltimore Ravens and all things Art Modell.   He ripped that franchise away from a loyal fan base, because he wasn't able to extort the city for a new stadium, and wouldn't put up his own money for it.  I was so proud of that fanbase for suing the NFL over it to maintain their history, name, logo, etc.   

I grew up a Houston Oilers fan.  I am not a Tennessee Titans fan. Hate the Adams family.  When I moved to PA, the Oilers were still "my” team.  This was before NFL ticket so I rarely got to see them play.  On local cable in the mid state we got Steelers, wasteam and the Eagles.  As an Oilers fan, I could never root for the Steelers, although I respected how the team was run.  I didn’t live in DC, MD or VA so, although the wasteam fans hated the cowpads as much as I do, Eagles were a PA team so I cheered for them. A couple years later when Bud moved the Oilers, I was done with that team.  I really couldn’t understand local fans that switched allegiances to the Ravens when Modell moved the team.  I could understand somewhat the folks down in Baltimore adopting the team but not PA residents. Especially after the midnight move of the Colts.  

59 minutes ago, metal said:

You mean you haven't started yet?

You mean some people actually stop?

23 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Why do people focus on arm strength -

Because ..... if Hurts had enough arm strength he’d have completed a TD pass to Goedert near the end of the ARI game to win, instead of lose?  Or when Quez Watkins was wide open in the end zone and Hurts didn’t want to take a hit to make an important play, a stronger arm might still have gotten the ball there instead of bouncing it into the ground?

Gotta get the ball there — whether it’s anticipation, ball placement, scheme, whatever.  Arm strength helps facilitate all of it.

When NFL evaluators quit testing for it then it might be an indication it’s not important.

56 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I left out that both Zach Wilson and Justin Fields have faces just as punchable as Josh Rosen

No - Zach Wilson is the all time punchable face champ

10 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

I don't know how much Howie and Lurie were involved in all the coaching hires. What I do know is that said staff won a Super  Bowl. Reich and Defillippo left - they weren't fired. Blaming Howie and Lurie for coaching failures after their departure is like blaming Reid and Bannner - it was Banner after all who brought Howie in to begin with and he would not have been promoted to GM without Reid's approval. 

It's time for Howie to go - we agree on that - and if Lurie can't bring himself to fire "his son" then promote him out of football operations. I just don't think it's necessary to blame Howie (or Lurie) for 911.

just pointing out there was a story lurie and howie wanted to fire reich at the end of 2016. So they were fortunate enough doug had some sway to nix that idea. So I’m not pretending they are the end all be all in coaching staff regression and hires. but they are definitely involved in it. I don’t believe they didn’t have any say in coaching hires and promotions. Heck they hired Schwartz before doug and doug was forced with him  

I’m blaming all of them. I blame doug. I blame poor coaching. I blame wentz. I blame howie. I blame Lurie. I blame the entire organization. it is a organizational failure. To me i thought all 3 should have been gone and start this whole thing over cause I’d don’t think Carson was salvageable here due to structure 

18 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

It basically wasn’t a 4th.  It was a 3rd.  How can you argue otherwise?

Pick 103 was a 4th round pick literally the year before.

Just now, Nivraga said:

No - Zach Wilson is the all time punchable face champ

Are you old enough to remember when bars used to have ‘punch in the face’ contests?

7 minutes ago, The guy in France said:

If we are up at pick 6 and nobody wants to trade up with us and Sewell is off the board, what pick would stop your complaining because this is where we are at right now ? You be the GM, we are all listening

 

I'm not the GM.  I can throw a name out there just like you can or anyone here can.  It's not about one pick.  It's about having the right people in place to make decisions toward building a team that can compete for a championship.  If I had to do the draft this year, I would be extremely reluctant to use the 6 or any pick on a QB.  In a total rebuild, I would focus on adding difference makers at any position, with a particular focus on the offensive and defensive lines.

What will stop my complaining?  Easy.  The owner comes forward, admits he needs to make changes, hires and empowers a real NFL GM, and we can have a fresh start.  Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but what has been going on with the Eagles is a train wreck.  Most precipitous decline of an SB winner with a young QB I can think of.

I've mentioned that the Eagles are very likely taking a QB at 6 (or trade up).  Decades of watching the team have provided me with the ability to predict what they are doing or will do with some accuracy.  I'm just preparing those that don't see this for what is likely to happen.  Much like I tried to help those that seriously thought/hoped Wentz was coming back.

Hopefully whatever QB they take ends up being awesome.  Is that likely?  Not in my opinion.  

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

Are you old enough to remember when bars used to have ‘punch in the face’ contests?

How old is old enough - i'm at the very end of the boomers - but I don't really remember that.