7 hours ago, Green_Guinness said:

That's what I tend to point at is that both Mayfield and Murray in the same system rated as top 10 QBs in the draft yet Hurts was at best at top end 2nd Round and maybe later if Howie had not drafted him.  His whole college career he played with superior O talent to help him at both Bama and OU in regards to his competition so what kind of conclusions can you draw from that?  I want to see QBs under pressure while playing against solid competition and not ones who had it all vs 'lesser' competition.  Look, I don't hate on Hurts as it's not his responsibility for how this has all played out.  I'm sure he's a good kid with desire and fire, but he just IMO he just lacks the quality to be a SB QB.  This whole thing with the QBs has been F'd up by the FO.  They give up the farm for Wentz who gets hurt and Foles steps in to win the SB.  Next season Wentz again can't finish the season and Foles almost leads them to a SB run (maybe if Alshon doesn't drop that pass, but still leaks info to Josina  Anderson).  They fail to provide their franchise QB with the weapons he needs to be successful so draft a safety net with a 2nd Round pick (unprecedented) and then an atrocious season of injuries and just poor overall play.  This is an institutional failure.  Across the board on all accounts.  From top to bottom.  The problem is the 2 most responsible are still in their same positions and at the top of the pyramid.   And ish rolls downhill.  Until the A1 understands the SB was more a one-off fluke and he really didn't have say in it while his minion had very little say in it then we are F'd since they think they are the most clever guys in the room for finally coming up 7s on the craps table.

Works both ways, Mayfield and Murray worked their way through Oklahoma to a starting job.

Murray had a transfer year, cameo in his second year, then started one season.

Mayfield transferred from Texas Tech, sat for a year then started 3 seasons. Last two seasons were exceptional, but after two years in the system.

Hurts transferred, started immediately without a year or two to learn the system, yet put up similar numbers to the other two who went #1.

So while he didn't have the physical attributes of the other two, he showed the ability to quickly pick up and execute a new scheme. Similar to Russell Wilson, who did the same thing in college. Physically he's more like Dak, who fell in the draft b/c he "lacked" the sexy arm. Prescott's QBR in Dallas:  77.6, 69.9, 55.2, 71.9, that's top ten performance. Now Dak has had a lot of talent in Dallas, solid OL, top WRs, top RB though Witten had been fading. Oh yeah, they compared Dak to Tebow.

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2016dprescott.php

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/revisiting-dak-prescotts-scouting-report-work-in-progress-compares-to-tim-tebow/

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Wait.  I haven’t been following.  Are some criticizing a football coach for taking a vacation in February?  Is that really happening?

Don't read too much into it.  If you actually listened to the entire podcast, it was only mentioned for maybe 10 seconds and it wasn't stated in any sort of a "serious" fashion.  Basically "side chat". Most of everything else was relatively positive  on Sirianni and the new coaching staff.

 

Sirianni probably does need a vacation by now.

2 hours ago, John_C said:

Not sure is this was posted yesterday... another " league source” report

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/eagles-mailbag-stick-jalen-hurts-why-howie-roseman-still-power

 

I don't want Lurie to strip Howie of personnel again. I want Howie fired

If Ted Cruz  can go on vacation to Cancun while TX is freezing over , why cant Siranni take a little chill time ?

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Sirianni probably does need a vacation by now.

We're going to find out very quickly if he can coach, because if we're good it won't be because of roster talent.

5 minutes ago, RLC said:

We're going to find out very quickly if he can coach, because if we're good it won't be because of roster talent.

It’s worth mentioning that there are some differences between making a horrible roster less embarrassing with smoke, mirrors, and temporary motivation...versus building a dominant well-oiled machine.

Not saying Siri can or can’t do either/both of those things. I won’t bash the guy if he only wins 3 games, but I won’t lavish praise upon him if he stumbles to 6-7 wins in this division either.

I’m back and forth on what I want the Eagles to do in the draft. 
 

- I don’t think Hurts is the answer, not even close 

- Any QB they draft they’ll end up screwing up anyway 

- Need a playmaker at WR 

- If you are able to draft a guy you feel is a franchise level type QB and you don’t have one, take him. 
 

Either way I really don’t care that much 

TBH I think we're going to be better than people make it out.  Healthy OL, Goedert/Sanders/Reagor are all talented, unless we trade everyone away the DL should still be solid, NFC East should still blow, and while I'm not sold on Hurts I do think he has shown more than people give him credit for.

Unfortunately when I say "better" I'm thinking first round picks in the early to mid teens, which makes finding a franchise QB a lot harder. Hoping I'm wrong and either Hurts explodes or totally tanks, cause mediocrity could mean more Howie and meh picks over the next few years.

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

It’s worth mentioning that there are some differences between making a horrible roster less embarrassing with smoke, mirrors, and temporary motivation...versus building a dominant well-oiled machine.

Not saying Siri can or can’t do either/both of those things. I won’t bash the guy if he only wins 3 games, but I won’t lavish praise upon him if he stumbles to 6-7 wins in this division either.

There are signs of good coaching though

• Few penalties
• Good turnover differential
• Attacking opponent weaknesses
• Not asking players to play outside themselves (ex: asking Reagor to win 1 on 1 against Bradberry with a back-shoulder fade)

3 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

TBH I think we're going to be better than people make it out.  Healthy OL, Goedert/Sanders/Reagor are all talented, unless we trade everyone away the DL should still be solid, NFC East should still blow, and while I'm not sold on Hurts I do think he has shown more than people give him credit for.

Unfortunately when I say "better" I'm thinking first round picks in the early to mid teens, which makes finding a franchise QB a lot harder. Hoping I'm wrong and either Hurts explodes or totally tanks, cause mediocrity could mean more Howie and meh picks over the next few years.

Yep.  Don't count this team out next season, especially with the current status of the NFC East.  If Hurts comes out and plays out of his mind,. this could be a 9+ win team...and 9 wins could win the division.

 

6 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

TBH I think we're going to be better than people make it out.  Healthy OL, Goedert/Sanders/Reagor are all talented, unless we trade everyone away the DL should still be solid, NFC East should still blow, and while I'm not sold on Hurts I do think he has shown more than people give him credit for.

Unfortunately when I say "better" I'm thinking first round picks in the early to mid teens, which makes finding a franchise QB a lot harder. Hoping I'm wrong and either Hurts explodes or totally tanks, cause mediocrity could mean more Howie and meh picks over the next few years.

just looking at the division, there's not many great offensive teams, i think our defense is good enough to stop them, our offense need major upgrades.

8 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

TBH I think we're going to be better than people make it out.  Healthy OL, Goedert/Sanders/Reagor are all talented, unless we trade everyone away the DL should still be solid, NFC East should still blow, and while I'm not sold on Hurts I do think he has shown more than people give him credit for.

Unfortunately when I say "better" I'm thinking first round picks in the early to mid teens, which makes finding a franchise QB a lot harder. Hoping I'm wrong and either Hurts explodes or totally tanks, cause mediocrity could mean more Howie and meh picks over the next few years.

I don't think we have to worry about that.  I worry about this division more than anything else.  Makes it hard for a 3-win quality team to actually be a 3-win team.

Goedert/Sanders/Reagor might be the worst trio of weapons in the NFL.  I don't think we will have a healthy OL at all.  This time last year, our OL was a healthy Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks/Johnson.  Right now, our OL is Mailata/Seumalo/no one/rehabbing Brooks/rehabbing Lane.  

Their only chance of winning any individual game is the blueprint from wins in 2020.  Hope the team is missing their QB, hope Hurts runs for enough first downs and TDs.

6 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I’m back and forth on what I want the Eagles to do in the draft. 
 

- I don’t think Hurts is the answer, not even close 

- Any QB they draft they’ll end up screwing up anyway 

- Need a playmaker at WR 

- If you are able to draft a guy you feel is a franchise level type QB and you don’t have one, take him. 
 

Either way I really don’t care that much 

Kinda where I am.  I'm not a pro scout but none of the QB's outside of Lawrence look anything near franchise quarterbacks either.  Just silly to even consider one.

Just think, if they take a quarterback at 6 this year, this is their draft pick investment in quarterbacks since 2016

5 picks to acquire Carson Wentz

2016 1st, 3rd, 4th

2017 1st

2018 2nd

2019 5th to draft Clayton Thorson

2020 2nd to draft Jalen Hurts

If QB this year, 1st on QB and there's even the possibility they trade up for one.

That would be 8 draft picks (potentially more if move up) over the last 5 years used on a quarterback with more questions than answers.  2 of those quarterbacks aren't on the team anymore and you have $34 million in dead cap.  For a team that branded themselves as a quarterback factory this is a joke.

Please, do not draft a quarterback.  Roll with Hurts and see what he can do with a new staff, healthy o-line and hopefully better weapons around him.

The Lane/Brooks combo will last together for about as long as Desean did in 2020.

10 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

He desires consensus so he has individuals to blame.   It's not about consensus, it's about CYA.

Has he blamed any ? Just curious

I see the criticism but I can also see it working if done properly especially when targeting guys in the 3rd and later. The first this year too even if they trade back

16 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I’m back and forth on what I want the Eagles to do in the draft. 
 

- I don’t think Hurts is the answer, not even close 

- Any QB they draft they’ll end up screwing up anyway 

- Need a playmaker at WR 

- If you are able to draft a guy you feel is a franchise level type QB and you don’t have one, take him. 
 

Either way I really don’t care that much 

It all comes down to QB.

If I ran the team, I'd be fine with rolling with Hurts for 2021.  It's a throwaway season, see what he's got.  As a fan who doesn't trust the FO, I worry they are going to build their plans around him.  They are clueless.  So I grasp at any possibility to expose how bad of a passer he is or any rumor that they might go in a different direction at QB; I just want confirmation that they aren't deluding themselves with this guy.

It comes down to Fields/Wilson/Lance...throw in Mac Jones too.  I haven't watched enough of anyone to have a definitive opinion.  If you truly think one of them is going to be an elite passer, then do what it takes to get them.  If you don't...then use pick #6 (either the pick itself or via trade down) to stack up on roster talent.  Maybe take a mid-round flier QB this year.  And then try again in 2022 for the QB.  

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't think we have to worry about that.  I worry about this division more than anything else.  Makes it hard for a 3-win quality team to actually be a 3-win team.

Goedert/Sanders/Reagor might be the worst trio of weapons in the NFL.  I don't think we will have a healthy OL at all.  This time last year, our OL was a healthy Dillard/Seumalo/Kelce/Brooks/Johnson.  Right now, our OL is Mailata/Seumalo/no one/rehabbing Brooks/rehabbing Lane.  

Their only chance of winning any individual game is the blueprint from wins in 2020.  Hope the team is missing their QB, hope Hurts runs for enough first downs and TDs.

New England has a worse trio. If the bears lose Robinson, so do they. Houston, Jacksonville, San Diego, Giants, Lions if they lose Golloday.

3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Kinda where I am.  I'm not a pro scout but none of the QB's outside of Lawrence look anything near franchise quarterbacks either.  Just silly to even consider one.

Just think, if they take a quarterback at 6 this year, this is their draft pick investment in quarterbacks since 2016

5 picks to acquire Carson Wentz

2016 1st, 3rd, 4th

2017 1st

2018 2nd

2019 5th to draft Clayton Thorson

2020 2nd to draft Jalen Hurts

If QB this year, 1st on QB and there's even the possibility they trade up for one.

That would be 8 draft picks (potentially more if move up) over the last 5 years used on a quarterback with more questions than answers.  2 of those quarterbacks aren't on the team anymore and you have $34 million in dead cap.  For a team that branded themselves as a quarterback factory this is a joke.

Please, do not draft a quarterback.  Roll with Hurts and see what he can do with a new staff, healthy o-line and hopefully better weapons around him.

Eh I like Fields. Don’t know enough about anyone else, but I could get behind them drafting a QB. I don’t see Hurts doing anything. 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

It all comes down to QB.

If I ran the team, I'd be fine with rolling with Hurts for 2021.  It's a throwaway season, see what he's got.  As a fan who doesn't trust the FO, I worry they are going to build their plans around him.  They are clueless.  So I grasp at any possibility to expose how bad of a passer he is or any rumor that they might go in a different direction at QB; I just want confirmation that they aren't deluding themselves with this guy.

It comes down to Fields/Wilson/Lance...throw in Mac Jones too.  I haven't watched enough of anyone to have a definitive opinion.  If you truly think one of them is going to be an elite passer, then do what it takes to get them.  If you don't...then use pick #6 (either the pick itself or via trade down) to stack up on roster talent.  Maybe take a mid-round flier QB this year.  And then try again in 2022 for the QB.  

I think you’re implying this but I kind of like the idea of drafting a QB at 6 and redshirting him no matter what. 

14 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 

You could bring the same indictment on half the things Bowen and his colleagues are writing these days.

Let's see what Hurts can do, before jumping to conclusions. He has enough talent to be a starting NFL QB if he can master the mental part of the game.

The most important thing for the new coaching staff the first year is to identify and coach up talent, they have 4 picks in the top 100 the next two seasons, but building a roster requires finding 10-15 players each season, which means finding 6-11 guys in later rounds, UDFAs, SFAs. Teaching fundamentals is more important than sophisticated schemes (KISS for now with a young team) or clever game plans. The smartest coaches look dumb with players who can't execute their schemes (why HCs often push the GM to add veterans, less likely to make bad mistakes). So wins and losses are less important than say turning Fulgham into a consistent WR or teaching Hightower to hand catch and high point balls.

The second season is when installation of new schemes becomes a priority, getting everyone on the same page, and gradually adding nuances to the base schemes. Once the team is comfortable with the schemes, it's easier to work in young players b/c the players around them can guide them on the field, the first season it'll be more like the blind leading the blind.

They added a lot of young talent last year, they'll add a lot more the next two years, not every player has to be a star, with high picks they should be able to add 4-5 starters with high ceilings the next two years, but they also need solid starters, top reserves and ST types as well. If you find a few gems each season off the "trash heap" it accelerates the rebuild.

Rebuilds can be fun, with veteran teams at the end, when they come up short, hope is lost, during a rebuild, every flash of a young player developing brings hope for the future. As bad as last season turned out, watching Mailata maul people provided a glimpse of a brighter future.

Just now, austinfan said:

Let's see what Hurts can do, before jumping to conclusions. He has enough talent to be a starting NFL QB if he can master the mental part of the game.

The most important thing for the new coaching staff the first year is to identify and coach up talent, they have 4 picks in the top 100 the next two seasons, but building a roster requires finding 10-15 players each season, which means finding 6-11 guys in later rounds, UDFAs, SFAs. Teaching fundamentals is more important than sophisticated schemes (KISS for now with a young team) or clever game plans. The smartest coaches look dumb with players who can't execute their schemes (why HCs often push the GM to add veterans, less likely to make bad mistakes). So wins and losses are less important than say turning Fulgham into a consistent WR or teaching Hightower to hand catch and high point balls.

The second season is when installation of new schemes becomes a priority, getting everyone on the same page, and gradually adding nuances to the base schemes. Once the team is comfortable with the schemes, it's easier to work in young players b/c the players around them can guide them on the field, the first season it'll be more like the blind leading the blind.

They added a lot of young talent last year, they'll add a lot more the next two years, not every player has to be a star, with high picks they should be able to add 4-5 starters with high ceilings the next two years, but they also need solid starters, top reserves and ST types as well. If you find a few gems each season off the "trash heap" it accelerates the rebuild.

Rebuilds can be fun, with veteran teams at the end, when they come up short, hope is lost, during a rebuild, every flash of a young player developing brings hope for the future. As bad as last season turned out, watching Mailata maul people provided a glimpse of a brighter future.

No one is doubting his mental ability, it’s his arm talent. Plain and simple. That’s why he got benched at halftime in a championship game for a guy who has average NFL arm talent. 

16 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

New England has a worse trio. If the bears lose Robinson, so do they. Houston, Jacksonville, San Diego, Giants, Lions if they lose Golloday.

Let's not get carried away here.  

Dallas Goedert and Jalen Reagor combined for a whopping 920 yards and 4 TDs in 2020, combined stats that wouldn't even make a young Jordan Matthews jealous.

Jacksonville: Chark/Shenault: 1306 yards 10 TDs

Giants top 2: 1407 yards 6 TDs

Houston: Cooks/Fuller: 2029 yards 14 TDs

LAC: Allen/Williams: 1748 yards 13 TDs

Bears and Lions haven't lost Robinson and Golloday yet, so they aren't in the discussion.

 

And Miles Sanders is not a sufficiently special or durable back that he changes the complexion of having the worst pass targets in the NFL (neck and neck with the Pats) into having anything but a bottom 2 trio of weapons.

2 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

No one is doubting his mental ability, it’s his arm talent. Plain and simple. That’s why he got benched at halftime in a championship game for a guy who has average NFL arm talent. 

He has arm strength, and he improved substantially at Oklahoma, memo to fans, young players often improve by leaps and bounds.

We'll see if the new staff can coach him up, but even last year, you can see he has nice touch on his longer passes, some beautiful throws - the key is consistency and mastering the mental part of the NFL game. If he can be average in the pocket, then his legs become a serious weapon b/c you can't focus on stopping him from running - if he's a one read/run QB, then he has a limited future. But this holds for almost every QB you draft these days, how many play in the pro style offense in college? That's one reason they wanted Wentz.